Does Increasing Annulments Increase The Divorce Rate?

[southern california guy]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='17 January 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1263787310' post='2039443']
Prove that. I'm not saying that people have not manipulated the system, but if an annulment has been granted, it's not your place to judge whether or not it is legitimate.
[/quote]

Here's a Catholic News Service story about annulments that I found interesting. ( http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0900437.htm )

[color="#000080"][b]Pope cautions tribunals against granting annulments too easily[/b]

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Granting marriage annulments too easily and without real cause plays into a modern form of pessimism that basically says human beings are not able to make lifelong commitments to loving another person, Pope Benedict XVI said.

"We run the risk of falling into an anthropological pessimism which, in the light of today's cultural situation, considers it almost impossible to marry," the pope said in a speech Jan. 29 to members of the Tribunal of the Roman Rota.

The tribunal mainly deals with appeals filed in marriage annulment cases.

Pope Benedict said there is still a need to deal with a problem Pope John Paul II pointed out in a 1987 speech to the Roman Rota, that of saving the church community from "the scandal of seeing the value of Christian marriage destroyed in practice by the exaggerated and almost automatic multiplication of declarations of nullity."

Pope Benedict said he agreed with Pope John Paul that too often members of church tribunals see a failed marriage and grant the annulment on the basis of an ill-defined case of "immaturity or psychic weakness."

According to canon law, the validity of a marriage requires that both the man and woman freely and publicly consent to the union and that they have the psychological capacity to assume the obligations of marriage.

Pope Benedict said tribunal judges must remember there is a difference between the full maturity and understanding that people should strive to develop over time and "canonical maturity, which is the minimum point of departure for the validity of a marriage."

In addition, he said, granting an annulment on the basis of the "psychic incapacity" of the husband or wife requires that the tribunal establish and document the fact that the person had a serious psychological or psychiatric problem at the time the wedding was celebrated.

In defending the permanent and sacramental nature of marriage, tribunals are not making life difficult for couples that want to split up, the pope said.

Defending the marriage bond gives witness to the fact that the ability to love and to pledge oneself to another forever is part of human nature, he said.

The church's insistence that it is possible for the vast majority of people to make a lasting commitment to marriage can help couples "discover the natural reality of marriage and the importance it has in the plan of salvation," Pope Benedict said.

It is true that human nature is limited and imperfect, but that does not mean that people, "exercising human freedom supported by grace," cannot make a commitment to loving each other and raising a family together, he said.[/color]

[Norseman82]

[quote name='southern california guy' date='17 January 2010 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1263776977' post='2039386']

Are we seeing the impacts of a whole generation of Catholics from broken homes in the US Catholic church today?
[/quote]

Here's another thing to chew on: how many priests today have close family members who are divorced, or are even children of divorce themselves? I honestly believe that is affecting some of their ability to speak out forcefully enough against this scourge.

[CatherineM]

The Pope also recently made a small change to Canon Law regarding annulments. In the past, all Catholics, from those who were baptized but not raised Catholic all the way to the most devout Catholic you have ever met, were required to be married in church. Fallen away Catholics who married outside the church got automatic annulments, but not Protestants, who were not under the same requirements. Now, if you have left the Church, that requirement is no longer in affect, so no automatic annulments. It will be interesting to learn how the various tribunals define the line of when you leave the Church. It could mean anyone who joins another church, or only those who have formally resigned. I suspect that some tribunals will go one way, some the other, and eventually it will be ironed out by the Roman Rota.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='17 January 2010 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1263779949' post='2039412']
My parents were both divorced. In fact, they weren't married to each other until my mom needed the paperwork in order to file for Social Security. My mother's first marriage was annulled, my father's wasn't. Not because it was turned down, he had automatic grounds, but because he refused to file. He didn't believe in it. I was raised by my mom and dad, so it's not like I came from a broken home. I don't believe in divorce which seems strange to say since I filed many divorces in my legal career. My husband and I agreed from the beginning that divorce would never be an option. That means we actually have to work things out. Besides, he'd be scared to face me in court.
[/quote]

Did your parents have kids from their first marriages? It's a good thing that your parents second marriage worked out.

