I've Been Ordered To Leave

[hyperdulia again]

She said something in the Village Voice about how the media was wrong for blaming the Pope for the molestation crisis, not the same thing as defending, but not the same thing as attacking.

[hyperdulia again]

Hyper the people in the article are a bunch of jerks.

If they leave the Lord of the Universe and His church  because they are asked not to sin in a certain way, how serious were they ever about being Catholic?

Does not the Church call all of us to give up our own particular sin? If she ever stopped telling us to sin, would she still be the Catholic Church? Would that not be the end of the world?

true enough, true enough.

[cmotherofpirl]

Hyper you might like this guy Andy but he is dead wrong on several of the blogs he wrote. He supports Kerrys attack on the Church.

Sen. John F. Kerry yesterday said Pope John Paul II ``crossed the line'' by instructing pols to block legalization of gay marriage.

A fuming Kerry, taking on his own Catholic Church in the midst of a campaign for president, said Rome should have more respect for America's long-held separation of church and state.

``It is important not to have the church instructing politicians. That is an inappropriate crossing of the line in this country,'' Kerry said. ``President Kennedy drew that line very clearly in 1960 and I believe we need to stand up for that line today.''

The Democrat said political concerns are secondary to his moral outrage over Thursday's Vatican statement on gay marriage.

``Our founding fathers separated church and state in America. It is an important separation,'' he said. ``It is part of what makes America different and special, and we need to honor that as we go forward and I'm going to fight to do that.''

Catholics were stunned at the broadside from Kerry, saying he's sure to draw the ire of some 65 million voting Catholics.

``What one often calls separation of church and state guarantees the religion the right to express its convictions,'' said Monsignor Francis Maniscalco of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. ``To object to religious people's deep moral convictions . . . would also create a problem because it would also (fail to) recognize something the First Amendment guarantees.''

Former Vatican Ambassador Raymond Flynn said Kerry was just wrong. ``I don't see it as crossing any line at all,'' Flynn said. ``Too many Catholic politicians want to have it both ways, they want the Catholic vote but then they go ahead and ignore Catholic teaching.''

The Vatican injected itself into the simmering gay marriage debate Thursday, firing off a letter issuing instructions to Catholic politicians to oppose any legalization efforts.

``The Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition (to gay marriage laws) clearly and publicly and to vote against it,'' the directive read. ``To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral.''

The statement followed by a day strong comments from President Bush denouncing gay marriage proposals.

Kerry, who supports civil unions but opposes the legalization of same-sex marriage, took pains to say, ``I believe in the church'' and ``care about it enormously'' but said church leaders went too far.

Alone among Democrats in criticizing the church, Kerry said he didn't weigh the political impact of his statement.

``This isn't a matter of political calculation, it's simply a matter of strong personal beliefs,'' Kerry said.

The Democratic senator also railed against Republicans who this week said Democratic efforts to block the judicial nomination of Alabama Attorney General William H. Pryor were anti-Catholic. One group, the Ave Maria List, ran print ads equating Democrats' opposition to Pryor as saying ``Catholics need not apply'' to the federal judiciary.

``That couldn't be further from the truth. This judge is not a good judge,'' Kerry said. ``He should not be appointed to the court, and many of us who are Catholic voted against him without regard to Catholicism.''

Kerry also continued his criticism of Bush's ``faith-based'' programs, saying he would end government funding to any religious group.

The White House and Kerry's opponents declined comment.

But the Republican National Committee blamed the sudden attack on the growing popularity of Kerry opponent, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean.

``It seems like a very odd political strategy to attack the Catholic Church but Howard Dean is forcing Sen. Kerry to take a number of odd positions on a number of odd issues,'' said RNC spokeswoman Christine Iverson.

Kerry and Andy are dead wrong on this issue. If you say you are a Catholic politican, and look for the Catholic vote you better uphold the teachings of the Church. You are a CATHOLIC before you are a Republican , Domocrat or American.

