HisChildForever Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='13 December 2009 - 05:15 PM' timestamp='1260742527' post='2019855'] In Christianity, there is something to gain, your reward of heaven. [/quote] I am not a Christian because I want a reward. I am a Christian because God came to earth, suffered great persecution, and died for me. Doing what He expects of me is the least thing I can do. Heaven is not a "reward" - Heaven is where I will continue to glorify and praise Him. Everything is for Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='13 December 2009 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1260742851' post='2019864'] Not everything is relative. Logic is based on what exists. The world exists, the function of nature exists. Their processes aren't relative. [/quote] Then human beings have created relativity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='13 December 2009 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1260742983' post='2019865'] I am not a Christian because I want a reward. I am a Christian because God came to earth, suffered great persecution, and died for me. Doing what He expects of me is the least thing I can do. Heaven is not a "reward" - Heaven is where I will continue to glorify and praise Him. Everything is for Him. [/quote] Good for you. But I'm just saying, if you choose to die instead of renouncing your beliefs, you will be rewarded. You will also be forgiven if you renounce your beliefs for the sake of keeping your life. [quote name='HisChildForever' date='13 December 2009 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1260743026' post='2019866'] Then human beings have created relativity? [/quote] I never said that. Relativity exists where things cannot be known completely without some kind of supernatural knowledge. You can claim objectivity because you trust that your god is all knowing. I can't claim that because i don't know everything and never will. I can use what I see in the world to try and understand it, but I can never claim to know anything for certain, outside of the use of the reasoning I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='13 December 2009 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1260743160' post='2019867'] I never said that. Relativity exists where things cannot be known completely without some kind of supernatural knowledge. You can claim objectivity because you trust that your god is all knowing. I can't claim that because i don't know everything and never will. I can use what I see in the world to try and understand it, but I can never claim to know anything for certain, outside of the use of the reasoning I have. [/quote] God gave you that reasoning...for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='13 December 2009 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1260742662' post='2019860'] I live according to what I believe. I don't see why not dying for it means I didn't live it. Not everyone who lived what they believed also died for it. [/quote] Actually what's more true is this you define yourself as an atheist so therefore You define yourself by what you don't believe. You live your life according to what you don't believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varg Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='13 December 2009 - 05:23 PM' timestamp='1260742983' post='2019865'] I am not a Christian because I want a reward. I am a Christian because God came to earth, suffered great persecution, and died for me. Doing what He expects of me is the least thing I can do. Heaven is not a "reward" - Heaven is where I will continue to glorify and praise Him. Everything is for Him. [/quote] My theory is that there would be a great deal less Christians if it weren't for the promise of eternal reward. Edited December 13, 2009 by Varg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='Varg' date='13 December 2009 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1260743890' post='2019874'] My theory is that there would be a great deal less Christians if it weren't for the promise of eternal reward. [/quote] You'd be wrong. There are a billion Catholics and none of us have been promised anything. Just that an eternal reward exists if God grants it to us, it's through his mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varg Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='Varg' date='13 December 2009 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1260743890' post='2019874'] My theory is that there would be a great deal less Christians if it weren't for the promise of eternal reward. [/quote] I also think that there would be less Christians if people fully realized just what Christ calls them to do. In today's culture, people like to water down Christ's message. But wait, you're not insisting that the validity of the Christian message is based off the number of adherents, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varg Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='Gregorius' date='13 December 2009 - 05:42 PM' timestamp='1260744154' post='2019878'] But wait, you're not insisting that the validity of the Christian message is based off the number of adherents, are you? [/quote]No, I never said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='12 December 2009 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1260662984' post='2019411'] Watch it. I think there are many people, even here, who would be offended by your inference that mental illness somehow makes someone's opinions less valid. [/quote] I guess they'll have to take offense, then. Mental illness impedes rationality, and an objective assesment of reality. That's just the way it is. Philosophers use reason to describe reality. If a philosopher is severely mentally ill, that raises serious doubts about their argument. The word, "valid" that you use, is loaded. I reject your premise that referring to the loss of rational perspective inherent in mental illness somehow "puts down" the mentally ill or "invalidates" them. Rather, I am somewhat offended that you think having an irrational point of view "invalidates" opinions. A person in a full blown psychotic episode still has opinions, none of which are "less valid" than those of a rational person. Tsk, tsk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='Varg' date='13 December 2009 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1260744254' post='2019880'] No, I never said that. [/quote] Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 [quote name='Varg' date='13 December 2009 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1260743890' post='2019874'] My theory is that there would be a great deal less Christians if it weren't for the promise of eternal reward. [/quote] the reward is here and now, silly. remember he golden rule on earth as it is in heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='13 December 2009 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1260744292' post='2019881'] Rather, I am somewhat offended that you think having an irrational point of view "invalidates" opinions. A person in a full blown psychotic episode still has opinions, none of which are "less valid" than those of a rational person. Tsk, tsk. [/quote] Jumpin' Odin on a pogo stick. If one's opinion is wrong, it's invalid. Insane opinions are invalid. Egalitarianism is insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 [quote name='Winchester' date='13 December 2009 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1260750800' post='2019941'] Jumpin' Odin on a pogo stick. If one's opinion is wrong, it's invalid. Insane opinions are invalid. Egalitarianism is insanity. [/quote] Noooo, it's unsound, not invalid. Saying "all cats have four legs. That animal is a cat, therefore it has four legs, is valid, but not necessarily sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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