Cathedral <3

[KeenanParkerII]

Anyone else love Cathedrals and libraries? Post pics

I was lucky enough to see this organ in Passau Germany in person. It was amazing:
[img]http://s3.images.com/huge.92.464602.JPG[/img]

Milan Cathedral:
[img]http://justkardoman.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/milan_cathedral.jpg[/img]

Manchester:
[img]http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/06/Manchester_Cathedral_Choir.jpg[/img]

St. Patricks:
[img]http://www.getreligion.org/wp-content/photos/2009/02/saint_patricks_cathedral.jpg[/img]

Koln Germany:
[img]http://bergie.iki.fi/static/e/e4b2bec0533011dc8321b3fe1f78b721b721_1233152844_281dedc8dc_b.jpg[/img]

This is Gaudi's Cathedral innn barcelonaaa??? It's not finished yet, but it should look like this:
[img]http://www.gaudidesigner.com/data/article/16.jpg[/img]

Edited February 1, 2010 by KeenanParkerII

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='31 January 2010 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1264993871' post='2048623']
Anyone else love Cathedrals and libraries? Post pics

I was lucky enough to see this organ in Passau Germany in person. It was amazing:
[img]http://s3.images.com/huge.92.464602.JPG[/img]

Milan Cathedral:
[img]http://justkardoman.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/milan_cathedral.jpg[/img]

Manchester:
[img]http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/06/Manchester_Cathedral_Choir.jpg[/img]

St. Patricks:
[img]http://www.getreligion.org/wp-content/photos/2009/02/saint_patricks_cathedral.jpg[/img]

Koln Germany:
[img]http://bergie.iki.fi/static/e/e4b2bec0533011dc8321b3fe1f78b721b721_1233152844_281dedc8dc_b.jpg[/img]

This is Gaudi's Cathedral innn barcelonaaa??? It's not finished yet, but it should look like this:
[img]http://www.gaudidesigner.com/data/article/16.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Those are awesome! I don't have pics, but... do you speak German? Just wondering cause you called it Köln instead of Cologne.

[tinytherese]

Oh I've been to some lovely churches in Paris, Madrid, Toledo, Florence, Rome, and Vatican City. I'm disappointed that I didn't get to go to mass at the Vatican, but there were weird things that got in the way. At least I can say that I've been there. I especially liked when I went to Notre Dame in Paris.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='31 January 2010 - 09:11 PM' timestamp='1264993871' post='2048623']
Koln Germany:
[img]http://bergie.iki.fi/static/e/e4b2bec0533011dc8321b3fe1f78b721b721_1233152844_281dedc8dc_b.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Cologne was the first Cathedral that I fell in love with. It's immensity is indescribable. I absolutely love Cathedrals for their architectural magnificence...I love them even moreso than I detest the modern architecture so prevalent in the Church these days. I will post some great Cathedral pics from my travels in Europe tomorrow.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='01 February 2010 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1265001860' post='2048692']
Oh I've been to some lovely churches in Paris, Madrid, Toledo, Florence, Rome, and Vatican City. I'm disappointed that I didn't get to go to mass at the Vatican, but there were weird things that got in the way. At least I can say that I've been there. I especially liked when I went to Notre Dame in Paris.
[/quote]
I've been to the one in Montreal. Some say it's better

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]Those are awesome! I don't have pics, but... do you speak German? Just wondering cause you called it Köln instead of Cologne.[/quote]

Only enough to hitch a ride, find the U-Bahn and toast a hefe. =) I've got some family in southern Germany.

[quote]Cologne was the first Cathedral that I fell in love with. It's immensity is indescribable. I absolutely love Cathedrals for their architectural magnificence...I love them even moreso than I detest the modern architecture so prevalent in the Church these days. I will post some great Cathedral pics from my travels in Europe tomorrow.[/quote]

They're amazing alright. We need a throwback to transcendent architecture. I'm looking forward to those pics. I'd post mine, but looking back I now realize my photography skills aren't anything to brag about.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='01 February 2010 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1265004925' post='2048724']
Only enough to hitch a ride, find the U-Bahn and toast a hefe. =) I've got some family in southern Germany.
[/quote]

Ooo, that's the best place. I've only been to southern Germany, but I know enough to stay away from [i]die Preußen.[/i]

[Veridicus]

I'll post a few that I already have uploaded to photobucket...mostly interiors of various beautiful churches. I'll upload some selected European pics tomorrow afternoon.

