Traditional Introduction To Tridenteen

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='15 January 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1263604465' post='2038012']
I would love to have a good, holy, intelligent Jesuit for a spiritual director (though I'm quite happy and thankful for the one I have -- Blessed be God!). I mean, with St. Ignatius and his "Discernment of Spirits"... it'd be so awesome. Discernment should be their "specialty", right?

I'm definitely a [i]little[/i] jealous, vee8. Hopefully, it's only "holy envy"!
[/quote]

I really think God is spoiling me a bit with him. I mean he can quote the spiritual exercises like I can quote the Simpsons, probably a lot better actually. I agree discernment should be their specialty not hosting zazen seminars and stuff like that.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='vee8' date='15 January 2010 - 09:13 PM' timestamp='1263608017' post='2038055']
I really think God is spoiling me a bit with him. I mean he can quote the spiritual exercises like I can quote the Simpsons, probably a lot better actually. I agree discernment should be their specialty not hosting zazen seminars and stuff like that.
[/quote]



JMJ
It's awesome having a good confessor, the head of my community quotes Saint Therese of Avila like nuts when it comes to confession. I would like to meet the Pope's confessor, as i am sure he is dynamic [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/priest.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/priest.gif[/img]

[littlesister]

I would suggest being cautious with the "Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary." The last time we were there, one group had apparently come back into communion, while the rest were still separated. It is hard to tell the difference, and their two websites link one into the other. The Diocese of Worcester does not list them, at least that I can find.

An acquaintance of ours was in close contact with the Benedictines of Mary when they were starting out in the Scranton diocese. She told us that they were the ones who had come back from Still River.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='littlesister' date='16 January 2010 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1263693163' post='2038848']
I would suggest being cautious with the "Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary." The last time we were there, one group had apparently come back into communion, while the rest were still separated. It is hard to tell the difference, and their two websites link one into the other. The Diocese of Worcester does not list them, at least that I can find.

An acquaintance of ours was in close contact with the Benedictines of Mary when they were starting out in the Scranton diocese. She told us that they were the ones who had come back from Still River.
[/quote]


JMJ
I have already been in contact with the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart. Very nice nuns, but the whole Fr.Feeney thing really just threw me off. I'm sorry, but I just can't get into Feeneyism, so when I talked to the MICM's, and they were telling me about Feenyism and their convent, I realized that they had just said that the Anglican Priests who were burned at the stake in Uganda for refusing to deny Jesus weren't going to make it to Heaven. One group did come back, but they are still Feeneyites, like the other group. Odd though, the group who isn't in Communion is growing steadily, but the ones who are haven't gotten any new postulants, I don't think.

[FSM Sister]

Before you write off the English Mass altogether, do a little research into the Anglican Use Mass - especially in light of the new Apostolic Constitution Anglicanorum Coetibus. I've been attending Anglican Use Mass since 1994 and I love it. (Incidentally, I belong to a teaching order, loyal to the Magisterium... one of the few schools that has DAILY MASS with the students.) We do have TLM on Fridays, OF not EF. That's just enough Latin for me.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img]

[Freudentaumel]

[quote name='littlesister' date='17 January 2010 - 03:52 AM' timestamp='1263693163' post='2038848']
I would suggest being cautious with the "Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary." The last time we were there, one group had apparently come back into communion, while the rest were still separated. It is hard to tell the difference, and their two websites link one into the other. The Diocese of Worcester does not list them, at least that I can find.

An acquaintance of ours was in close contact with the Benedictines of Mary when they were starting out in the Scranton diocese. She told us that they were the ones who had come back from Still River.
[/quote]
I think we should be careful not to spread false information about Religious Communites. Both groups in Still River are fully recognized and can be found on the Diocesan Website of Worcester [url=http://www.worcesterdiocese.org/vicar/ReligiousCommunities/tabid/478/Default.aspx]here[/url].
There is a goup in Richmond, NH, which is not recognized; however they are also in full communion, just no recognized (and they don't link to each other).
I'm not a follower of Fr. Feeney's theories and I can fully understand if one would not consider them due to their Feeneyism. However, they are fully recognized order and their position was accepted as a possible Catholic position by the CDF under Cardinal Ratzinger, therefore I think we should be careful before we bring up accusations of being separated from the Church.

Also, the Benedictines of Mary have nothing to do with Feeneyism. IIRC their founder was with the Benedictines in Le Barroux for some time.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='FSM Sister' date='16 January 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1263697740' post='2038875']
Before you write off the English Mass altogether, do a little research into the Anglican Use Mass - especially in light of the new Apostolic Constitution Anglicanorum Coetibus. I've been attending Anglican Use Mass since 1994 and I love it. (Incidentally, I belong to a teaching order, loyal to the Magisterium... one of the few schools that has DAILY MASS with the students.) We do have TLM on Fridays, OF not EF. That's just enough Latin for me.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Our Lady of Atonement?

