Is There A Shortage Of Vocations?

[Indwelling Trinity]

Is there really a shortage of vocations? I took this from a post i made on another thread and thought it might be interesting to a few.

In my mind, One of the pitfalls of the post Vatican II era is that many religious began seeing themselves as professionals before religious. IMNSHO Our life, our work and all the good we may do will only bear lasting fruit if they stem from the quality of our lives as religious men and women of prayer. We came to religious life to belong to Jesus in Love.

Our apostolates whether active or contemplative should by their very nature be an outgrowth of that intimate relationship we have with Christ and His Mother. We are not called to be social workers doctors, administrators etc.. but to be religious first and above all. If we do this the rest will follow.

I think in a very real way the shortage in vocations is in part a result of this putting the cart before the horse so to say, where many religious first identify themselves according to their "secular" profession as opposed to their "religious profession" The statement that there is a shortage of vocations for me is a fallacy.

Look to those communities who have been faithful to their charism, to their life as religious, to prayer,and the church and you will see them flourishing.

When I entered the Missionaries of Charity, before I became a Carmelite, my profession group numbered over 100 young women. The trend is still going but on a quieter level since Mother Teresa's death, and that is as it should be, for mother never wanted notoriety for herself or her sisters.

The same goes for contemplative communities, those that are faithful flower, even in the desert.

Spending time humbly on ones knees before the Lord, is a great place to start discerning ones vocation. Then whatever may come, we will be firmly grounded in His love desiring His will for us alone.

Anybody any other relevant thoughts or experiences? As many of you are the potential future of religious life what do you hold as most important in being a religious or priest today?

I feel like an old timer as I can only identify as a religious today after many years, but I wonder and wish to understand what current vocations seek and see as authentic religious life. Is today's trend in vocations real and lasting or a backlash from an era of a post modern religious identity or lack thereof?

I don't mean to put a bee in anybody's bonnet or cause controversy, but maybe honest answers will help avoid going down future blind alleys in our relationship with God and our identity in the church.

Tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity
This post has been edited by [b]Indwelling Trinity[/b]: Today, 03:40 AM

One thing I ask...This alone I seek...to dwell in the house of the Lord all my days...

Edited February 28, 2010 by Indwelling Trinity

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='28 February 2010 - 06:38 AM' timestamp='1267353510' post='2064183']
Is there really a shortage of vocations?[/quote]

I don't believe there is a shortage in vocations. I believe God is still calling just as much as he has in the past but that fewer are listening to his call. Those that do hear it are more likely to ignore it or choose their own will in this day and age.

[quote]I feel like an old timer as I can only identify as a religious today after many years, but I wonder and wish to understand what current vocations seek and see as authentic religious life. Is today's trend in vocations real and lasting or a backlash from an era of a post modern religious identity or lack thereof?[/quote]

As someone discerning I desire Christ. I desire love. I want something authentic. Something giving. Something faithful. Something beautiful. I want God above all. The work, while important to me, is in the shadows of the reason why I desire to give up everything: Christ. I believe a young discerning woman today is looking for a community that it is obvious is, primarily, living for Christ and seeking holiness and relishing in, serving, and being faithful to all that Christ, the one she seeks, has given us and instructed us.

I think it might be that too. There are so many things that have changed though. It is so much more noisy today. It is so hard to hear. So many don't even have the basic idea of how to even pray. "Success" is, by definition, very different today and is the polar opposite of all that religious life seems to be. Success, in the past, while also sought after came with a realization that to lose one's life was to gain it whereas today that has been all but lost. There is college and college debt that hold people back. There are less religious role models. Less priests. Less religious to look up too and to be guided by. There was the sex-abuse scandals. It is not even considered really as an option for one's life in our culture and there are few today (different in the past) that speak of it to young people. Then there are the same fears that have accompanied those discerning for generations: a fear poverty, obedience, and of a lack of intimacy. I don't know if one can narrow it down to just one thing that has been the primary reason. I am sure there are many reasons why the numbers seem down on statistics when it comes to religious life and the priesthood.

Edited February 28, 2010 by TotusTuusMaria

[KeenanParkerII]

Identifying some good issues here.. Unfortunately, there's a large segment of the Church that has no understanding of their faith, no intimacy with their faith or no sense of a real personal God. Wherever education failed in the Church in the past, personal loyalty to the Church and the good example set by members of the clergy inspired people to seek religious life. But like TTM said, that hasn't exactly been the case in the recent past, or at least perceived to be the case.

