Providing Passover Boxes To Jews In Russia

[Apotheoun]

Christ fulfilled the Old Law, as St. Leo the Great said, and so the old rituals are devoid of grace, which means that they are not to be celebrated any longer. Christ's sacrifice alone is acceptable to God the Father, and the Church's liturgy is the remembrance of Christ's saving deeds.

[MithLuin]

Ah. So, as long as the Russian Jews are not being willfully ignorant of the worship desired by God, then it is pleasing to God when they celebrate the Passover meal. That is good to know.

And if we want them to become aware of the teachings of the Christian faith, one small token of evangelization would be to provide material charity for them. For those living in poverty, words of love without deeds would seem empty indeed, and for those shivering in the cold, the truth alone might seem a bit cold. Love and truth are both essential components of our faith; you can't neglect either one.

In THIS case, one suggestion has been to provide them with a gift basket to allow them to celebrate their own faith as best they know how. It's hardly the only way. One could contribute to CNEWA, which would provide assistance to those in Russia and nearby countries. [url=http://www.cnewa.org/donate-projectlist-us.aspx?locationID=17]HERE[/url] are CNEWA's current projects in Georgia.

[Apotheoun]

There is no grace in the rituals of the Old Law, and so they are not a means of salvation, nor are they a means of true worship (oορθο δόξα) directed to the Holy Trinity. The only acceptable act of worship was made by Christ the Lord, and it is perpetually remembered in the Church's liturgy.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Maggie' date='09 August 2010 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1281380007' post='2154754']
I think the root of the problem lies in the characterization of Jewish worship as "displeasing." As though God is actively annoyed or angered by their celebration of Passover. The Church says clearly in some very important documents that non-Christian religions, in their attempts to offer true worship to God as they understand Him, have some fragments of light, even if they are merely rays reflected from the fullness of Truth. I think it's more orthodox, and much more Catholic, to say that God is pleased by their desire to please Him, but He would be much better pleased by their conversion and adherence to the full Truth as found in His Church.
[/quote]

Hassan likes this.

[Lilllabettt]

Good grief!

Such awkward legalism!

Next there will be a discussion of different kinds of willful ignorance; how their extent can be demonstrated, measured, etc.

I don't know any non-Catholics who wouldn't run away from the Church screaming from all this.

Really its horrific.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Lilllabettt

[Hassan]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='09 August 2010 - 03:53 PM' timestamp='1281383604' post='2154788']
Good grief!

Such awkward legalism!

Next there will be a discussion of different kinds of willful ignorance; how their extent can be demonstrated, measured, etc.

I don't know any non-Catholics who wouldn't run away from the Church screaming from all this.

Really it horrific.
[/quote]

Hassan likes this.

[cmotherofpirl]

On Jan 9, 1939 Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli ( the future Pope Pius XII) sent a letter to 61 bishops regarding helping the jews "Cardinal Pacelli specifically requested in his letter: "Care should be taken that sanctuaries are provided to safeguard their spiritual welfare and to protect their religious cult, customs and traditions."

On December 31, 1986 Pope John Paul II said" There is one other event which transcends the limits of the year, since it is measured in centuries and millennia in the history of this city and of this Church. I thank Divine Providence that I was able to visit our "elder brothers" in the faith of Abraham in their Roman Synagogue! Blessed be the God of our fathers! The God of peace!



I'd like to think this charity simply doing the same as this uncanonized saints did: "love one another as I have loved you". The jews are our elder brothers in the faith.If the organization checks out they will get some money from me.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='09 August 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1281383604' post='2154788']
Good grief!

Such awkward legalism!

Next there will be a discussion of different kinds of willful ignorance; how their extent can be demonstrated, measured, etc.

I don't know any non-Catholics who wouldn't run away from the Church screaming from all this.

Really its horrific.
[/quote]


[quote name='Hassan' date='09 August 2010 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1281383732' post='2154789']
Hassan likes this.
[/quote]

I do too.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='09 August 2010 - 01:53 PM' timestamp='1281383604' post='2154788']
Good grief!

Such awkward legalism!

Next there will be a discussion of different kinds of willful ignorance; how their extent can be demonstrated, measured, etc.

I don't know any non-Catholics who wouldn't run away from the Church screaming from all this.

Really its horrific.
[/quote]
It has nothing to do with legalism, which is really a problem of the modern Roman Church since it is constantly altering its liturgy through legal enactments, but rather it concerns dogma. Christ is the sole Savior of the world, and He offered the only acceptable oblation when He became incarnate, suffered, died, and rose again from the dead.