I guess that I've been thinking about this lately because I have been listening to Dr Laura Schlessinger on the radio and it seems that the majority of the problems people have involve divorce and the kids caught in the middle of it. I guess that I'm pretty lucky because I have parents who would have never considered divorce.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='17 January 2010 - 11:01 PM' timestamp='1263787310' post='2039443']
Prove that. I'm not saying that people have not manipulated the system, but if an annulment has been granted, it's not your place to judge whether or not it is legitimate.
[/quote]

I know people who openly discuss falsefying documents and lying to tribunals.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='17 January 2010 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1263787119' post='2039442']
State your evidence that annulments are on the rise. there may be a rise in the rate of requests, but I have a feeling the number of annulments has been dropping.
[/quote]

I don't know what the latest statistics are. I hope you're right that they have fallen a little. I've read (I'll find a reference) that something like 97% of all annulments applied for in the US are granted. That's almost one hundred percent..

Here's a quote from an article on a Catholic website:
( http://www.cmri.org/97prog9-1.htm )

[color="#8B0000"]Since the advent of Vatican Council II, the number of annulments in the United States has escalated to a phenomenal proportion. Why, may we ask, has this taken place? Joseph P. Zwach, modern “Catholic” author and civil lawyer, in his well-circulated book Annulment: Your Chance to Remarry within the Catholic Church states:

“Ever since the Church began recognizing psychological grounds for annulments in 1970, there’s been an absolute explosion in their number. In 1968, for example, only 338 annulments were granted in this country. In 1978, more than 27,000 were granted — an increase of 8000%. Last year, I estimate more than 52,000 were granted.”

Prior to Vatican II, the only psychological grounds accepted for annulments were those in which one of the parties to the marriage did not possess the use of reason. Be that as it may, it had to be established with certainty that the one party so lacked the use of reason as to be incapable of a human act of the will to consent to the marriage contract.

The official numbers of annulments in the United States since the Second Vatican Council are as follows:

1984 - 36,461
1985 - 53,320
1987 - 60,570
1988 - 50,000
1989 - 61,416
1990 - 62,824

Let us compare the numbers above with the 392 annulments granted by the Catholic Church world-wide for all the years between 1952 and 1956.
[/color]

[CatherineM]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='17 January 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1263790430' post='2039475']
I know people who openly discuss falsefying documents and lying to tribunals.
[/quote]
That never happened on my watch. Had I heard of even a rumor of such a thing happening, I would have reported it immediately. I never put a witness on the stand in civil court or the tribunal that I knew intended to lie. I'm not sure how an individual could falsify documents since we only accepted documents directly from the issuing source such as a court clerk, or a parish. Those documents don't go through the applicant's hands.

If you truly have first hand knowledge of such fraud before the tribunal, you have the moral duty to report it. If it isn't first hand knowledge, then it is just gossip.

[zunshynn]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='17 January 2010 - 09:53 PM' timestamp='1263790430' post='2039475']
I know people who openly discuss falsefying documents and lying to tribunals.
[/quote]

"Tons" of people?

[CatherineM]

[quote name='southern california guy' date='17 January 2010 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1263790017' post='2039470']
Did your parents have kids from their first marriages? It's a good thing that your parents second marriage worked out.

[/quote]
My dad had two sons, my mom had two, and then they had me and my youngest brother. There's 19 years difference between me and my oldest brother. Between the 5 of them, they have had 12 wives. I didn't get married until I was 43. I believe watching my brothers divorce and child support and visitation issues, etc, influenced my not wanting to get married or have kids until I was really sure. My parents though, I didn't really think about them being divorced. I thought it was normal for brothers to have different last names. My dad never treated his step-sons any differently than he did his "real" kids. When my mom and dad got together my older brothers were 3 and 5 years old, so I'm sure that made a big difference.

It also wasn't unusual that my parents didn't receive communion. There were lots of parents from my school who didn't. I wonder if we are just more willing to go through the invasion that the annulment process can bring now. When I was a kid, there were lots of divorced people, they just didn't receive communion.

[tinytherese]

What seems to be the real problems why divorce is so common is because this "sexual revolution" really screwed things up. Also, today most people don't seem to realize what love is apart from wonderful feelings. A lot of what went on during the feminist movement didn't help either, along with Roe vs. Wade. I agree that no fault divorce also played a significant role. Not to mention, poor catechesis in parishes, Catholic schools, and homes. (When it comes to Catholics falling away from the faith in many cases and people not seeing why things like contraception, premarital sex, cohabitating, and abortion are immoral.) Also, people who engage in sex prior to marriage and don't change their ways are significantly more likely to get divorced because they haven't trained themselves in faithfulness and haven't learned self-control either. With that comes the higher liklihood for affairs and infidelity is one of the most common reasons why people divorce these days.