[hyperdulia again]

i didn't say he was right about everything, or even the kind of catholic we should consider to be a role model, but he did keep me in when i was about to get out.

[marielapin]

DONAHUE: Now our church finds itself in the worst scandal in its history. I’m having trouble processing all of this.

O’DONNELL: And you should. Every human should. Every priest should. Every spiritual person should. You cannot hide behind the cloak of the Catholic church and accept-expect to be exempt from the laws of nature and God. You can’t. And this is a disgrace that has gone generations back. And you know what? It needs to be out in the forefront. I really hope that the Catholic church gets sued until the end of time. Maybe, you know, we can melt down some of the gold toilets in the pope’s Vatican and pay off some of the lawsuits because, you know, frankly, the whole tenet of Christianity, of being pious, of living a Christ-like life, has been lost in Catholicism, I believe. And this whole scandal is so devastating spiritually, emotionally, physically, and it’s going to be financially for the Catholic church, as well.

DONAHUE: Are you raising your kids Catholic?

O’DONNELL: No.

DONAHUE: Well, I think you speak for a growing number of Catholics. It’s the nature of what’s happening right now. You know, I think of my parents. And I want my parents to be here, as we all do. If there is any redeeming value here, my mother never saw this. And I am so grateful.

O’DONNELL: Yes.

DONAHUE: I mean, the church was the center of our lives.

O’DONNELL: Yes. The whole life.

DONAHUE: Monsignor. And then when the monsignor would come and visit, you remember?

O’DONNELL: At your house. Whoa!

DONAHUE: That was visitation day.

O’DONNELL: Yes.

DONAHUE: And it was about money. You-you know...

O’DONNELL: Of course.

DONAHUE: Oh, my God. The priest-and my mother for three weeks cleaning the house before the priest got-monsignor-monsignor-and there’d always be a little kid in the corner, you know, would say, Poopy, you know, or something...

O’DONNELL: Yes.

DONAHUE: ... when the monsignor was there.

O’DONNELL: Oh, my Lord!

DONAHUE: Whoa! Man! I mean, people would be diving behind the couch!

O’DONNELL: You know, what’s...

DONAHUE: Holy cow!

O’DONNELL: ... interesting is that I’m not-I was forced to go to Catholic church every Sunday of my life. I used to hide at Jackie Ellard’s (ph) pool, trying not to go to church. But you know, I don’t bring our kids to church at all. But it’s funny, because my 7-year-old is overtly spiritual and connects-he got a toddler Bible from Kelly’s mother. And he says to me at night-I go-I go, OK, pick a book. What do you want? Oh, I think I’ll take the toddler Bible. What do you think, Mom, Old Testament or New Testament?

(LAUGHTER)

DONAHUE: Wow!

O’DONNELL: I go, You know what, Clark? I don’t know the difference. He goes, Old testament is before the birth of Jesus Christ. You know, the rainbow is God’s promise to Noah? The kid is, like, channeling some sort of Billy Graham! You know, every time he sees anything related to the Bible, he’s-it’s pretty amazing.

I lost a lot of respect for Rosie after seeing this interview.

[hyperdulia again]

then why the hell is she NOW making statements about leaving the Church. i had this mental image of her and kelli going to mass every sunday with offspring in tow. she sounds just plain anti-catholic. maybe she'll stop calling herseklf catholic now. famous people annoy me.

[hyperdulia again]

actually i don't know what she believes, because in her autobiography she talks about having the kids baptised....but wait, madonna had her kids baptised...nm...let's kill famously confused catholics! volunteers?!

[cmotherofpirl]

i didn't say he was right about everything, or even the kind of catholic we should consider to be a role model, but he did keep me in when i was about to get out.

Hyper I have been reading his stuff since you mentioned him. Although we can be quite wrong on many things he is a compelling read. His stuff on homosexuality is heartbreaking. I will put him on my prayer list.

[yiannii]

What annoys me is the fact that everyone seems to forget that the Church isn't a democracy!! I admit I have had problems with things the Pope as done or things He has said in the past, but NEVER have I questioned Him. I don't care how far he goes with this gay topic; I will trust and follow the Church all the way.