Note: We need more male oriented vocation articles/posts/threads.

[HisChild]

I am in agreement with TTM. I think the same amount of people are being called, fewer are choosing religious life.

I also agree with Keenan in that by and large many young people are poorly catechized. Combine that with the fact that religious life isn't as much of a visual presence in our churches as it once was, many don't think of it as an option. The ol' 'out of sight, out of mind' cliche.


[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='28 February 2010 - 08:53 AM' timestamp='1267372420' post='2064233']


Note: We need more male oriented vocation articles/posts/threads.
[/quote]


Very few males post in VS. And therein could begin your ministry!

~mysterious voice~ If you build it, they will come.

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='28 February 2010 - 11:53 AM' timestamp='1267372420' post='2064233']
Identifying some good issues here.. Unfortunately, there's a large segment of the Church that has no understanding of their faith, no intimacy with their faith or no sense of a real personal God. Wherever education failed in the Church in the past, personal loyalty to the Church and the good example set by members of the clergy inspired people to seek religious life. But like TTM said, that hasn't exactly been the case in the recent past, or at least perceived to be the case.

Note: We need more male oriented vocation articles/posts/threads.
[/quote]

Agrees with both Keenan and His child we need more of a male presence on line and to be open and make space for that.

[Indwelling Trinity]

I agree that catechesis today is very poor even with our Catechists not being able to go beyond the mere surface of our Faith. And as far as liturgy goes, it seems we have lost sight of that vertical dimension of the Mass in favor of the horizontal "we" as community. So often there is no longer a sense of the sacred any longer; a sense which in a very real way does draw souls to Christ.

I myself feel like i have been in the desert for years thirsting for that true reverence of joining in with the priest at mass offering ourselves as sacrifice, atonement and thanksgiving to God. It was Elizabeth of the Trinity who said the "religious like the priest offers herself as a holocaust for souls." (paraphrased).

I remember when i made my confirmation and this was at the height of the changes of the council. In those days the Bishop gave you a tiny saluatory slap on the face indicating your willingness to suffer for and be confirmed in your devotion to Christ. It made a tremendous impression on me that remains to this day. In fact it confirmed me in the grace and determination to give my life for God.

Speaking for myself only, I don't think changing everything to Latin is the answer. What is most needed is to regain that sense of reverence before God calling us to respond to him in Love. That reverence I think is in part silence in order to hear his voice speaking to our hearts. He still whispers "will you comfort me" from the cross, but without this silent reverence yes it is hard to hear his voice today. And folks.... more folk masses and get togethers are just not going to cut it. It hasn't in the past and it will not now.

With better catechesis, regained reverence and yes visible lived devotion to Christ as witnessed by priests and religious and future religious, as truly belonging to God rather than portraying a secualar savvy so to say which i think only deters vocations, I think the number of vocations for Christ in this day and age would be legion both in the priesthood and religious life. And in a world that has all but forgotten God... a legion is needed to make him known once again. A legion of true lovers.

I think the best witness we can give, both as religious and discerners is by our lives of prayer and lived witness. If we are ashamed of Christ, he will be ashamed of us before His Father.

Maybe it is time for us to heal, stop bemoaning our losses, pain and the shortcomings of the church in which many of us have been to hell and back... myself included, and begin to be proactive in our witness to Christ and each other even while waiting to find our "perfect community." There are two kinds of waiting.. the kind that wastes time waiting for things to fall into our lap.. and there is a holy waiting, using each moment to love and become all we can through prayer penance and good works until the time comes for us to utter that "Yes" in love. It is a yes we have to pronounce each day of our live if we wish to reach true holiness and union with God.

This waiting although seemingly passive is in reality activity at its greatest level as the Holy Spirit works silently within us calling us into being in the deepest sense of the word.

Here on vocation station we have a pretty tight community blessed with a variety of charisms and even though we are for the most part not spiritual directors, we can be a supportive group in fleshing out what we want to make of our life in Christ. Being open to others and concentrating more on spirituality and the things that matter to us so that with the help of the Holy Spirit we can truly say that "YES" without reserve to Christ. Let us not be afraid of embracing the Cross but rather help each other to bear it in love.

