Does Islam Require A Literal Reading Of The Qu'ran

[jonyelmony]

In this topic I am not making any arguments for or against Literal interpretation of any Holy Scriptures or for and against Islam as a whole, this is an honest question. Really I am not sure this should really be in Debate Table but this is where our muslim visitors are.

I am basically asking whether the back story of the Qu'ran being recited to Muhammad by the Arch-Angel allows for any interpretation other than a literal one. I look forward to fiding out!

Edited December 11, 2009 by jonyelmony

[Pomak]

[quote name='jonyelmony' date='11 December 2009 - 01:44 PM' timestamp='1260499464' post='2018065']
In this topic I am not making any arguments for or against Literal interpretation of any Holy Scriptures or for and against Islam as a whole, this is an honest question. Really I am not sure this should really be in Debate Table but this is where our muslim visitors are.

I am basically asking whether a book recited directly by an Angel can be taken any way other than literally. I look forward to fiding out!
[/quote]
Yes. Part of our problem is with those who take literal readings of Quran and ignore context or metaphorical meanings.

[extempers]

[quote name='jonyelmony' date='10 December 2009 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1260499464' post='2018065']
In this topic I am not making any arguments for or against Literal interpretation of any Holy Scriptures or for and against Islam as a whole, this is an honest question. Really I am not sure this should really be in Debate Table but this is where our muslim visitors are.

I am basically asking whether the back story of the Qu'ran being recited to Muhammad by the Arch-Angel allows for any interpretation other than a literal one. I look forward to fiding out!
[/quote]

The back story is literal and the Qur'an is the literal word of God.

However, whether to take all of it literally or metaphorically is different.
For example, does God sit on the Throne like it says in the Qur'an.

Some say follow the literal and He does indeed sit on the Throne.
Others say it is metaphorical and it is LIKE He is sitting on the Throne.

These differences are minor though, because the concept is still understood but with different parameters.

As Pomak said, there is also context behind each verse. Meaning you cannot take a verse and just act upon it and be on the right path.
This is also why we have the ahadith/saying of the Prophet Muhammad (s) as well as the seerah/history. It gives a much deeper scope of each particular verse.


So in the Christian context of literalism, then yes we believe the Qur'an is the literal word of God because the message has never been distorted, mistranslated or lost to "copyist errors", but one cannot just read a verse, especially regarding laws, and understand completely.

Edited December 11, 2009 by extempers

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1260503630' post='2018118']
Some say follow the literal and He does indeed sit on the Throne.
Others say it is metaphorical and it is LIKE He is sitting on the Throne.
[/quote]

In general, how do you know which is the correct interpretation?

[jonyelmony]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1260503630' post='2018118']
The back story is literal and the Qur'an is the literal word of God.

However, whether to take all of it literally or metaphorically is different.
For example, does God sit on the Throne like it says in the Qur'an.

Some say follow the literal and He does indeed sit on the Throne.
Others say it is metaphorical and it is LIKE He is sitting on the Throne.

These differences are minor though, because the concept is still understood but with different parameters.

As Pomak said, there is also context behind each verse. Meaning you cannot take a verse and just act upon it and be on the right path.
This is also why we have the ahadith/saying of the Prophet Muhammad (s) as well as the seerah/history. It gives a much deeper scope of each particular verse.


So in the Christian context of literalism, then yes we believe the Qur'an is the literal word of God because the message has never been distorted, mistranslated or lost to "copyist errors", but one cannot just read a verse, especially regarding laws, and understand completely.
[/quote]

The Catholic perspective is that the bible is wholly the word of God, the reason we are not literalist is more to do with the same things you have described regarding metaphor, genre, purpose and contect (what is truth) than arguments about mistranslation or "copyist errors".

My question I suppose is really to do with how parts of the Qu'ran are contextualy different. While say I belive both the Gospels are all entirley inspired by God, I know that they were written for different audiences and at different periods in Christianity. Similarly, the reason why St Paul writes his epistles is important for to understand the truth that God has given to St Paul. Isn't the Qu'Ran all written in the same context?

Edited December 11, 2009 by jonyelmony

[jonyelmony]

But don't get me wrong I sort of see the stupidity in what i am suggesting in my original question. Of course God is able to able to use metaphorical and poetical language when reciting directly his holy book.