Some people don't even seem that motivated to try to fix their marriages once they start having problems. They just throw the baby out with the bathwater so fast. For others, it seems as if they expect marriage to be their perfect happily ever after where everything is just peachy keen and then when reality hits they just figure that they just weren't right for them so they split. Other times, people seem to end marriage because one or both parties was just being selfish. In-laws can even break up couples.

Finally, it seems as if couples don't talk about important issues like children, finances, etc. before the wedding. With that, they don't have a game plan for how their marriage will be or they may even find out too late they didn't find out about important things about their spouse before the wedding. I remember my spanish teacher in high school telling us about her brother who got married and then later divorced his wife because he found out that she didn't want to have children, but he did. So they split. If they would have discussed this before, they might not even have gotten married at all and it would be one less broken up marriage. I think that courtship really needs to be revived today. That way we can better discern if we are marrying the right person. People need to understand that their heart is not the only part to be used when choosing a spouse, but also their head. People claim that "love is blind," but as Jason Evert once put it "Love has its eyes wide open."

[Veridicus]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='17 January 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1263790430' post='2039475']
I know people who openly discuss falsefying documents and lying to tribunals.
[/quote]


In the early 90s my step mother was advised by her priest to lie on documents when she inquired about annulment after she found out that her husband had been sleeping with other women before, during, and after their marriage (and that her ex-inlaws had known about it all along without saying anything). The priest told her she needed to lie and say that she had doubts the day of the wedding if she wanted an annulment. Despite the tragedy of the situation, my stepmom said her wedding day had been the happiest day of her life up to that point because she had no idea her fiancee was a giant sleezebag.

Needless to say my step mother found the entire process ridiculous given the suggestion by her priest and years later remarried my father in a civil ceremony without the Church's blessing. They now attend a different parish where no one is aware of the fact she never got an annulment. She's very bitter about the entire annulment process.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Veridicus

[organwerke]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='18 January 2010 - 12:52 AM' timestamp='1263768777' post='2039316']
Well statistically I think it is more likely. Also puts the children at greater risk of delinquency, etc.. Not that we should judge them just because their parents are divorced, but statistically it's definitely significant.
[/quote]

I still don't agree, and I don't think that it does exist a source that demonstrates this relation.
I simply think that we can imagine that it is more likely that in general persons of THIS generation are at a greater risk of divorce becuase social environment, in general, is much more "pro-divorce" than in the past: I don't think there is a significative difference between kids from married couples and chldren for divorced ones.

We also have to think that divorce is quite recent, so many persons of this generation who are divorced are likely children of married -not divorced couples from the previous generation.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='organwerke' date='18 January 2010 - 03:04 PM' timestamp='1263848661' post='2039786']
I still don't agree, and I don't think that it does exist a source that demonstrates this relation.
I simply think that we can imagine that it is more likely that in general persons of THIS generation are at a greater risk of divorce becuase social environment, in general, is much more "pro-divorce" than in the past: I don't think there is a significative difference between kids from married couples and chldren for divorced ones.

We also have to think that divorce is quite recent, so many persons of this generation who are divorced are likely children of married -not divorced couples from the previous generation.
[/quote]
I don't understand what you're disagreeing with me about.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='18 January 2010 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1263849010' post='2039792']
I don't understand what you're disagreeing with me about.
[/quote]

Who's on first?

[organwerke]

I disagree with southerncalifornia guy when he says that kids from broken families are more likely to get divorced (for the only fact that their parents are divorced).

I think you confirmed this belief when you say [i]Well statistically I think it is more likely.[/i]

I don't want to approve divorce at all. But I don't think that kids from broken families are more likely to get divorced than contemporary kids from united families.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='organwerke' date='18 January 2010 - 03:22 PM' timestamp='1263849731' post='2039800']
I disagree with southerncalifornia guy when he says that kids from broken families are more likely to get divorced (for the only fact that their parents are divorced).

I think you confirmed this belief when you say [i]Well statistically I think it is more likely.[/i]

I don't want to approve divorce at all. But I don't think that kids from broken families are more likely to get divorced than contemporary kids from united families.
[/quote]
In that case I'll have to tell you that the research bears me out.
[url="http://www.divorcereform.org/all.html"]My link[/url]

..."Sex between young teens and older individuals increases with the number of famiy disadvantages...[The teens] lived in a family structure other than one headed by two biological or adoptive parents"...

