Bennn Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1281379418' post='2154741'] I've never once suggested that the institution of the Church has not changed laws. But the Nature of God has not changed. God is no more displeased with Jewish practices than he is with the fact that my parents chose to circumcise me as an infant. [/quote] When it is done for medical reasons, there is no fault. When it is done with religious intentions, then one is rendering void service to God, while He has established the true means of worshipping Him through His Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1281379496' post='2154743'] Since it was prior, it bears no relevance to justifying KoC's antisemitic comment. [/quote] It really is a pity that Knight is not here to defend himself from such a sad accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 August 2010 - 02:45 PM' timestamp='1281379552' post='2154747'] It really is a pity that Knight is not here to defend himself from such a sad accusation. [/quote] I also hold out the hope that KoC will come back and recognize his error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennn Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 08:47 PM' timestamp='1281379628' post='2154748'] I also hold out the hope that KoC will come back and recognize his error. [/quote] ... which is not what HCF said. Come one, why be like that. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 02:47 PM' timestamp='1281379628' post='2154748'] I also hold out the hope that KoC will come back and recognize his error. [/quote] A pity there was no error. Or rather, thanks be to God that Knight is an [s]orthodox[/s] traditional Catholic who loves Mother Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 August 2010 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1281379799' post='2154750'] A pity there was [s]no[/s] error. Or rather, thanks be to God that Knight is an [s]orthodox[/s] traditional Catholic who loves Mother Church. [/quote] Then he should have no problem following her teachings and recognizing his error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Bennn' date='09 August 2010 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1281379722' post='2154749'] ... which is not what HCF said. Come one, why be like that. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif[/img] [/quote] I wasn't suggesting that she felt that way. I was saying that I was (aside from correcting all of you) hoping that KoC would come back and realize the error and retract his antisemitic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I think the root of the problem lies in the characterization of Jewish worship as "displeasing." As though God is actively annoyed or angered by their celebration of Passover. The Church says clearly in some very important documents that non-Christian religions, in their attempts to offer true worship to God as they understand Him, have some fragments of light, even if they are merely rays reflected from the fullness of Truth. I think it's more orthodox, and much more Catholic, to say that God is pleased by their desire to please Him, but He would be much better pleased by their conversion and adherence to the full Truth as found in His Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 August 2010 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1281379478' post='2154742'] No one said that God has changed. Please provide the quote where that was stated. Thank you. [/quote] Please and thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennn Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1281379973' post='2154753'] I wasn't suggesting that she felt that way. I was saying that I was (aside from correcting all of you) hoping that KoC would come back and realize the error and retract his antisemitic statement. [/quote] We do not believe that his statement was either against Church teaching, or anti-semitic. You clearly do believe so. What is the point in repeating our points over and over again without supporting them with arguments? I simply fear that this is going to turn into a flame war instead of a debate. Edited August 9, 2010 by Bennn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 02:50 PM' timestamp='1281379854' post='2154751'] Then he should have no problem following her teachings and recognizing his error. [/quote] I am confident in saying that he follows Her teachings to the fullest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 August 2010 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1281380137' post='2154758'] I am confident in saying that he follows Her teachings to the fullest. [/quote] I have no doubt he tries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Maggie' date='09 August 2010 - 12:53 PM' timestamp='1281380007' post='2154754'] I think the root of the problem lies in the characterization of Jewish worship as "displeasing." As though God is actively annoyed or angered by their celebration of Passover. The Church says clearly in some very important documents that non-Christian religions, in their attempts to offer true worship to God as they understand Him, have some fragments of light, even if they are merely rays reflected from the fullness of Truth. I think it's more orthodox, and much more Catholic, to say that God is pleased by their desire to please Him, but He would be much better pleased by their conversion and adherence to the full Truth as found in His Church. [/quote] I agree with this. I was also a little uncomfortable with Knight's statement that these practices do not please God, because it has been my understanding that Catholic belief allows for the possibility of salvation for those who worship God in Truth to the degree they know it. I'm not sure I would have characterized his statement as anti-semitic, but it doesn't quite comport with Catholic teaching as I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Look this is pretty easy folks If you would like to find anything professed by the Church that states that God is displeased by the practices of Jewish faith, I'll shut up. You won't be able to because the Church has never ever made that statement. Nor will it ever. [quote]To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." [/quote] God is not displeased. The Church states it and it is NOT my interpretation. *edit (not that I need to note this) If you can argue against the Catechism quote listed, I'll absolutely shut up. Otherwise I will point out when someone is making a statement that is contrary to Church teaching and is antisemitic on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennn Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Maggie' date='09 August 2010 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1281380007' post='2154754'] I think the root of the problem lies in the characterization of Jewish worship as "displeasing." As though God is actively annoyed or angered by their celebration of Passover. The Church says clearly in some very important documents that non-Christian religions, in their attempts to offer true worship to God as they understand Him, have some fragments of light, even if they are merely rays reflected from the fullness of Truth. I think it's more orthodox, and much more Catholic, to say that God is pleased by their desire to please Him, but He would be much better pleased by their conversion and adherence to the full Truth as found in His Church. [/quote] Wilfull or invincible ignorance are the criteria to distinguish whether those acts are pleasing to God or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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