Our Lady of the Angels, Chicago (not a Cathedral, but beautiful nonetheless)
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_3643.jpg[/IMG]


St. John Cantius, Chicago (again, not a Cathedral)
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_3664.jpg[/IMG]


Siberian Orthodox Church, Chicago (not even Catholic)
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_3698.jpg[/IMG]


Monte Cassino, Cassino Italy
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_4972.jpg[/IMG]


St. Peter's Basilica, Vatican City
Looking above the Bernini's Baldacchino (this is one of my favorite pics I took in St. Peters...I love the angel's stance and the light rays)
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_4472.jpg[/IMG]

Stained Glass above the Altar of the Chair in St. Peter's
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_4479.jpg[/IMG]


Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, Washington DC
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_0506.jpg[/IMG]

[Veridicus]

Basilica of St. Paul Outside the Walls, Rome (taken during the Year of St. Paul)
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_5114.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_5105.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_5125.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_5126.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_5127.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_5137.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_5148.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Veridicus21/IMG_5150.jpg[/IMG]

[Ed Normile]

These are all beautiful examples of the excesses of man. I wonder if God finds these any more pleasing a site for worship than he found the catacombs in which the early christians had to hide in to celebrate the mass for fear of being persecuted?

ed

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='01 February 2010 - 09:56 AM' timestamp='1265039784' post='2048875']
These are all beautiful examples of the excesses of man. I wonder if God finds these any more pleasing a site for worship than he found the catacombs in which the early christians had to hide in to celebrate the mass for fear of being persecuted?

ed
[/quote]
Should Man not give God the very best he can in whatever situation in which he finds himself?

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='01 February 2010 - 09:56 AM' timestamp='1265039784' post='2048875']
These are all beautiful examples of the excesses of man. I wonder if God finds these any more pleasing a site for worship than he found the catacombs in which the early christians had to hide in to celebrate the mass for fear of being persecuted?
[/quote]

There exists no excess when we are lavishing glories upon Christ. Judas had to learn this lesson when he criticized Mary for pouring expensive perfume upon Jesus's feet (John 12). When Christ is present (in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass & reposed in the Tabernacle) we have every reason to honor him with our riches. Beautiful Churches are in my opinion the quintessential example of 'expensive perfume' well used. The Church, like the liturgy, exists for the glory of God and the edification of the people. The catacombs of the martyrs exemplify the glory of God in their own unique way and this is why it became tradition (until recently...) to incorporate the relics of the saints into the Altar stone...thus preserving this early glory of the Church in a post-persecution era. The Eastern Churches understand the Church building as an Icon in a way that the West has forgotten and lost in the Modern era.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Veridicus

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='01 February 2010 - 10:57 AM' timestamp='1265039837' post='2048876']
Should Man not give God the very best he can in whatever situation in which he finds himself?
[/quote]

Yes Nihil, but, arguably those monies used to erect these magnificent structures could have been spent to alleviate the suffering of the poor, something that Jesus and his many saints ascribed to. I am certain they have served their purpose, maybe even inspired some to convert. I also can say they are excessive in their construction. The construction of a church hospital or orphanage seems much more worthy a way to give God our best in all situations. I am not saying these houses do not minister to the masses as they are intended.

ed

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='01 February 2010 - 11:03 AM' timestamp='1265043813' post='2048918']
Yes Nihil, but, arguably those monies used to erect these magnificent structures could have been spent to alleviate the suffering of the poor, something that Jesus and his many saints ascribed to. I am certain they have served their purpose, maybe even inspired some to convert. I also can say they are excessive in their construction. The construction of a church hospital or orphanage seems much more worthy a way to give God our best in all situations. I am not saying these houses do not minister to the masses as they are intended.

ed
[/quote]
I'll refer you to Veridicus above. He said it better than I could.

[Ed Normile]

Do you think this is less beautiful or less lavish or worthy in the eyes of God? A creator that sees the beauty in our souls, I wonder what other beauty or excess we may in our vanity suppose to be even approaching the perfection of a pure soul? I also wonder if God sees these constructs as anything more than a collection of bricks and mortar, is it any more beautiful in His eyes than a flower or a baby. I think we can honor his presence more perfectly in silent adoration, no matter where or how it is presented. Let me add I see nothing wrong with showering God with lavish excess, I wonder if He does.

ed Edited February 1, 2010 by Ed Normile

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='01 February 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1265046961' post='2048959']
Do you think this is less beautiful or less lavish or worthy in the eyes of God? A creator that sees the beauty in our souls, I wonder what other beauty or excess we may in our vanity suppose to be even approaching the perfection of a pure soul? I also wonder if God sees these constructs as anything more than a collection of bricks and mortar, is it any more beautiful in His eyes than a flower or a baby. I think we can honor his presence more perfectly in silent adoration, no matter where or how it is presented. Let me add I see nothing wrong with showering God with lavish excess, I wonder if He does.

ed
[/quote]

I give up, after several tries to insert a picture of the Blessed Kateri Tekawitha shrine church and the altar, which for some raeson has stymied me, I will just say insert mental image of some place where you have felt serenity, peace, and the presence of God even if it is not spectacular and grandiose, and then ask yourself what could be more beautiful to God.