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='17 January 2010 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1263754376' post='2039160']
Our Lady of Atonement?
[/quote]


JMJ
I loved Our LAdy of Atonement. When the local Mass got too weird (ie liturgical dancing with a touch of wicca) we would go there. Not to often, though, it was an hour away, and we had a new born. There is a group anglican nuns, Society of All Saints, Sisters of the Poor, if I'm not mistaken. Do they teach? I couldn't figure it out from their website.

[DiscerningSoul]

I love wearing my veil to Mass!

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='FSM Sister' date='16 January 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1263697740' post='2038875']
Before you write off the English Mass altogether, do a little research into the Anglican Use Mass - especially in light of the new Apostolic Constitution Anglicanorum Coetibus. I've been attending Anglican Use Mass since 1994 and I love it. (Incidentally, I belong to a teaching order, loyal to the Magisterium... one of the few schools that has DAILY MASS with the students.) We do have TLM on Fridays, OF not EF. That's just enough Latin for me.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img]
[/quote]

1. The abbreviation "TLM" means "Traditional Latin Mass" or "Tridentine Latin Mass" and is hence not used to refer to the 'OF' but only to the 'EF.'

2. This is a personal opinion... but I think that recommending the Anglican Use--recommending it as a [i]philosophy[/i], not as a good option in [i]particular situations[/i]--is like saying "If you want to go straight, you could turn right four times." In the 1500s there was the Latin Mass... then Cranmer wrote the Book of Divine Worship and both butchered it and translated it into English... then a few years ago upon the conversion of Anglicans, enough was put back into it to make it Catholic again. To me it makes more sense philosophically either to advise attending the Tridentine Mass, or not.

[i]Practically [/i]speaking, I know Roman Catholics who attend Byzantine Catholic liturgies because they find it more reverent than the Novus Ordo. In that sense I can also understand a Roman Catholic attending an Anglican Use Mass.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='DiscerningSoul' date='17 January 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1263769396' post='2039317']
I love wearing my veil to Mass! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img]
[/quote]


JMJ
When I was talking with a couple seminarians (happily attired in cassocks and lacey surplices) from Saint Paul's Seminary in PA, they told me they liked that I wore a veil in Church, and wanted to know if the veil had any big meaning for me. I told them "Well, you wearing a cassock symbolizes for you your desire to be a priest, for me, my veil symbolizes my desire belong entirely to GOD![img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img] Well, it probably is silly, but that's my two cents on wearing a veil, we could probably discuss for hours the symbolism of wearing a veil in Church, and all the stuff from the Church Fathers, but I just think of it like that [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/happy.gif[/img]

[DiscerningSoul]

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=81087
Here is the thread the started me wearing one at every Mass.
It's started out as just us shy folk doing it for one Sunday, I just kept going and read up on it and wow... so I was hooked.
Sometimes I goto another church that is packed and I feel really nervous about it, all the kids have to turn and stare, but I do try to remember why I am doing it, no WHO I am doing it for, and its worth the thumping heart and choking feeling in my throat.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='17 January 2010 - 07:12 PM' timestamp='1263777166' post='2039387']
JMJ
When I was talking with a couple seminarians (happily attired in cassocks and lacey surplices) from Saint Paul's Seminary in PA, they told me they liked that I wore a veil in Church, and wanted to know if the veil had any big meaning for me. I told them "Well, you wearing a cassock symbolizes for you your desire to be a priest, for me, my veil symbolizes my desire belong entirely to GOD![img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img] Well, it probably is silly, but that's my two cents on wearing a veil, we could probably discuss for hours the symbolism of wearing a veil in Church, and all the stuff from the Church Fathers, but I just think of it like that [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/happy.gif[/img]
[/quote]
Interestingly enough, there are probably ten thousand or more posts on Phatmass about wearing veils in Mass.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='18 January 2010 - 10:58 AM' timestamp='1263830283' post='2039650']
Interestingly enough, there are probably ten thousand or more posts on Phatmass about wearing veils in Mass. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/happy.gif[/img]
[/quote]


JMJ
I believe it, it's one of those "things" people enjoy talking about, whether to ridicule it, or condone it Go figure!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='18 January 2010 - 11:26 AM' timestamp='1263835568' post='2039687']
JMJ
I believe it, it's one of those "things" people enjoy talking about, whether to ridicule it, or condone it Go figure!
[/quote]
Clearly it's something like that.

