Angry Parish Erupts At Bishop

[Resurrexi]

Three words:

Hermeneutic of continuity.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Skinzo' date='11 February 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1265947042' post='2055651']
Vatican II stated its priorities for ecumenical dialogue. The popes have spoken repeatedly on the subject in encyclicals, letters, etc. since Vatican II. They speak for themselves. Consult those.

S.
[/quote]

The Church's number one priority isn't that of the salvation of souls?

[Apotheoun]

Three words in connection with Cardinal Kasper's essay on ecumenism:

Appointed by Benedict.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='11 February 2010 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1265949221' post='2055667']
Three words in connection with Cardinal Kasper's essay on ecumenism:

Appointed by Benedict.
[/quote]

His Eminence, Cardinal Mahony, was appointed by the Holy Father, as well, and you are never lacking in criticism of him.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Resurrexi

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='11 February 2010 - 11:08 PM' timestamp='1265947713' post='2055655']
Three words:

Hermeneutic of continuity.
[/quote]
Werd.

[Skinzo]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 February 2010 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1265949156' post='2055665']
The Church's number one priority isn't that of the salvation of souls?
[/quote]
From ZENIT:

"Pope Benedict said in his first speech that Christian unity was his priority:
Benedict XVI confirmed that the ecumenical movement toward full Christian unity is a priority of his ministry as Pope.

"The Second Vatican Council considered as one of its main objectives the re-establishment of full Christian unity," the Holy Father said today. "This is also my objective."

His words were heard by participants in the plenary assembly of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, headed by Cardinal Walter Kasper.

Benedict XVI mentioned the first message he wrote as Pope, dated April 20, 2005, in which he assumed "as a primary commitment, to work without sparing energies for the reconstitution of the full and visible unity of all the followers of Christ."

The Pope added on that occasion that he "lets himself be challenged in the first person by this request and is prepared to do all that is in his power to promote the fundamental cause of ecumenism."
In his address today, Benedict XVI acknowledged that important steps have been taken since Vatican II, "where the observer delegates of the other Churches and ecclesial communities were attentive, but in silence."

Silence transformed

"This image has made room in subsequent decades to the reality of a Church in dialogue with all Churches and ecclesial communities of East and West," the Holy Father continued.

"The silence has been transformed into a word of communion," he said. "Enormous work has been done at the universal and local level. Fraternity has been rediscovered among all Christians and has been established as the condition of dialogue, cooperation and common prayer of solidarity."

The Pope was moved in particular by "the experience of communion lived with representatives of the other Churches and ecclesial communities who came from all the continents to participate in the funeral of the unforgettable John Paul II and also in the inauguration of my pontificate. To share sorrow and joy is a visible sign of the new situation that has been created among Christians."
http://www.zenit.org/article-18204?l=english

What is wrong with reading the Church's teachings on ecumenism? Is the Church in error?

S.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Skinzo

[Skinzo]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='12 February 2010 - 12:08 AM' timestamp='1265947713' post='2055655']
Three words:

Hermeneutic of continuity.
[/quote]

But you declare "actions speak louder than words". However, "the word is God" and the teachings of the Church are all found in words. You would argue then that we should ignore the teachings of the Church and simply pay attention its actions?

S.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Skinzo' date='12 February 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1265952703' post='2055698']
What is wrong with reading the Church's teachings on ecumenism? Is the Church in error?

S.
[/quote]

The teachings of the Second Ecumenical Vatican Council are completely correct as interpreted in light of the teachings of previous popes and ecumenical councils.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Skinzo' date='12 February 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1265952703' post='2055698']
Pope Benedict said in his first speech that Christian unity was his priority:
[/quote]

The final canon in the Code of Canon Law states that the salvation of souls is the supreme law of the Church.

[Skinzo]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='12 February 2010 - 01:43 AM' timestamp='1265953411' post='2055704']
The teachings of the Second Ecumenical Vatican Council are completely correct as interpreted in light of the teachings of previous popes and ecumenical councils.
[/quote]

Then you would say that the whole of Vatican II is consistent with "previous popes and ecumenical councils"?