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
And so it was that after 24 hrs of peace, the bubonic plague returned to phatmass. The end

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='09 August 2010 - 05:13 PM' timestamp='1281384826' post='2154795']
It has nothing to do with legalism, which is really a problem of the modern Roman Church since it is constantly altering its liturgy through legal enactments, but rather it concerns dogma. Christ is the sole Savior of the world, and He offered the only acceptable oblation when He became incarnate, suffered, died, and rose again from the dead.
[/quote]

The problem is that the original question has been expanded beyond what it originally meant.

I think all of us understand what your above statement is, what the question was if it would be ok to support [u]others[/u] practice their beliefs, out of charity. That in turn comes out of Love which is a the cornerstone of evangelization. Nowhere was it insinuating the consequences of a Catholic performing old Law rituals etc. Unless of course I missed that development of the argument, otherwise I just find it unfounded to argue here since the original question is not that at all, but what I stated in my first sentence.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='09 August 2010 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1281333768' post='2154529']
The religious practices of the Old Law once pleased God, that is no longer so, and such practices are now in vain and do not please God. Only the worship of Mother Church pleases God.
[/quote]


What I said is true, I frankly do not understand why Jåime feels the need to twist and misinterpret my words, and slander my character and my faith in and loyalty to Christ and Mother Church. I am not bigoted, I am not anti-Semitic, I am faithful to the teaching of Christ and His bride.

When Christ came to this earth He modified and gave fulfillment to the old ceremonial laws, the old ceremonies are no longer in force. Thus modern Judaism no longer has efficacy, it is no longer salvific. The Old Law has been abrogated, abolished, and fulfilled by Christ and the New Law.

IE The authority of the Chair of Moses was fulfilled by the Authority of the Chair of Peter. Religious circumcision (which differs from medical circumcision) was fulfilled by Baptism, circumcision in observance to Mosaic ceremony is a mortal sin. The blood sacrifice was replaced with Christ' Crucifixion and the sacrifice of Holy Mass. Etc.

Modern Judaism is not biblical Judaism, Rabbinical Judaism is not the mother religion of Christianity it is rather a jealous and rebellious sister religion which broke off from the One True Church of Christ. Even if it was original Judaism it would still now be a mortal sin for anyone to observe the Mosaic ceremonies. Mortal Sin is not pleasing to God. Our Lord Jesus Christ abolished and fulfilled the Old Law so according to the teachings of Holy Mother Church it is now a sin to still observe them. Invincible ignorance may make one not/less culpable for practicing those ceremonies, but it does not make the practice of abolished Mosaic ceremonies anymore pleasing to God.




[indent]"61: [b]The first consideration is that the ceremonies of the Mosaic Law were abrogated by the coming of Christ and that [u]they can no longer be observed without sin[/u] after the promulgation of the Gospel.
[/b]
63: … nevertheless the Church of Christ has the power of renewing the obligation to observe some of the old precepts for just and serious reasons, despite their abrogation by the new Law. However, precepts whose main function was to foreshadow the coming Messiah should not be restored, for example, circumcision and the sacrifice of animals…" - Ex Quo, 1756, Encyclical, Pope Benedict XIV




"29. And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been [b]abolished[/b]; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area -- He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the house of Israel [30] -the Law and the Gospel were together in force; [31] but on the gibbet of his death [b]Jesus made void the Law with its decrees,[/b] [32] fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, [33] establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race. [34] "To such an extent, then," says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, "was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom." [35]

30. [b]On the Cross then the Old Law died, soon to be buried and to be a bearer of death,[/b] [36] in order to give way to the New Testament of which Christ had chosen the Apostles as qualified ministers; [37] and although He had been constituted the Head of the whole human family in the womb of the Blessed Virgin, it is by the power of the Cross that our Savior exercises fully the office itself of Head in His Church. "For it was through His triumph on the Cross," according to the teaching of the Angelic and Common Doctor, "that He won power and dominion over the gentiles"; [38] by that same victory He increased the immense treasure of graces, which, as He reigns in glory in heaven, He lavishes continually on His mortal members it was by His blood shed on the Cross that God's anger was averted and that all the heavenly gifts, especially the spiritual graces of the New and Eternal Testament, could then flow from the fountains of our Savior for the salvation of men, of the faithful above all; it was on the tree of the Cross, finally, that He entered into possession of His Church, that is, of all the members of His Mystical Body; for they would not have been united to this Mystical Body through the waters of Baptism except by the salutary virtue of the Cross, by which they had been already brought under the complete sway of Christ.