[Pomak]

[quote]Isn't the Qu'Ran all written in the same context? [/quote]
Some verses were revealed for specific reasons. For example there are verse talking about how you should fight. Some are general, while other are responses to particular aggression by Pagans/Jews.

Some verses were written during the Meccan period, while others were done during the Medina period.

This is what we mean by context of revelation.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Pomak

[jonyelmony]

[quote name='Pomak' date='11 December 2009 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1260514482' post='2018260']
Some verses were revealed for specific reasons. For example there are verse talking about how you should fight. Some are general, while other are responses to particular aggression by Pagans/Jews.

Some verses were written during the Meccan period, while others were done during the Medina period.

This is what we mean by context of revelation.
[/quote]

Thankyou.

[rayz]

Some verses are taken literally while some others in the context. It's not that Islam requires literal interpretation or not. There are guidelines and demarcations when it comes to interpreting Quran, layed out by Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). Infact almost every aspect of the Quran is well defined and preserved since the begining. Even the style of verbal recitation (for example which vowel is to be elongated ) is narrated since the time of the Prophet.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 10:56 PM' timestamp='1260503771' post='2018122']
In general, how do you know which is the correct interpretation?
[/quote]


Usually various external forces have some general causal influence and lead to one aggregate of opinions being favored over others.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 08:56 PM' timestamp='1260503771' post='2018122']
In general, how do you know which is the correct interpretation?
[/quote]
You can look at the creeds of the schools. For example, the creed of Hanbal affirms the literal reality of the Basin of Mohammad, the Bridge, etc., see below:


[i]The Creed of Hanbal[/i]

(6a) The one-eyed Dajjal (an evil figure similar to the anti-Christ) will undoubtedly appear, he is the greatest of liars.
(6b) The punishment of the tomb is a reality; a person will be questioned about his religion and his Lord, and about Paradise and Hell. Munkar (an angel) and Nakir (an angel) are a reality; they are the two interrogators of the tomb. We ask Allah for steadfastness.
(6c) The Basin of Mohammad is a reality; his community will go to drink there; there are vessels with which they will drink from it.
(6d) The Bridge is a reality. It is set stretching over Gehenna. People pass over it and Paradise is beyond it. We ask Allah for safety in crossing.
(6e) The Balance is a reality. In it are weighed good deeds and evil deeds, as Allah wills they should be weighed.
(6f) The Trumpet is a reality. Israfil (an angel) blows on it and created beings die. Then he blows on it a second blast and they are raised before the Lord of the Worlds for the reckoning of the decree, and reward and punishment, and Paradise and Hell.
(6g) The Preserved Tablet is a reality. From it the works of human beings are copied (or given their form) because of the determinations and the decree already contained in it.
(6h) The Pen is a reality. With it God wrote the determinations of everything and mentioned each explicitly.

[Apotheoun]

Most of the creeds I have read affirm the literal reality of the things affirmed of allah in the Quran, but add that one must simply accept these things as real without trying to determine the manner (or mode) of their existence.

[Pomak]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='12 December 2009 - 12:07 AM' timestamp='1260536858' post='2018312']
Most of the creeds I have read affirm the literal reality of the things affirmed of allah in the Quran, but add that one must simply accept these things as real without trying to determine the manner (or mode) of their existence.
[/quote]
This is the most widely accepted book on Muslim creed http://www.zaytuna.org/tahawibook.asp

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Pomak' date='11 December 2009 - 08:38 AM' timestamp='1260545900' post='2018384']
This is the most widely accepted book on Muslim creed http://www.zaytuna.org/tahawibook.asp
[/quote]
I have various copies of early Islamic creeds already, but thank you for the link to the book . . . it looks quite interesting.

