How Often Are Mortal Sins Committed?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='15 January 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1263566192' post='2037701']
Today, our wise Mother instructs us that the minimum we should go to confession is once a year. If our Mother considered mortal sin to be a common experience for her children, one would think that the minimum would be a more respectable once a week. [/quote]

The Church also only requires that we receive Communion once a year.

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='15 January 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1263566192' post='2037701']
Example: Bob fornicates. Did Bob know that the choice of fornication was a matter of spiritual life and death (grave matter)? Did Bob consider this gravity before and during his act of fornication? If so, this would indicate full knowledge on Bob's part; deliberation toward the violation of a serious prohibition of his faith.

But did Bob make this choice to fornicate with the full capacity of his reason? Was his reason free of impairment by the influence of drugs / alcohol or lack of sleep? Was Bob mentally well? Was Bob free from any kind of mental duress that pressured him toward his action (e.g. hormones or perhaps a threat)? If so, this would indicate full consent on Bob's part; freely chosen rebellion against God's law.

Carelessness (pertaining to the intellect and thus, to full knowledge) and weakness (pertaining to the will and thus, to free consent) are typical of us all. Deliberation (full knowledge) and rebellion (full consent) should not be so typical. I believe mortal sin is uncommon for the active Catholic. All of this said, venial sin - if left unchecked - can lead us to mortal sin, which is why it is good to take advantage of confession on a regular basis (to say nothing of nightly examinations of conscience).
[/quote]

I think that you are exaggerating what is necessary for a mortal sin. Full knowledge and deliberate consent are not as rare as you are making them seem. Full knowledge simply means that the person knows that the sin is seriously wrong, and deliberate consent merely entails a person's freely choosing to commit the action.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='16 January 2010 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1263616280' post='2038138']
I think that you are exaggerating what is necessary for a mortal sin. Full knowledge and deliberate consent are not as rare as you are making them seem. Full knowledge simply means that the person knows that the sin is seriously wrong, and deliberate consent merely entails a person's freely choosing to commit the action.
[/quote]

I get what you are saying, but in the case of someone who claims to love God, why would they "freely" choose to do something that they knew was seriously wrong and also was an offense to God? It would be like "freely" cheating on your spouse, knowing that this would be wrong and would hurt them (especially if you also knew that you couldn't posibly keep this hidden from them!)

Mortal sin just seems like such an unloving act towards God (if it is "freely" done).

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='nunsense' date='15 January 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1263616778' post='2038148']
I get what you are saying, but in the case of someone who claims to love God, why would they "freely" choose to do something that they knew was seriously wrong and also was an offense to God? It would be like "freely" cheating on your spouse, knowing that this would be wrong and would hurt them (especially if you also knew that you couldn't posibly keep this hidden from them!)[/quote]

Lots of people freely cheat on their spouses, even though they know that this is wrong and that their spouse will find out.

[quote name='nunsense' date='15 January 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1263616778' post='2038148']
Mortal sin just seems like such an unloving act towards God
[/quote]

Certainly. The theological virtue of charity is lost with every mortal sin.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Nunsense]

[quote]
Lots of people freely cheat on their spouses, even though they know that this is wrong and that their spouse will find out.[/quote]

Doesn't sound like love to me.



[quote]Certainly. The theological virtue of charity is lost with every mortal sin.
[/quote]

Yes, that makes sense, but how sad.

[zunshynn]

...

Edited January 16, 2010 by zunshynn

[HisChildForever]

This post might derail the thread a bit, if so, I apologize.

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='15 January 2010 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1263617383' post='2038163']
The theological virtue of charity is lost with every mortal sin.
[/quote]

So when in a state of mortal sin, the person no longer has the virtue of charity, or do you mean that during the act of mortal sin the virtue of charity is not present?

Furthermore, since mortal sin cuts us from God's grace, what effect does this have on our prayers?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 January 2010 - 12:47 AM' timestamp='1263620868' post='2038235']
This post might derail the thread a bit, if so, I apologize.