31. But if our Savior, by His death, became, in the full and complete sense of the word, the Head of the Church, it was likewise through His blood that the Church was enriched with the fullest communication of the Holy Spirit, through which, from the time when the Son of man was lifted up and glorified on the Cross by His sufferings, she is divinely illumined. For then, as Augustine notes, [39] with the rending of the veil of the temple it happened that the dew of the Paraclete's gifts, which heretofore had descended only on the fleece, that is on the people of Israel, fell copiously and abundantly (while the fleece remained dry and deserted) on the whole earth, that is on the Catholic Church, which is confined by no boundaries of race or territory. Just as at the first moment of the Incarnation the Son of the Eternal Father adorned with the fullness of the Holy Spirit the human nature which was substantially united to Him, that it might be a fitting instrument of the Divinity in the sanguinary work of the Redemption, so at the hour of His precious death He willed that His Church should be enriched with the abundant gifts of the Paraclete in order that in dispensing the divine fruits of the Redemption she migt be, for the Incarnate Word, a powerful instrument that would never fail. For both the juridical mission of the Church, and the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine and enable her to rule them for the salvation of their souls through divinely enlightened pastors and to bestow on them an abundance of heavenly graces.

32. If we consider closely all these mysteries of the Cross, those words of the Apostle are no longer obscure, in which he teaches the Ephesians that Christ by His blood made the Jews and Gentiles one "breaking down the middle wall of partition . . . in his flesh" by which the two peoples were divided; and that [b]He made the Old Law void "that he might make the two in himself into one new man," that is, the Church, and might reconcile both to God in one Body by the Cross.[/b] [40]" - Mystici Corporis, 1943, Encyclical, Pope Pius XII




[b]"just as it would be a mortal sin now for anyone, in making a profession of faith, to say that Christ is yet to be born, which the fathers of old said devoutly and truthfully; so too it would be a mortal sin now to observe those ceremonies which the fathers of old fulfilled with devotion and fidelity."[/b] - The Angelic Doctor, Summa Theologica 1, 2, quest. 103, art. 4




[b]"Thus the Sinai covenant is indeed superseded[/b]. But once what was provisional in it has [b]been swept away[/b], we see what is truly definitive in it. So the exectation of [b]the New Covenant (...) does not conflict with the Sinai covenant; rather, it fulfills the dynamic expectation found in that very covenant.[/b]" - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Many Religions, One Covenant, pp. 70-71[/indent]

Edited August 9, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Hassan' date='09 August 2010 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1281383314' post='2154784']
Hassan likes this.
[/quote]

I'm so glad If it pleases Hassan, it should be made dogma!

[Bennn]

If I want to exercise charity, then I would rather feed those who are hungry instead of giving them what is needed to do rituals that are no longer effective in the service to God.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='09 August 2010 - 06:00 PM' timestamp='1281387635' post='2154819']
What I said is true, I frankly do not understand why Jåime feels the need to twist and misinterpret my words, and slander my character and my faith in and loyalty to Christ and Mother Church. I am not bigoted, I am not anti-Semitic, I am faithful to the teaching of Christ and His bride.

When Christ came to this earth He modified and gave fulfillment to the old ceremonial laws, the old ceremonies are no longer in force. Thus modern Judaism no longer has efficacy, it is no longer salvific. The Old Law has been abrogated, abolished, and fulfilled by Christ and the New Law.

IE The authority of the Chair of Moses was fulfilled by the Authority of the Chair of Peter. Religious circumcision (which differs from medical circumcision) was fulfilled by Baptism, circumcision in observance to Mosaic ceremony is a mortal sin. The blood sacrifice was replaced with Christ' Crucifixion and the sacrifice of Holy Mass. Etc.

Modern Judaism is not biblical Judaism, Rabbinical Judaism is not the mother religion of Christianity it is rather a jealous and rebellious sister religion which broke off from the One True Church of Christ. Even if it was original Judaism it would still now be a mortal sin for anyone to observe the Mosaic ceremonies. Mortal Sin is not pleasing to God. Our Lord Jesus Christ abolished and fulfilled the Old Law so according to the teachings of Holy Mother Church it is now a sin to still observe them. Invincible ignorance may make one not/less culpable for practicing those ceremonies, but it does not make the practice of abolished Mosaic ceremonies anymore pleasing to God.