Finally let us give up blame, anger or hurt that many of us have experienced before in religious life. Our superiors are human too and make mistakes. Let us learn from that pain to be more compassionate, less judging of others and more tolerant in allowing ourselves and others to grow. And when some day when some of you are superiors and novice mistresses or masters...remember that all good growth takes time and be careful not to put out the smoldering wick of one who struggles or break the bruised reed.

We are all the poorest of the poor and humble acknowledgement combined with a tender, loving, listening and obedient heart does make all things sweet For we then become like our master who was meek and humble of heart: and that love can make saints out of us with God's grace!

I may be a fool but i do trust many on this list even if we differ at times and in calling; and being united in love as one body we can help effect healing and even at this moment we can live out our love for Jesus in a very real and tangible way.

Just my thoughts.... OK...You can shoot me now!

Tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity:shield:

Edited February 28, 2010 by Indwelling Trinity

[LightofMary]

The shortage of vocations may be deeply felt here in the US but it is not so in other countries. Asia and Africa are providing the traditionally abundant First world with priestly and religious vocations. So shortage is all relative.

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='LightofMary' date='28 February 2010 - 02:32 PM' timestamp='1267381944' post='2064295']
The shortage of vocations may be deeply felt here in the US but it is not so in other countries. Asia and Africa are providing the traditionally abundant First world with priestly and religious vocations. So shortage is all relative.
[/quote]

I should have stipulated that i was referring to American and European vocation crisis. Africa and Asia have not undergone the same level of post councilar upheavals as we have... Mea Culpa for not being clearer! LOL:sadder:

Edited February 28, 2010 by Indwelling Trinity

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]I agree that catechesis today is very poor even with our Catechists not being able to go beyond the mere surface of our Faith. And as far as liturgy goes, it seems we have lost sight of that vertical dimension of the Mass in favor of the horizontal "we" as community. So often there is no longer a sense of the sacred any longer; a sense which in a very real way does draw souls to Christ.

I myself feel like i have been in the desert for years thirsting for that true reverence of joining in with the priest at mass offering ourselves as sacrifice, atonement and thanksgiving to God. It was Elizabeth of the Trinity who said the "religious like the priest offers herself as a holocaust for souls." (paraphrased).

I remember when i made my confirmation and this was at the height of the changes of the council. In those days the Bishop gave you a tiny saluatory slap on the face indicating your willingness to suffer for and be confirmed in your devotion to Christ. It made a tremendous impression on me that remains to this day. In fact it confirmed me in the grace and determination to give my life for God.

Speaking for myself only, I don't think changing everything to Latin is the answer. What is most needed is to regain that sense of reverence before God calling us to respond to him in Love. That reverence I think is in part silence in order to hear his voice speaking to our hearts. He still whispers "will you comfort me" from the cross, but without this silent reverence yes it is hard to hear his voice today. And folks.... more folk masses and get togethers are just not going to cut it. It hasn't in the past and it will not now.

With better catechesis, regained reverence and yes visible lived devotion to Christ as witnessed by priests and religious and future religious, as truly belonging to God rather than portraying a secualar savvy so to say which i think only deters vocations, I think the number of vocations for Christ in this day and age would be legion both in the priesthood and religious life. And in a world that has all but forgotten God... a legion is needed to make him known once again. A legion of true lovers.

I think the best witness we can give, both as religious and discerners is by our lives of prayer and lived witness. If we are ashamed of Christ, he will be ashamed of us before His Father.

Maybe it is time for us to heal, stop bemoaning our losses, pain and the shortcomings of the church in which many of us have been to hell and back... myself included, and begin to be proactive in our witness to Christ and each other even while waiting to find our "perfect community." There are two kinds of waiting.. the kind that wastes time waiting for things to fall into our lap.. and there is a holy waiting, using each moment to love and become all we can through prayer penance and good works until the time comes for us to utter that "Yes" in love. It is a yes we have to pronounce each day of our live if we wish to reach true holiness and union with God.

This waiting although seemingly passive is in reality activity at its greatest level as the Holy Spirit works silently within us calling us into being in the deepest sense of the word.