ed

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='01 February 2010 - 11:03 AM' timestamp='1265043813' post='2048918']
arguably those monies used to erect these magnificent structures could have been spent to alleviate the suffering of the poor, something that Jesus and his many saints ascribed to. I am certain they have served their purpose, maybe even inspired some to convert. I also can say they are excessive in their construction. The construction of a church hospital or orphanage seems much more worthy a way to give God our best in all situations. I
[/quote]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='01 February 2010 - 11:56 AM' timestamp='1265046961' post='2048959']

Let me add I see nothing wrong with showering God with lavish excess, I wonder if He does.
[/quote]

Ed, I will post the text of John 12:1-8 that I cited earlier as I don't think you took the time to read it. It addresses both of these statements to show that Christ neither sees anything wrong with showering Him with excess nor from diverting resources that could be potentially used for the ubiquitous problem of poverty into even opulent expressions of honor to Jesus:

"Jesus therefore, six days before the pasch, came to Bethania, where Lazarus had been dead, whom Jesus raised to life. And they made him a supper there: and Martha served. But Lazarus was one of them that were at table with him. Mary therefore took a pound of ointment of right spikenard, of great price, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the odor of the ointment. Then one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, he that was about to betray him, said: [u]Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence and given to the poor[/u]? Now he said this not because he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief and, having the purse, carried the things that were put therein. Jesus therefore said: Let her alone, that she may keep it against the day of my burial. [u]For the poor you have always with you[/u]: but me you have not always."

In my reading of this we see that Jesus does not detest our monetary excesses even when such excesses could have been spent to help the poor. Helping the poor is of course a primary objective of Christianity, but Christ made sure we knew that directing our resources toward glorifying his True Presence could even take precedence of the poor.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='01 February 2010 - 11:56 AM' timestamp='1265046961' post='2048959']
Do you think this is less beautiful or less lavish or worthy in the eyes of God? A creator that sees the beauty in our souls, I wonder what other beauty or excess we may in our vanity suppose to be even approaching the perfection of a pure soul? I also wonder if God sees these constructs as anything more than a collection of bricks and mortar, is it any more beautiful in His eyes than a flower or a baby. I think we can honor his presence more perfectly in silent adoration, no matter where or how it is presented. Let me add I see nothing wrong with showering God with lavish excess, I wonder if He does.

ed
[/quote]
A large part of it is the effort that we devote to the construction. Sure, you could in theory say Mass in a concrete bunker with a wooden table as an altar, but why? Is it because you don't want to put the money and effort towards constructing something beautiful? We should give to God everything that we are able. Besides that, sacred architecture is designed to lift up our souls in worship in adoration.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='01 February 2010 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1265047564' post='2048968']
I give up, after several tries to insert a picture of the Blessed Kateri Tekawitha shrine church and the altar, which for some raeson has stymied me, I will just say insert mental image of some place where you have felt serenity, peace, and the presence of God even if it is not spectacular and grandiose, and then ask yourself what could be more beautiful to God.
[/quote]

I get your point. God can see beauty in the poverty and simple offerings. Like the widow who gave her last pence to the Temple. I agree with you in this regard; however I disagree in the extension of this logic that conversely God must find huge cathedrals decadent. The architectural and monetary excesses we lavish upon a beautiful church are no less important than feeding and clothing the poor. There is a balance to be sure, but it is not an 'either or' phenomenon.

[Ed Normile]

Jesus therefore said: Let her alone, that she may keep it against the day of my burial. For the poor you have always with you: but me you have not always."

This could,be taken to mean that they only had Jesus in his human form for a short time and that was an appropriate offering for his human condition, we also know we do have Jesus with us always. Jesus surely knew this too, so he most likely meant that in the context of, my physical body will be gone, and that Martha was properly honouring his human form.

The way I look at this comes from my experience as a parent, remember we are to look at God as our Father. When my children spend their money to buy me some gift, birthday or holiday, I always am grateful for the gift but I would much rather they spent the money on something that they could use or want, because as a parent I want for them. I would prefer a simple note or a hug, I know they love me, they do not have to prove it with tokens. My love for my children assumes this return of love from them. My best gift is hugs from my sons and kisses from my daughter, this would transfer too prayer and obedience to God, I would assume. I said earlier I feel these constructs are great and beautiful, and very inspirational, with that said I also feel they are monuments to men, in the sense of look what I did. I will also add that Jesus left behind no monument to him or his father, except for the simple gift of the sacraments. Again let me add that I am familiar with passage that veridicus posted, and I see no wrong in the gifts we as men see fit to present to God, I just wonder how God sees them.

Mt 5; 14 -16 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill can not be hidden. Men do not light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket. They set it on a stand where it gives light to all the house. In the same way, your light must shine before men so that they may see goodness in your acts and give praise to your heavenly Father.

ed