[indent]"61: [b]The first consideration is that the ceremonies of the Mosaic Law were abrogated by the coming of Christ and that [u]they can no longer be observed without sin[/u] after the promulgation of the Gospel.
[/b]
63: … nevertheless the Church of Christ has the power of renewing the obligation to observe some of the old precepts for just and serious reasons, despite their abrogation by the new Law. However, precepts whose main function was to foreshadow the coming Messiah should not be restored, for example, circumcision and the sacrifice of animals…" - Ex Quo, 1756, Encyclical, Pope Benedict XIV




"29. And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been [b]abolished[/b]; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area -- He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the house of Israel [30] -the Law and the Gospel were together in force; [31] but on the gibbet of his death [b]Jesus made void the Law with its decrees,[/b] [32] fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, [33] establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race. [34] "To such an extent, then," says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, "was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom." [35]

30. [b]On the Cross then the Old Law died, soon to be buried and to be a bearer of death,[/b] [36] in order to give way to the New Testament of which Christ had chosen the Apostles as qualified ministers; [37] and although He had been constituted the Head of the whole human family in the womb of the Blessed Virgin, it is by the power of the Cross that our Savior exercises fully the office itself of Head in His Church. "For it was through His triumph on the Cross," according to the teaching of the Angelic and Common Doctor, "that He won power and dominion over the gentiles"; [38] by that same victory He increased the immense treasure of graces, which, as He reigns in glory in heaven, He lavishes continually on His mortal members it was by His blood shed on the Cross that God's anger was averted and that all the heavenly gifts, especially the spiritual graces of the New and Eternal Testament, could then flow from the fountains of our Savior for the salvation of men, of the faithful above all; it was on the tree of the Cross, finally, that He entered into possession of His Church, that is, of all the members of His Mystical Body; for they would not have been united to this Mystical Body through the waters of Baptism except by the salutary virtue of the Cross, by which they had been already brought under the complete sway of Christ.

31. But if our Savior, by His death, became, in the full and complete sense of the word, the Head of the Church, it was likewise through His blood that the Church was enriched with the fullest communication of the Holy Spirit, through which, from the time when the Son of man was lifted up and glorified on the Cross by His sufferings, she is divinely illumined. For then, as Augustine notes, [39] with the rending of the veil of the temple it happened that the dew of the Paraclete's gifts, which heretofore had descended only on the fleece, that is on the people of Israel, fell copiously and abundantly (while the fleece remained dry and deserted) on the whole earth, that is on the Catholic Church, which is confined by no boundaries of race or territory. Just as at the first moment of the Incarnation the Son of the Eternal Father adorned with the fullness of the Holy Spirit the human nature which was substantially united to Him, that it might be a fitting instrument of the Divinity in the sanguinary work of the Redemption, so at the hour of His precious death He willed that His Church should be enriched with the abundant gifts of the Paraclete in order that in dispensing the divine fruits of the Redemption she migt be, for the Incarnate Word, a powerful instrument that would never fail. For both the juridical mission of the Church, and the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine and enable her to rule them for the salvation of their souls through divinely enlightened pastors and to bestow on them an abundance of heavenly graces.

32. If we consider closely all these mysteries of the Cross, those words of the Apostle are no longer obscure, in which he teaches the Ephesians that Christ by His blood made the Jews and Gentiles one "breaking down the middle wall of partition . . . in his flesh" by which the two peoples were divided; and that [b]He made the Old Law void "that he might make the two in himself into one new man," that is, the Church, and might reconcile both to God in one Body by the Cross.[/b] [40]" - Mystici Corporis, 1943, Encyclical, Pope Pius XII




[b]"just as it would be a mortal sin now for anyone, in making a profession of faith, to say that Christ is yet to be born, which the fathers of old said devoutly and truthfully; so too it would be a mortal sin now to observe those ceremonies which the fathers of old fulfilled with devotion and fidelity."[/b] - The Angelic Doctor, Summa Theologica 1, 2, quest. 103, art. 4




[b]"Thus the Sinai covenant is indeed superseded[/b]. But once what was provisional in it has [b]been swept away[/b], we see what is truly definitive in it. So the exectation of [b]the New Covenant (...) does not conflict with the Sinai covenant; rather, it fulfills the dynamic expectation found in that very covenant.[/b]" - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Many Religions, One Covenant, pp. 70-71[/indent]
[/quote]
KofC we are not discussing catholics observing the old law, and that is what all your quotes are speaking to, so they are meaningless in this context.