Here on vocation station we have a pretty tight community blessed with a variety of charisms and even though we are for the most part not spiritual directors, we can be a supportive group in fleshing out what we want to make of our life in Christ. Being open to others and concentrating more on spirituality and the things that matter to us so that with the help of the Holy Spirit we can truly say that "YES" without reserve to Christ. Let us not be afraid of embracing the Cross but rather help each other to bear it in love.

Finally let us give up blame, anger or hurt that many of us have experienced before in religious life. Our superiors are human too and make mistakes. Let us learn from that pain to be more compassionate, less judging of others and more tolerant in allowing ourselves and others to grow. And when some day when some of you are superiors and novice mistresses or masters...remember that all good growth takes time and be careful not to put out the smoldering wick of one who struggles or break the bruised reed.

We are all the poorest of the poor and humble acknowledgement combined with a tender, loving, listening and obedient heart does make all things sweet For we then become like our master who was meek and humble of heart: and that love can make saints out of us with God's grace!

I may be a fool but i do trust many on this list even if we differ at times and in calling; and being united in love as one body we can help effect healing and even at this moment we can live out our love for Jesus in a very real and tangible way.

Just my thoughts.... OK...You can shoot me now!

Tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity:shield:[/quote]

Shoot you? I want to hug you. This post deserves a +5.

I'm very partial to that explanation, that we've sacrificed depth for horizontal coverage. The root of the problem definitely lies in understanding and a spirit of piousness.

Small things could help. We should have weekly classes on the Catechism, Tradition, Scripture and Latin. We could have a little stack of handouts outlining the homily. We need men's and women's retreats, lead by Priests or religious lay men and women. But most of all, I think we need to promote loyalty to the Papa and the Church. One cradle Catholic I spoke to was completely shocked to discover I was a convert. She actually didn't believe that the Church did that anymore. When the faithful lose conviction, the people lose faith! And we know the vocations will suffer..

But there is a lot of hope on the horizon. A lot of people support the EF because it's traditional, but a lot of people support it because it does seem to have more depth. The Catholic population actually grew this year, as well as the Priesthood! A new Missal is being released which is more true to the mysteries of the Mass! The non-radical Protestants are returning home more and more!

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='28 February 2010 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1267383631' post='2064312']
Shoot you? I want to hug you. This post deserves a +5.

I'm very partial to that explanation, that we've sacrificed depth for horizontal coverage. The root of the problem definitely lies in understanding and a spirit of piousness.

Small things could help. We should have weekly classes on the Catechism, Tradition, Scripture and Latin. We could have a little stack of handouts outlining the homily. We need men's and women's retreats, lead by Priests or religious lay men and women. But most of all, I think we need to promote loyalty to the Papa and the Church. One cradle Catholic I spoke to was completely shocked to discover I was a convert. She actually didn't believe that the Church did that anymore. When the faithful lose conviction, the people lose faith! And we know the vocations will suffer..

But there is a lot of hope on the horizon. A lot of people support the EF because it's traditional, but a lot of people support it because it does seem to have more depth. The Catholic population actually grew this year, as well as the Priesthood! A new Missal is being released which is more true to the mysteries of the Mass! The non-radical Protestants are returning home more and more!
[/quote]

Yes there is a new spring coming... but we need to ever deepen it spiritually and maintain growth interiorly so it does not just become a flash in the pan.

Yes the church is growing but also many are going to the easten expression of the catholic church looking for that vertical dimension. Like you I am looking forward to the new missal as i do not understand church latin. I am also awaiting eagerly for the new edition of the 1963 breviary romanum now in its final stages of approval.

Some of the small things you mention could happen right here on vocation station if there was enough interest, taking some of our sharing to a deeper level involving a multitude of topics relevant to the priestly and religious life, each sharing what they know with others whether it be sharing together things like what vita consecrata and other papal writing mean concretely to us or just sharing and listening to our personal communal charisms. The would still be plenty of space for the ususal chat that brings support and fellowship. But all of this depends on the others too and their own desires.

tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='28 February 2010 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1267383631' post='2064312']
Shoot you? I want to hug you. This post deserves a +5.

I'm very partial to that explanation, that we've sacrificed depth for horizontal coverage. The root of the problem definitely lies in understanding and a spirit of piousness.