[extempers]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='11 December 2009 - 08:02 AM' timestamp='1260536541' post='2018310']
You can look at the creeds of the schools. For example, the creed of Hanbal affirms the literal reality of the Basin of Mohammad, the Bridge, etc., see below:


[i]The Creed of Hanbal[/i]

(6a) The one-eyed Dajjal (an evil figure similar to the anti-Christ) will undoubtedly appear, he is the greatest of liars.
(6b) The punishment of the tomb is a reality; a person will be questioned about his religion and his Lord, and about Paradise and Hell. Munkar (an angel) and Nakir (an angel) are a reality; they are the two interrogators of the tomb. We ask Allah for steadfastness.
(6c) The Basin of Mohammad is a reality; his community will go to drink there; there are vessels with which they will drink from it.
(6d) The Bridge is a reality. It is set stretching over Gehenna. People pass over it and Paradise is beyond it. We ask Allah for safety in crossing.
(6e) The Balance is a reality. In it are weighed good deeds and evil deeds, as Allah wills they should be weighed.
(6f) The Trumpet is a reality. Israfil (an angel) blows on it and created beings die. Then he blows on it a second blast and they are raised before the Lord of the Worlds for the reckoning of the decree, and reward and punishment, and Paradise and Hell.
(6g) The Preserved Tablet is a reality. From it the works of human beings are copied (or given their form) because of the determinations and the decree already contained in it.
(6h) The Pen is a reality. With it God wrote the determinations of everything and mentioned each explicitly.
[/quote]

What book are you sourcing from? This is not really a creed, but a description of things found near/on the Day of Judgment.
And I'm pretty sure every single Muslim believes in them literally.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='extempers' date='11 December 2009 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1260563567' post='2018589']
What book are you sourcing from? This is not really a creed, but a description of things found near/on the Day of Judgment. [/quote]
I only quoted a portion of the creed of Hanbal.

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=uSjYAAAAMAAJ&q=islamic+creeds&dq=islamic+creeds&num=100&cd=1"]Islamic Creeds: A Selection[/url]

[quote name='extempers' date='11 December 2009 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1260563567' post='2018589']
And I'm pretty sure every single Muslim believes in them literally.
[/quote]
Yes, I know that, and I thought I made that clear in the post following the one you quoted: "Most of the creeds I have read affirm the literal reality of the things affirmed of allah in the Quran, but add that one must simply accept these things as real without trying to determine the manner (or mode) of their existence."

[Winchester]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='11 December 2009 - 08:02 AM' timestamp='1260536541' post='2018310']

The one-eyed Dajjal[/quote]
Sounds like something from Harry Potter.
Ron: It's a one-eyed Dajjal. Knickers.
Harry: Tea and crumpets.
Snape: I kill Dumbeldore lol.

[extempers]

The question on the "correct interpretation" can go really deep and cover a HUGE amount of material as well as several Islamic sciences such.

But to basically answer, the hadith/sayings are used to further bring out the message of the verses.
The seerah/history is used to give background story to revelation.
The consensus of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (s)takes it a step further.
The scholars of the companions go one more.
The tafsir/commentary brings all of this together. The most famous is by Ibn Kathir, but probably the most difficult to read.

I.e. there's a LOT to be read. A famous scholar wrote several volumes of books just based on one verse of the Qur'an and it was not some fluff or tangential read.


For the vast majority of the Qur'an as well as major tenets of Islam, there is only one interpretation and that is repeatedly supported in all those steps mentioned (and then some).

But since arabic is such a rich language, one can translate one word in so many different ways. One can also prioritize the steps different (although qur'an and hadith always go 1st and 2nd).

And so begins the science of "fiqh" or jurisprudence.
Within this science there are 5 major schools, 4 sunni and 1 shia, which were led by one imam and codified into a "madhab"/school by major scholars later.

For your purposes, these schools are not that significant because the differences are so minor.
I.e. when praying there is a certain position where you raise your finger. How this finger is raised differs school to school.


Because there has been so much written in so much in detail on so many levels, there is no possible way for someone to claim with validity a new "interpretation".

Hopefully this answers your question

[Apotheoun]

Also the principle I mentioned - [i]bila kayf[/i], i.e., the principle of not trying to determine the mode or manner of existence of anthropomorphic references in connection with allah - is accepted, as far as I know, by all the schools of thought in Islam.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Pomak]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='12 December 2009 - 07:55 AM' timestamp='1260564944' post='2018610']
Also the principle I mentioned - [i]bila kayf[/i], i.e., the principle of not trying to determine the mode or manner of existence of anthropomorphic references in connection with allah - is accepted, as far as I know, by all the schools of thought in Islam.
[/quote]

Isn't this the athari position?