Remember, these people who are calling Catholics to leave the Church are in danger! Spiritual danger that is. We really need to pray for these people. The Church is going through a cleansing process at the moment. I can only speak for Melbourne but basically there is a split between the Modernists/Liberals and the Orthodox Catholics. I tend to call Modernist Catholics (Cafe` Catholics). They seem to think that they can pick and choose the rules they want to follow, just like at a Cafe` you choose what you would like to drink and eat. The Orthodox Catholics are the ones who are faithful to the Pope and who appreciate the Eucharist etc etc.

There is HOPE guys!! I have been to a few Liberal movement meetings and THEY ARE ALL OLD PEOPLE!!!! In Melbourne the only people who are going against Rome are OLD PRIESTS and OLD PEOPLE. The young generation is returning to Orthodoxy! Plus there will never be a split in the Church. These heretics know that they don't have the money or land to start a new church! I really do believe that this heresy will die out. It's very possible that the Church will be much smaller in numbers in the next few years but this doesn't matter! I would rather be in a Church full of faithful men and women like me, than be in some watered down Catholic Church!

Now the biggest reason for all these people going against Rome is basically the influence of our society. People today seem to be totally against authority. I think the U.S. is really affected by this. Regardless, who do you think is behind all this? Who do you think is spurning on these people to go against Rome, trying to destroy the Church on the inside rather than from the outside. I blame it all on Satan! Our society has totally lost sight of the path. This is just sweeping into our Church! But the Catholic Church will stand against our society, we aren't like the other churches, we don't give into what society wants (i.e. The Anglican Church, or the Uniting Church in Australia).

In times of doubt, I look at how our Church is attacked from right left and center and I realise that the Church is doing something right to revive this much attention!

Just remember this: The sin that caused Satan to fall was the sin of pride! If you look at all the churches that split directly from the Catholic Church you will see that Pride placed a huge role. Just look at the way the Greek Orthodox Church behaves towards fellow Greeks who are Catholic. Martin Luther had pride in him to go against the leaders in the Church, thinking that he knew more than them. And King Henry had pride in the sense; he wouldn't let anyone stop him getting a divorce. He also wanted to be head of the Church of England.

Can't you see that these people who are going against Rome are committing the sin of Pride? They think they know better than the Pope Himsef!!

Satan is jealous of us, because he can't love God; he wants us to fall with him. I think the same goes with the people who go against Rome; they want others to go with them.

It is my understanding that the Church doesn't condem Homosexuals. That has been what I have always been taught. It's not a sin to be gay! But if you feelo that you have homosexual tendercies then you are called to a chaist life. I would suggest anyone who wants to know more to read "Good News about Sex and Marriage" by Christopher West.

[yiannii]

Ccc:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357

Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection

[marielapin]

then why the hell is she NOW making statements about leaving the Church. i had this mental image of her and kelli going to mass every sunday with offspring in tow. she sounds just plain anti-catholic.  maybe she'll stop calling herseklf catholic now. famous people annoy me.

My thoughts exactly. To me, she was openly hostile to the Church and the Vatican saying that thing about the golden toilet seats and hoping the Church would sued forever.

She wasn't even Catholic to begin with.

True Catholics wouldn't even think of leaving the Church. That's why you couldn't stay away for long. :wub:

But you know, that was exactly the image she wanted you to have: a good, loyal Catholic who was trying to live her faith right and then decided to leave it for a "higher moral purpose". Things can be very misleading. I don't trust the majority of celebrities on what what they say they do versus what they actually do. In fact, the celebs that seem to have the deepest faith rarely talk about it. And when they do they don't make a huge spectacle of it.

[BullnaChinaShop]

In fact, the celebs that seem to have the deepest faith rarely talk about it.  And when they do they don't make a huge spectacle of it.

That is probably because those that have a deep faith have a shred of humility, a trait lacking in most celebrities.