Small things could help. We should have weekly classes on the Catechism, Tradition, Scripture and Latin. We could have a little stack of handouts outlining the homily. We need men's and women's retreats, lead by Priests or religious lay men and women. But most of all, I think we need to promote loyalty to the Papa and the Church. One cradle Catholic I spoke to was completely shocked to discover I was a convert. She actually didn't believe that the Church did that anymore. When the faithful lose conviction, the people lose faith! And we know the vocations will suffer..

But there is a lot of hope on the horizon. A lot of people support the EF because it's traditional, but a lot of people support it because it does seem to have more depth. The Catholic population actually grew this year, as well as the Priesthood! A new Missal is being released which is more true to the mysteries of the Mass! The non-radical Protestants are returning home more and more!
[/quote]

Keenan... praying for you and your discernment... in time you may very well be one of those great souls bringing Christ to others if you are not already doing so by your example.

[Ephrem Augustine]

I think we are looking at this all wrong.

Catholics have always been an odd bunch on the fringes of popular and acceptable american society.

It was odd the way religious orders became so highly institutional, constructing grand palaces, seminaries, and monasteries across the country. It was more of a Henry Ford model of a formation, analyze the vocation on externals, and assemble them on an assembly line of formation. To be honest, from what I do hear from the older guys that reform was needed and called for.

Blaming this on the Reform is quite selfish and pessimistic, I believe. Because in the scope of forty years is a few hours in the life space of the Church, who has always had its share of troubles and dramas, and always seems to recover. It would be quite impossible to find a time in the Church without so called Crisis.

I could really speak on an on about this issue... But I won't because by now you have finished reading my point.

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' date='28 February 2010 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1267387072' post='2064374']
I think we are looking at this all wrong.

Catholics have always been an odd bunch on the fringes of popular and acceptable american society.

It was odd the way religious orders became so highly institutional, constructing grand palaces, seminaries, and monasteries across the country. It was more of a Henry Ford model of a formation, analyze the vocation on externals, and assemble them on an assembly line of formation. To be honest, from what I do hear from the older guys that reform was needed and called for.

Blaming this on the Reform is quite selfish and pessimistic, I believe. Because in the scope of forty years is a few hours in the life space of the Church, who has always had its share of troubles and dramas, and always seems to recover. It would be quite impossible to find a time in the Church without so called Crisis.

I could really speak on an on about this issue... But I won't because by now you have finished reading my point.
[/quote]

I agree with you as far as the cookie cutter mold of religious and priestly life goes. That was a problem way before the council. But i do think the reform was not implemented properly either... too much haste and not enough integration.

tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]I think we are looking at this all wrong.

Catholics have always been an odd bunch on the fringes of popular and acceptable american society.

It was odd the way religious orders became so highly institutional, constructing grand palaces, seminaries, and monasteries across the country. It was more of a Henry Ford model of a formation, analyze the vocation on externals, and assemble them on an assembly line of formation. To be honest, from what I do hear from the older guys that reform was needed and called for.

Blaming this on the Reform is quite selfish and pessimistic, I believe. Because in the scope of forty years is a few hours in the life space of the Church, who has always had its share of troubles and dramas, and always seems to recover. It would be quite impossible to find a time in the Church without so called Crisis.

I could really speak on an on about this issue... But I won't because by now you have finished reading my point.[/quote]

I just don't see how that accounts for the drop in vocations if they were always on the fringe? We're not discussing this in a spirit of selfishness or pessimism. We are very hopeful. IT makes the point that we must be as charitable as possible to those before us.

[quote]Yes there is a new spring coming... but we need to ever deepen it spiritually and maintain growth interiorly so it does not just become a flash in the pan.

Yes the church is growing but also many are going to the easten expression of the catholic church looking for that vertical dimension. Like you I am looking forward to the new missal as i do not understand church latin. I am also awaiting eagerly for the new edition of the 1963 breviary romanum now in its final stages of approval.

Some of the small things you mention could happen right here on vocation station if there was enough interest, taking some of our sharing to a deeper level involving a multitude of topics relevant to the priestly and religious life, each sharing what they know with others whether it be sharing together things like what vita consecrata and other papal writing mean concretely to us or just sharing and listening to our personal communal charisms. The would still be plenty of space for the ususal chat that brings support and fellowship. But all of this depends on the others too and their own desires.

tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity [/quote]
[quote]Keenan... praying for you and your discernment... in time you may very well be one of those great souls bringing Christ to others if you are not already doing so by your example.[/quote]

I may have to consider getting something started.. It could be a very valuable experience for myself as well as everyone participating. Thank you for your prayers IT! May God make examples of both of us, examples to follow that is!

