ThePenciledOne Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 So, we must of course rip people away from their customs and tell them to follow a whole new thing in order to find their way to the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='08 August 2010 - 08:51 PM' timestamp='1281311487' post='2154340'] I would rather pray before icons of Christ and the Theotokos in a Christian Temple that contains the Holy Eucharist. [/quote] Then do so? This thread is, of course, not about Christians praying at all. It's about a charity, that provides materials for the Jewish celebration of Passover. If you don't think [i]Jews[/i] should celebrate Passover...that's weird, but okay, whatever. Don't donate to this particular charity then. You claim that any participation would make you a heretic, which I take to be a rather strained understanding of the situation. [i]NOSTRA AETATE[/i] (1965) guides Catholic relationships with other religions (including the Jews). The whole text may be read [url=http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html]HERE[/url]. Some relevant parts include: [quote]The Church keeps ever in mind the words of the Apostle about his kinsmen: "theirs is the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the law and the worship and the promises; theirs are the fathers and from them is the Christ according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:4-5), the Son of the Virgin Mary. She also recalls that the Apostles, the Church's main-stay and pillars, as well as most of the early disciples who proclaimed Christ's Gospel to the world, sprang from the Jewish people. As Holy Scripture testifies, Jerusalem did not recognize the time of her visitation,nor did the Jews in large number, accept the Gospel; indeed not a few opposed its spreading. Nevertheless, God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes or of the calls He issues-such is the witness of the Apostle.(Rom. 11:28-29) In company with the Prophets and the same Apostle, the Church awaits that day, known to God alone, on which all peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and "serve him shoulder to shoulder" (Soph. 3:9). Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this sacred synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as of fraternal dialogues. ... We cannot truly call on God, the Father of all, if we refuse to treat in a brotherly way any man, created as he is in the image of God. Man's relation to God the Father and his relation to men his brothers are so linked together that Scripture says: "He who does not love does not know God" (1 John 4:8). No foundation therefore remains for any theory or practice that leads to discrimination between man and man or people and people, so far as their human dignity and the rights flowing from it are concerned. [/quote] Basically, yes, Christians aren't Jews, but Jews are Jews, and until/unless they convert, we should acknowledge that about them. And Christian charity should always guide our interactions with all people. Maybe people living in Russia have other needs, or maybe you are devoting your efforts to helping people elsewhere in the world. But if you are going to deny Christian charity and replace it only with literature, then that faith seems to be a bit weak in practice. I understand that love is guided by the truth. But if you lose the love when you uphold the truth...that's not the fullness of truth, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='MithLuin' date='09 August 2010 - 12:38 AM' timestamp='1281332315' post='2154521'] Then do so? This thread is, of course, not about Christians praying at all. It's about a charity, that provides materials for the Jewish celebration of Passover. If you don't think [i]Jews[/i] should celebrate Passover...that's weird, but okay, whatever. [/quote] I don't think anyone should celebrate the Passover because I don't think anyone should be non-Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I do not believe anyone should practice something that displeases God. Nor should Catholics financially support something that displeases God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I don't think the celebration of Passover displeases God (He [i]ordained[/i] it, for goodness sakes!) I agree that it is unnecessary for Christians, but, newsflash, not everyone in the world is Catholic. So, how do you propose we deal with that reality (in a Christian manner)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='MithLuin' date='09 August 2010 - 12:58 AM' timestamp='1281333489' post='2154526'] I don't think the celebration of Passover displeases God (He [i]ordained[/i] it, for goodness sakes!) [/quote] He also abolished it, and, though His Church, condemned its practice after the promulgation of the Gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='MithLuin' date='09 August 2010 - 01:58 AM' timestamp='1281333489' post='2154526'] I don't think the celebration of Passover displeases God (He [i]ordained[/i] it, for goodness sakes!) I agree that it is unnecessary for Christians, but, newsflash, not everyone in the world is Catholic. So, how do you propose we deal with that reality (in a Christian manner)? [/quote] The religious practices of the Old Law once pleased God, that is no longer so, and such practices are now in vain and do not please God. Only the worship of Mother Church pleases God. We deal with the reality that most of the world is in darkness by bringing them to the light, or praying for their souls. We certain do not support false religions vain worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='09 August 2010 - 01:02 AM' timestamp='1281333768' post='2154529'] The religious practices of the Old Law once pleased God, that is no longer so, and such practices are now in vain and do not please God. Only the worship of Mother Church pleases God. We deal with the reality that most of the world is in darkness by bringing them to the light, or praying for their souls. We certain do not support false religions vain worship. [/quote] This is an excellent post, Knight. Thank you for explaining the truth in clear language for all to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyOfSorrows Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='MithLuin' date='09 August 2010 - 12:58 AM' timestamp='1281333489' post='2154526'] I don't think the celebration of Passover displeases God (He [i]ordained[/i] it, for goodness sakes!) I agree that it is unnecessary for Christians, but, newsflash, not everyone in the world is Catholic. So, how do you propose we deal with that reality (in a Christian manner)? [/quote] They don't have a proposition it seems. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img] By the way, I have to say, nice article. PJPII was very big on Christian/Jewish unity, which is why he was very successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennn Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) If I truly love the Jews, than I want them to be saved. And if I want them to be saved, than I will not encourage them to keep adhering to the dead works of the Mosaïc Law. The rites of the Old Testament were only meant as types until the true Sacrifice would take place, which it did. In the Tantum Ergo hymn, this is beautifully worded: "Behold, over ancient forms passing, newer Rites of grace appear." And this does in no way mean that Catholics do not acknowledge the fact that the Old Testamentic rites and practices were divinely instituted. It means that they have been brought to fulfillment in the true Cultus, which has been established by Christ in His holy and apostolic Church, which is the true Temple of God. Padre Pio was also accused of not being charitable. He answered: "Please do not use the argument of charity against me, because the greatest act of charity is snatching souls away from the power of satan into the hands of Christ." The Jews are the children of the promise. But it does not make sense to stick to the shadows of anticipation, when the dawn of Truth has come. Now is the day of salvation, says Saint Paul. Let all go through the narrow gate of the Gospel, into the eternal gardens of Gods life. Edited August 9, 2010 by Bennn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='09 August 2010 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1281333768' post='2154529'] The religious practices of the Old Law once pleased God, that is no longer so, and such practices are now in vain and do not please God. Only the worship of Mother Church pleases God. We deal with the reality that most of the world is in darkness by bringing them to the light, or praying for their souls. We certain do not support false religions vain worship. [/quote] The Church says [quote][b]839 [/b]"Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways." [i]The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People[/i]. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God." The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." [/quote] [quote] This is an excellent post, Knight. Thank you for explaining the truth in clear language for all to read.[/quote] and from Nostra aetate [quote][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone. [/size][/font][/quote] One should not thank someone for anti-semitic comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennn Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1281363319' post='2154601'] The Church says and from Nostra aetate One should not thank someone for anti-semitic comments. [/quote] I firmly believe this to be a false accusation. Their comments have not been anti-semitic, nor have they denied the link which Catholicism has with the Hebrew people. We have merely stated that their cultus is no longer of any use, and should no longer be adhered to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Bennn' date='09 August 2010 - 10:58 AM' timestamp='1281365927' post='2154611'] I firmly believe this to be a false accusation. Their comments have not been anti-semitic, nor have they denied the link which Catholicism has with the Hebrew people. We have merely stated that their cultus is no longer of any use, and should no longer be adhered to. [/quote] [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='09 August 2010 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1281333768' post='2154529'] The religious practices of the Old Law once pleased God, that is no longer so, and s[b]uch practices are now in vain and do not please God.[/b] Only the worship of Mother Church pleases God. We deal with the reality that most of the world is in darkness by bringing them to the light, or praying for their souls. We certain do not support false religions vain worship. [/quote] Many, including the Holy Father would disagree with this statement. "The practices of the Jews are in vain and displeasing to God" is clearly an anti-semitic statement.The Catholic Church does not teach that the practices of the Jewish people are in vain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 11:15 AM' timestamp='1281366935' post='2154615'] Many, including the Holy Father would disagree with this statement. "The practices of the Jews are in vain and displeasing to God" is clearly an anti-semitic statement.The Catholic Church does not teach that the practices of the Jewish people are in vain. [/quote] How is that antisemitism? I was unaware that such a comment equates to hostility against Jews or an intense hatred of Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 August 2010 - 11:21 AM' timestamp='1281367297' post='2154618'] How is that antisemitism? I was unaware that such a comment equates to hostility against Jews or an intense hatred of Jews. [/quote] If I told you that your religious practice was in vain and actually displeased God (the act that you were certain pleased God) You wouldn't take offense? And since when is antisemitism defined by "intense" hatred? Are you suggesting mild hatred is allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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