So when in a state of mortal sin, the person no longer has the virtue of charity, or do you mean that during the act of mortal sin the virtue of charity is not present?[/quote]

The three theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity are infused into the soul by God at baptism. When a person commits a mortal sin and thus loses sanctifying grace, he also loses the theological virtue of charity, for charity and sanctifying grace are always present in the soul together. One can regain sanctifying grace, and, with it, the infused virtue of charity, by the Sacrament of Penance or by an act of perfect contrition with the intention of going to Confession as soon as possible.

From the Catechism:
"Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1855)

Hope this helps.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Resurrexi

[KeenanParkerII]

Hm, it doesn't say all charity. I have to assume that one can still pray and experience God's love while in a state of mortal sin. I agree that mortal sin is probably much more common than we expect seeing as it's the intent and not the act itself which condemns. I wonder what role willpower plays in mortal sin. What if a temporary and legitimate lack of willpower lead to someone willfully committing a sin they knew to be sinful?

Edited January 16, 2010 by KeenanParkerII

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='15 January 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1263616280' post='2038138']
The Church also only requires that we receive Communion once a year. [/quote]

There is a huge difference. If I choose to only receive communion once a year, there is no immediate or certain threat of eternal damnation (although my proclivity toward mortal sin may increase from a weakened spiritual state).

So let's say that those in frequent despair (itself a grave sin) are correct, and mortal sin is a frequent occurrence; since the Eucharist is not a remedy for mortal sin, care for her children would not strictly necessitate Mother Church to require more frequent reception. She might (and does) [i]encourage [/i]frequent reception as a preventative for mortal sin, but since not receiving is not an immediate matter of life and death it need not be a grave requirement on a weekly basis. However, if mortal sin is - as those in despair or terror-based relationship with God often claim - a common occurrence for the active Catholic, then it is an immediate matter of life and death to receive absolution, and confession should be required once a week at minimum. If a fatal plague was commonly contracted, and local doctors supplied free shots that cured the plague, and a mother did not require her child to get that shot daily, I would call that mother neglectful at best.

I also notice that you conveniently ignored that bit about the early Church. Remember that ours is the religion of commonsense.

[quote]I think that you are exaggerating what is necessary for a mortal sin. Full knowledge and deliberate consent are not as rare as you are making them seem. Full knowledge simply means that the person knows that the sin is seriously wrong, and deliberate consent merely entails a person's freely choosing to commit the action.
[/quote]

Full knowledge and full consent are as common as deliberate rebellion. Deliberate rebellion is not the same as carelessness or weakness. That is all that I am saying. More often than not, sins in grave areas are occasions of carelessness or weakness. You cannot sin mortally by accident. You cannot be uncertain about being in a state of mortal sin. Full consent means full engagement of both reason and will, and such engagement cannot occur except by means of conscious, deliberate rebellion. Indeed, mortal sin engages all three powers of the spirit; memory, intellect, and will. This is why it fundamentally destroys all charity within the soul.

I understand and commend your desire to highlight the gravity of sin. Keep in mind that venial sin is not understood to be trivial or unimportant.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='16 January 2010 - 02:54 AM' timestamp='1263628479' post='2038364']
The three theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity are infused into the soul by God at baptism. When a person commits a mortal sin and thus loses sanctifying grace, he also loses the theological virtue of charity, for charity and sanctifying grace are always present in the soul together. One can regain sanctifying grace, and, with it, the infused virtue of charity, by the Sacrament of Penance or by an act of perfect contrition with the intention of going to Confession as soon as possible.

From the Catechism:
"Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1855)

Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Reminds me of my Christian Moral Life class where we had to read a bunch of stuff from the Summa Theologiae and sometimes had an oral quiz on the reading.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='16 January 2010 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1263648561' post='2038426']
There is a huge difference. If I choose to only receive communion once a year, there is no immediate or certain threat of eternal damnation (although my proclivity toward mortal sin may increase from a weakened spiritual state). [/quote]

If one, after committing a mortal sin, makes an act of perfect contrition with the intention of confession as soon as possible, he is no longer in any immediate or certain threat of damnation, even if he fails to carry out his resolution of confessing as soon as possible.