Edited February 28, 2010 by KeenanParkerII

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='28 February 2010 - 04:04 PM' timestamp='1267387475' post='2064380']
I just don't see how that accounts for the drop in vocations if they were always on the fringe? We're not discussing this in a spirit of selfishness or pessimism. We are very hopeful. IT makes the point that we must be as charitable as possible to those before us.




I may have to consider getting something started.. It could be a very valuable experience for myself as well as everyone participating. Thank you for your prayers IT! May God make examples of both of us, examples to follow that is!
[/quote]

Laughing Keenan... looks like His child put a fire under you! I say May God make examples of all of us... the best example is meekness and humility but with firm resolve to follow Christ. Jesus meek an humble of heart, make my heart like unto thine for there is still too much pride in me!

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='28 February 2010 - 05:38 AM' timestamp='1267353510' post='2064183']
Is there really a shortage of vocations? I took this from a post i made on another thread and thought it might be interesting to a few.

In my mind, One of the pitfalls of the post Vatican II era is that many religious began seeing themselves as professionals before religious. IMNSHO Our life, our work and all the good we may do will only bear lasting fruit if they stem from the quality of our lives as religious men and women of prayer. We came to religious life to belong to Jesus in Love.

I think in a very real way the shortage in vocations is in part a result of this putting the cart before the horse so to say, where many religious first identify themselves according to their "secular" profession as opposed to their "religious profession" The statement that there is a shortage of vocations for me is a fallacy.

Our apostolates whether active or contemplative should by their very nature be an outgrowth of that intimate relationship we have with Christ and His Mother. We are not called to be social workers doctors, administrators etc.. but to be religious first and above all. If we do this the rest will follow. [/quote]

I think that you have hit on something very important in understanding religious life within culture. For me that culture is the culture of the US. I think most of us in the twenty-thirty range (and others, but I can only speak for myself) have been hearing our whole lives that what matters is what we do. Who we are is dependent on what we do. It is part of the reason that life is respected only insofar as it produces something in our culture. I don't think anyone can be completely free from the cultural expectations they grow up experiencing. Religious life, although set apart, still exists within a certain time and place. We are not immune to the changes in the political, social, or educational spheres of life and each candidate brings with her/him self the experiences outside of religious life. On one hand, we need to be affected by the world because we have a great opportunity to promote Gospel values and be a voice for others. We need to be a witness. However, if we stop being a witness and end up instead as a participant we let too much of the political, social, and educational ideas penetrate our lives we lose some of the essentials of religious life. Especially the essential of belonging to Jesus in love! We don't belong to the world as a teacher, nurse, counselor... etc. We belong to Jesus as His. Everything else is important but secondary.

[quote]Look to those communities who have been faithful to their charism, to their life as religious, to prayer,and the church and you will see them flourishing.

When I entered the Missionaries of Charity, before I became a Carmelite, my profession group numbered over 100 young women. The trend is still going but on a quieter level since Mother Teresa's death, and that is as it should be, for mother never wanted notoriety for herself or her sisters.

The same goes for contemplative communities, those that are faithful flower, even in the desert.

Spending time humbly on ones knees before the Lord, is a great place to start discerning ones vocation. Then whatever may come, we will be firmly grounded in His love desiring His will for us alone.

Anybody any other relevant thoughts or experiences? As many of you are the potential future of religious life what do you hold as most important in being a religious or priest today?[/quote]

I think that the most important thing in being a religious today is fidelity. This fidelity must be to the church, to a particular religious family, and to ministry (whether that be prayer or an apostolate outside the convent home). The secularization that has occurred in religious life has made fidelity very difficult at times. The spirit of a community is essential to living fidelity and if it has bent to the desires of the secular realm - what is there to be faithful to? We need to hold fast to God. A wise sister once said to me "Remember who you are, and whose you are, and you will be a fine religious." It sounds simple but is a tall order. I recall those words often as I examine my conscience and they encompass the fidelity that I am trying to live out in my own religious vocation.