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='18 January 2010 - 12:36 PM' timestamp='1263836186' post='2039690']
Clearly it's something like that.
[/quote]

It's true, I have a distinct memory, years before I became a serious Catholic, of seeing a grown woman and her daughters at Mass in chapel veils and thinking something like "Don't they KNOW they don't have to do that anymore?" I don't think I even would have had any basis for that statement if you asked me. It was a totally prejudiced hostility out of nowhere.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' date='19 January 2010 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1263958856' post='2040490']
It's true, I have a distinct memory, years before I became a serious Catholic, of seeing a grown woman and her daughters at Mass in chapel veils and thinking something like "Don't they KNOW they don't have to do that anymore?" I don't think I even would have had any basis for that statement if you asked me. It was a totally prejudiced hostility out of nowhere.
[/quote]
People in my family are the same way. I think for them there's an unconscious association that's automatically made with Muslim veiling which leads to burqas, which brings to mind patriarchy and oppression. Thankfully my maleness means I don't have to deal with that...

[DevotedtoHim]

Here are some ideas:

I think this community is really beautiful: http://www.lagrassecanons.com/Canonesses/of_the_mother_of_god.htm
I know it is in France, but you should at least be open.


http://www.benedictinesofmary.org/ This is probably what you would really like.

http://nunocist.org/ I know they study Latin, I think their Mass is in Latin also. Really nice habits!

http://www.dominicaines-du-saint-esprit.fr/index.php Definitely what you are looking for. But in France.

Maybe since there are so many orders in France that are what you are looking for, you could be an American foundress! You never know!

[FSM Sister]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' date='17 January 2010 - 07:07 PM' timestamp='1263773263' post='2039344']
1. The abbreviation "TLM" means "Traditional Latin Mass" or "Tridentine Latin Mass" and is hence not used to refer to the 'OF' but only to the 'EF.'

2. This is a personal opinion... but I think that recommending the Anglican Use--recommending it as a [i]philosophy[/i], not as a good option in [i]particular situations[/i]--is like saying "If you want to go straight, you could turn right four times." In the 1500s there was the Latin Mass... then Cranmer wrote the Book of Divine Worship and both butchered it and translated it into English... then a few years ago upon the conversion of Anglicans, enough was put back into it to make it Catholic again. To me it makes more sense philosophically either to advise attending the Tridentine Mass, or not.

[i]Practically [/i]speaking, I know Roman Catholics who attend Byzantine Catholic liturgies because they find it more reverent than the Novus Ordo. In that sense I can also understand a Roman Catholic attending an Anglican Use Mass.
[/quote]


OUCH!!! That [i]really[/i] hurt! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/bash.gif[/img] I love the Anglican Use liturgy. I guess I just don't know any better...

[HisChild]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' date='17 January 2010 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1263773263' post='2039344']
1. The abbreviation "TLM" means "Traditional Latin Mass" or "Tridentine Latin Mass" and is hence not used to refer to the 'OF' but only to the 'EF.'

2. This is a personal opinion... but I think that recommending the Anglican Use--recommending it as a [i]philosophy[/i], not as a good option in [i]particular situations[/i]--is like saying "If you want to go straight, you could turn right four times." In the 1500s there was the Latin Mass... then Cranmer wrote the Book of Divine Worship and both butchered it and translated it into English... then a few years ago upon the conversion of Anglicans, enough was put back into it to make it Catholic again. To me it makes more sense philosophically either to advise attending the Tridentine Mass, or not.

[i]Practically [/i]speaking, I know Roman Catholics who attend Byzantine Catholic liturgies because they find it more reverent than the Novus Ordo. In that sense I can also understand a Roman Catholic attending an Anglican Use Mass.
[/quote]

Call me slow, but I've got some comprehension questions that perhaps you could help me with?

Could you explain what you mean by #2? I'm not sure what you mean by recommending it as a philosophy vs. a good option in particular situations.

I'm also wondering what you mean by 'in that sense, I can also understand a Roman Catholic attending an Anglican Use Mass'. Are you saying that you can understand someone attending the Anglican Use (or the soon to be officially recognized Anglican Catholic Liturgy) only because of the reverence? Does that mean that if a Roman Catholic chose a Transfer of Rite to the Anglican Use (which I doubt is an option until they figure out all the Ordinaries of the Anglican Catholic Rite) or to the Byzantine Rite, this is something you could not understand? And if that's what you meant, could you share please why you feel that way? I'm just curious as I've been looking at the various Catholic Rites and only ask out of curiosity, not to put you on the spot!

I hope that doesn't sound flip. I'm just seeking to understand what you mean by your statements.