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='16 January 2010 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1263648561' post='2038426']
So let's say that those in frequent despair (itself a grave sin) are correct, and mortal sin is a frequent occurrence[/quote]

It isn't the grave sin of despair to think that mortal sin is a frequent occurrence. Much like the theological virtue of "charity," the grave sin of "despair" has a very technical definition.

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='16 January 2010 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1263648561' post='2038426']
; since the Eucharist is not a remedy for mortal sin, care for her children would not strictly necessitate Mother Church to require more frequent reception. She might (and does) [i]encourage [/i]frequent reception as a preventative for mortal sin, but since not receiving is not an immediate matter of life and death it need not be a grave requirement on a weekly basis. [/quote]

The reason for the annual requirement of confessing is so that those in mortal sin will be able to make their Easter duty.

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='16 January 2010 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1263648561' post='2038426']
Full knowledge and full consent are as common as deliberate rebellion. Deliberate rebellion is not the same as carelessness or weakness. That is all that I am saying. More often than not, sins in grave areas are occasions of carelessness or weakness. You cannot sin mortally by accident. You cannot be uncertain about being in a state of mortal sin. Full consent means full engagement of both reason and will, and such engagement cannot occur except by means of conscious, deliberate rebellion. Indeed, mortal sin engages all three powers of the spirit; memory, intellect, and will. This is why it fundamentally destroys all charity within the soul.

I understand and commend your desire to highlight the gravity of sin. Keep in mind that venial sin is not understood to be trivial or unimportant.
[/quote]

Full knowledge and deliberate consent can certainly be present where weakness is present. If a person, knowing that fornication is seriously wrong, freely chooses to commit that sin, he commits a mortal sin, even if he committed that sin out of weakness. In fact, all humans experience weakened free will as an effect of original sin, but that doesn't make us incapable of committing a mortal sin.

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='16 January 2010 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1263671340' post='2038641']
If one, after committing a mortal sin, makes an act of perfect contrition with the intention of confession as soon as possible, he is no longer in any immediate or certain threat of damnation, even if he fails to carry out his resolution of confessing as soon as possible.

...

The reason for the annual requirement of confessing is so that those in mortal sin will be able to make their Easter duty.
[/quote]

True enough; but this refers to an extraordinary absolution, which still anticipates subsequent confession. The Church does not merely encourage baptism - as if it is proper to rely on the extraordinary form of desire - but requires it. While I agree with the correlation between the obligations of yearly penance and yearly Eucharist, I don't think there is warrant to remove the normative necessity of confession from your interpretive analysis. The fact remains that if mortal sin is understood to be a typical experience for the active Catholic, the only ordinary means of removing the threat of eternal doom is sacramental absolution (which, as previously mentioned, is necessarily anticipated by perfect contrition in the first place), and far more frequent confession should be required.

[quote]It isn't the grave sin of despair to think that mortal sin is a frequent occurrence. Much like the theological virtue of "charity," the grave sin of "despair" has a very technical definition.[/quote]

I did not sat what you're implying. I said that those in despair think that mortal sin is frequent (which says nothing about the precise definition of despair, only the psychological state in which those who despair find themselves). That is not the same as saying that everyone who thinks that mortal sin is frequent commits the sin of despair.

[quote]Full knowledge and deliberate consent can certainly be present where weakness is present. If a person, knowing that fornication is seriously wrong, freely chooses to commit that sin, he commits a mortal sin, even if he committed that sin out of weakness. In fact, all humans experience weakened free will as an effect of original sin, but that doesn't make us incapable of committing a mortal sin.
[/quote]

Mortal sin is not a matter of "Bob has been told that fornication is a grave sin and Bob does it anyway". That does not do justice to the word "full" prefacing knowledge and consent. I do not think your explanation / treatment of mortal sin does justice to its radical nature. I also notice that you continue to ignore the attitude of the early Church towards mortal sin and penance and the obvious connotations.