..."Trends created an index of family disadvantage. We found that as the number of family disadvantages increases, the likelihood of sex between young teens and older individuals increases correspondingly..."

Children of divorce are twice as likely to drop out of school as those from intact homes, three times as apt to have a baby out of wedlock, five-fold more likely to be in poverty and 12 times more apt to be incarcerated.

The sons of single parents are more prone to commit suicide as adults than others, and daughters are more likely to have abortions and more children. The risk of suicide doubled if sons were raised by single parents. When compared with people who grew up in a traditional family with both parents, children of single parents are hospitalized more often due to injuries and poisonings. The sons of single parents also commit more crimes.

"* Among married men, 63% grew up in two-parent homes vs. 37% in
non-traditional families.

* 54% from traditional homes say they'd ''be ready to marry tomorrow if the
right person came along'' vs. 43% of men from single-parent or step-parent
families.

* 22% of singles are ''not the marrying kind.'' These are more likely to be
from non-traditional families (59%) vs. 41% from homes with two biological
parents."

Religion: Children of divorce (whose parents divorced while they were children) are 62% more likely than children of non-divorced parents to no longer identify with the faith of their parents when they grow up. Catholics were 1.7 times more likely to switch to a moderate
Protestant denomination, 2.6 times more likely to switch to a conservative
Protestant denomination, and 2.2 times as likely to apostatize.

"Children who grow up in single-parent homes are less likely to marry, more likely to divorce, and more likely to have children outside of wedlock."
Daniel T. Lichter et al., "Race and the Retreat from Marriage: A Shortage of Marriageable Men?" American Sociological Review 57 (December 1992): 781-799. Cited on page27 ofThe Abolition of Marriage, by Maggie Gallagher



The link I provided is quite thorough.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='18 January 2010 - 01:53 PM' timestamp='1263844427' post='2039747']
In the early 90s my step mother was advised by her priest to lie on documents when she inquired about annulment after she found out that her husband had been sleeping with other women before, during, and after their marriage (and that her ex-inlaws had known about it all along without saying anything). The priest told her she needed to lie and say that she had doubts the day of the wedding if she wanted an annulment. Despite the tragedy of the situation, my stepmom said her wedding day had been the happiest day of her life up to that point because she had no idea her fiancee was a giant sleezebag.

Needless to say my step mother found the entire process ridiculous given the suggestion by her priest and years later remarried my father in a civil ceremony without the Church's blessing. They now attend a different parish where no one is aware of the fact she never got an annulment. She's very bitter about the entire annulment process.
[/quote]
I'm sorry your step-mother was given such bad advice. It's possible that he told her to say that to save her from the embarrassment of asking women who had slept with her first husband to provide that information to the tribunal. It doesn't matter if she had doubts since her ex obviously didn't intend from the beginning to keep the vows he was taking. By saying she was the one with the doubts, all the dirty laundry could have been hidden. It's never too late. I'd suggest she call the tribunal, explain the trouble she had with the first priest, and they can direct her to a priest/advocate with more experience and expertise with the process.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='18 January 2010 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1263850504' post='2039806']
I'm sorry your step-mother was given such bad advice. It's possible that he told her to say that to save her from the embarrassment of asking women who had slept with her first husband to provide that information to the tribunal. It doesn't matter if she had doubts since her ex obviously didn't intend from the beginning to keep the vows he was taking. By saying she was the one with the doubts, all the dirty laundry could have been hidden. It's never too late. I'd suggest she call the tribunal, explain the trouble she had with the first priest, and they can direct her to a priest/advocate with more experience and expertise with the process.
[/quote]

She divorced her husband in the beginning of the 90s and remarried my dad civilly in about 2000. Funny irony is I was the only person who wasn't in attendance at her and my father's 'wedding' because they planned it while I was on a trip with my own mother out of town. I got the whole story from her one night when she'd had a little too much wine. My step-mom's own mother (a very devout French Catholic army wife) was verbal about her own unhappiness with her daughter not getting an annulment before marrying my dad. It was more or less her dying wish because she verbalized that sentiment until the day she died a year or so later. It's unfortunate my stepmom was so scandalized by the advice of that priest; I don't know that I have any more advice to give her if she couldn't accommodate the desires of her frail dying mother. All I feel that I can do is pray for her obedience and a softened heart. Its kinda her and my father's souls on the line.