[quote]I feel like an old timer as I can only identify as a religious today after many years, but I wonder and wish to understand what current vocations seek and see as authentic religious life. Is today's trend in vocations real and lasting or a backlash from an era of a post modern religious identity or lack thereof?[/quote]

I really like this question! I think that it is both real and lasting and a response to an era of "post modern religious identity or lack thereof"! I really believe that all experiences that God allows us to have in His good Will make us who He wants us to be. If he has allowed me to see the error in the loss of religious identity and to respond to that in my own religious life then I am still living a real and lasting, authentic religious life. God uses everything for His good.

[vee]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='28 February 2010 - 12:15 PM' timestamp='1267377329' post='2064266']


I remember when i made my confirmation and this was at the height of the changes of the council. In those days the Bishop gave you a tiny saluatory slap on the face indicating your willingness to suffer for and be confirmed in your devotion to Christ. It made a tremendous impression on me that remains to this day. In fact it confirmed me in the grace and determination to give my life for God.


[/quote]

I was confirmed when I was a teen in the 90s... 1990s not 1890s that is and I got a gentle slap too. I needed it!!

[Nunsense]

I'm not so sure that there is a 'shortage' of vocations because that would imply that there is some number that would be adequate or sufficient. I think there has been a drop in vocations since the Council but then there was also an increase in the number of people leaving religious life as well. When I first started discerning religious life in the early 70s, people were leaving, nuns were taking off their habits, and I felt as if there was no place for me to go where I could actually become a nun!

The Apostolic Visitation of the US convents is a sign that the existing communities need some help if we are to expect an increase in vocations again. Even if there were women pounding on the doors, would they stay in communities that don't want to be faithful to the teachings of the Church, or would they want to enter in the first place? Young women are therefore attracted to communitities like the Nashville Dominicans because of their traditionalism and faithfulness. Older women are facing problems of their own too, even if they do want to enter. And priests have to deal with the scandals and bad seminaries.

The Church as a whole needs our prayers to heal. We need to start with good seminaries and good priests, so the faithful can be guided well. We need to train good catechists to remind the faithful just what their Faith is all about. Then vocations will naturally come as a result of the faithful living faithful lives.

God does write straight with crooked lines though, so what happened with the Council can be used for our good. The times were what they were, and the players in the game at the time did what they thought was best. Now we have to work with the results of that time, and move forward, knowing what we know now.

The liturgy is an important part of that return to the sacred, and our prayers need to be that the Church restores the liturgy in a way that is both relatable for the millions of Catholic who don't want to go back to the Latin, while still helping the faithful to focus on the fact that the Mass is a sacrifice and not a social event.

I am very hopeful for the future of the Church, and vocations are just a small part of that. In airplanes there is one pin that is key in holding the wing onto the plane. My Dad was a pilot, and he told me they referred to this metal pin as the 'Jesus bolt' because without it, the plane falls apart. In the Church, apart from Jesus, who is our Jesus bolt, our key pins are priests and the liturgy. Without these, there is no Mass, no Sacraments, no Catholic Church (might as well be Protestant then). If we can pray for these to be set right, then vocations will fall into place again.

My humble opinion.

Edited February 28, 2010 by nunsense

[HisChild]

[quote name='vee8' date='28 February 2010 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1267393874' post='2064432']
I was confirmed when I was a teen in the 90s... 1990s not 1890s that is and I got a gentle slap too. I needed it!!
[/quote]


Phooey. I was confirmed in the 80s and got no such slap. Who knows how I would have turned out if I had.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' date='28 February 2010 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1267387072' post='2064374']
I think we are looking at this all wrong.

Catholics have always been an odd bunch on the fringes of popular and acceptable american society.

It was odd the way religious orders became so highly institutional, constructing grand palaces, seminaries, and monasteries across the country. It was more of a Henry Ford model of a formation, analyze the vocation on externals, and assemble them on an assembly line of formation. To be honest, from what I do hear from the older guys that reform was needed and called for.

Blaming this on the Reform is quite selfish and pessimistic, I believe. Because in the scope of forty years is a few hours in the life space of the Church, who has always had its share of troubles and dramas, and always seems to recover. It would be quite impossible to find a time in the Church without so called Crisis.

I could really speak on an on about this issue... But I won't because by now you have finished reading my point.
[/quote]

Vatican II was not the problem. A reform was a good idea, but the way it was implemented after the council is where problems arose.