S.

[Skinzo]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='12 February 2010 - 01:48 AM' timestamp='1265953717' post='2055705']
The final canon in the Code of Canon Law states that the salvation of souls is the supreme law of the Church.
[/quote]

So the Pope is in error? The salvation of souls may depend on the recovery of Christian unity as the Decree on ecumenism points out.

S.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Skinzo

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Skinzo' date='12 February 2010 - 12:49 AM' timestamp='1265953792' post='2055706']
Then you would say that the whole of Vatican II is consistent with "previous popes and ecumenical councils"?

S.
[/quote]

The Second Ecumenical Vatican Council is certainly consistent with the teachings of previous popes and ecumenical councils when it is interpreted in light of them.

[Skinzo]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='12 February 2010 - 01:57 AM' timestamp='1265954229' post='2055708']
The Second Ecumenical Vatican Council is certainly consistent with the teachings of previous popes and ecumenical councils when it is interpreted in light of them.
[/quote]

Will the faithful fall into error if they read only Vatican II?

S.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Skinzo' date='12 February 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1265954732' post='2055713']
Will the faithful fall into error if they read only Vatican II?

S.
[/quote]
I think the faithful would fall into error if they limited themselves to any one particular document, no matter how good.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Skinzo' date='12 February 2010 - 01:05 AM' timestamp='1265954732' post='2055713']
Will the faithful fall into error if they read only Vatican II?

S.
[/quote]

Yes. But the same would be so with any one Council.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='11 February 2010 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1265949309' post='2055668']
His Eminence, Cardinal Mahony, was appointed by the Holy Father, as well, and you are never lacking in criticism of him.
[/quote]
So you are saying that Benedict is unaware of what Cardinal Kasper is saying and doing as head of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. Interesting, because that seems to imply that the Pope is not able to control those who head his own curial departments. After all we are not talking about one bishop among some nearly 5,000 Catholic bishops worldwide, but instead we are talking about the head of one of perhaps 30 curial offices all in Rome itself.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

I find it interesting that there seems to be a disconnect between what Cardinal Kasper, the head of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, is saying about the purpose and goals of ecumenism, and what a teenager in the United States is saying about ecumenism.

[Apotheoun]

I find it odd that I got a negative point for stating the obvious.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

Resurrexi: "The purpose of true ecumenism is the conversion of non-Catholics."

Cardinal Kasper: "The aim of ecumenical work is the full communion and the fullness of unity, which cannot be a unitary Church, but a unity in diversity. The way to it is therefore not the return of the others into the fold of the Catholic Church, nor the conversion of individuals to the Catholic Church (even if this must obviously be mutually acknowledged when it is based on reasons of conscience)."

Finally, when speaking about conversion Cardinal Kasper, who was appointed to his office by Pope Benedict himself, says that all involved, i.e., both Catholics and non-Catholics, must experience renewal, purification, and conversion. Here is how he put it: "The Constitution on the Church and the Decree on Ecumenism state expressly that the Church is a pilgrim Church, an ecclesia 'semper purificanda', which must constantly take the way of penance and renewal. Thus, the ecumenical dialogue fulfills the task of an examination of conscience. Ecumenism is not possible without conversion and renewal.

The Catholic Church too is wounded by the divisions of Christianity. Her wounds include the impossibility of concretely realizing fully her own Catholicity in the situation of division. Several aspects of being Church are better realized in the other Churches. Therefore, ecumenism is no one-way street, but a reciprocal learning process, or – as stated in the ecumenical Encyclical 'Ut unum sint' – an exchange of gifts."

[Nihil Obstat]

Apotheoun, in your personal theological opinion, would the ideal Church be one in which, say, Methodists and Pentecostals and Baptists, as well as Orthodox and Catholics are all in full communion corporately, as a set of sui iuris Churches?

Edited February 12, 2010 by Nihil Obstat