KnightofChrist Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 August 2010 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1281389176' post='2154835'] KofC we are not discussing catholics observing the old law, and that is what all your quotes are speaking to, so they are meaningless in this context. [/quote] No mother they are not meaningless in this context. The Old law was abolished and fulfilled. It no longer has efficacy (it is not effected period), nor is it salvific. It does not please God because He abolished it. It is vain because it is has no efficacy and is not salvific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='09 August 2010 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1281389714' post='2154843'] No mother they are not meaningless in this context. The Old law was abolished and fulfilled. It no longer has efficacy (it is not effected period), nor is it salvific. It does not please God because He abolished it. It is vain because it is has no efficacy and is not salvific. [/quote] In context not one of them has anything to do with Jews practicing their faith or how God feels about those practices. Cmom is correct on this. You have not addressed my quotes at all from the catechism and Nostra Aetate. The Church does not teach that God was once was pleased with the practices of the Jewish faith and now is displeased by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennn Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1281390722' post='2154851'] In context not one of them has anything to do with Jews practicing their faith or how God feels about those practices. Cmom is correct on this. You have not addressed my quotes at all from the catechism and Nostra Aetate. The Church does not teach that God was once was pleased with the practices of the Jewish faith and now is displeased by them. [/quote] Did you read his post? More specifically the quotes from the Magisterium? Edited August 9, 2010 by Bennn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote]Modern Judaism is not biblical Judaism, Rabbinical Judaism is not the mother religion of Christianity it is rather a jealous and rebellious sister religion which broke off from the One True Church of Christ. Even if it was original Judaism it would still now be a mortal sin for anyone to observe the Mosaic ceremonies. Mortal Sin is not pleasing to God. Our Lord Jesus Christ abolished and fulfilled the Old Law so according to the teachings of Holy Mother Church it is now a sin to still observe them. Invincible ignorance may make one not/less culpable for practicing those ceremonies, but it does not make the practice of abolished Mosaic ceremonies anymore pleasing to God.[/quote] It sounds like you're saying that the Jewish faith doesn't exist today. And as far as it being a mortal sin for a Jew to practice his/her faith is completely in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 05:52 PM' timestamp='1281390722' post='2154851'] In context not one of them has anything to do with Jews practicing their faith or how God feels about those practices. Cmom is correct on this. You have not addressed my quotes at all from the catechism and Nostra Aetate. The Church does not teach that God was once was pleased with the practices of the Jewish faith and now is displeased by them. [/quote] She is incorrect the lack of efficacy and non-salvific nature of the practices of the Old Law as taught by the Church has everything to do with this topic. If you wish believe God is pleased by practices He Himself [b]abolished[/b] and which His Bride has [b]forbidden[/b] and if you wish to misinterpret her teachings that is of your own accord. I will not debate a person that does not show me charity. You will only continue to twist my words, and call me vile things. No thanks. God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Bennn' date='09 August 2010 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1281388240' post='2154828'] If I want to exercise charity, then I would rather feed those who are hungry instead of giving them what is needed to do rituals that are no longer effective in the service to God. [/quote] Then that is your perspective/duty/call whatever. It is really up to each person what to do with their charity and if say a Catholic has a personal connection i.e. their cousin or relative, it would only be natural that someone of that experience would give to such an organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tridenteen Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 JMJ Why is it that with every arguement there is always the same instigator, the same debaters, and it is always no matter how much everyone discusses, no one is right? By the way, I was reading about a Council held by the Church which was brought about to discuss whether or not the Churcvh would hoild to the traditions of Judaism...ie holding Kosher and such. Which Council was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennn Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 "61: [b]The first consideration is that the ceremonies of the Mosaic Law were abrogated by the coming of Christ and that [u]they can no longer be observed without sin[/u] after the promulgation of the Gospel.[/b]" I find this quote from the papal encyclical, which KnightofChrist posted, of great importance in this discussion. Is this not clear enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennn Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Tridenteen' date='10 August 2010 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1281391796' post='2154862'] JMJ Why is it that with every arguement there is always the same instigator, the same debaters, and it is always no matter how much everyone discusses, no one is right? By the way, I was reading about a Council held by the Church which was brought about to discuss whether or not the Churcvh would hoild to the traditions of Judaism...ie holding Kosher and such. Which Council was that? [/quote] Do you mean the Council of Jerusalem? The one that is mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tridenteen Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Bennn' date='09 August 2010 - 05:10 PM' timestamp='1281391840' post='2154863'] "61: [b]The first consideration is that the ceremonies of the Mosaic Law were abrogated by the coming of Christ and that [u]they can no longer be observed without sin[/u] after the promulgation of the Gospel.[/b]" I find this quote from the papal encyclical, which KnightofChrist posted, of great importance in this discussion. Is this not clear enough? [/quote] JMJ Exactly. That is why it is sinful for CAtholics to participate in a Seder. The Seder was held by the Jews, whilst waiting for the Mssiah. Therefore, the Traditions reflect the feeling that Jesus Christ has not yet come. Thus, the teaching is heretical, and Catholics in good standing cannot participate in such events. That is the end of it. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='09 August 2010 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1281391272' post='2154855'] It sounds like you're saying that the Jewish faith doesn't exist today. And as far as it being a mortal sin for a Jew to practice his/her faith is completely in error. [/quote] Technically, here is no practicing Jew anymore, Biblical Judaism required the Temple to worship, instead God prophesied and allowed it to be destroyed. Rabbinic Judaism exist today as a false religion, it like all false religions has elements of truth, however the falsehoods in worship certainly do not please God. Individual Jews of today if they have Invincible ignorance are not or are less culpable of sin (depending on the level of their ignorance) for practicing the abolished practices of the Mosaic Law. God is indeed displeased with false worship, or elements of true worship mixed with elements of false worship. Only true worship can be found inside the Church because only the Church has the fullness of Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tridenteen Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Bennn' date='09 August 2010 - 05:12 PM' timestamp='1281391928' post='2154864'] Do you mean the Council of Jerusalem? The one that is mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles? [/quote] JMJ Jah, I think that is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='09 August 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1281391386' post='2154856'] She is incorrect the lack of efficacy and non-salvific nature of the practices of the Old Law as taught by the Church has everything to do with this topic. If you wish believe God is pleased by practices He Himself [b]abolished[/b] and which His Bride has [b]forbidden[/b] and if you wish to misinterpret her teachings that is of your own accord. I will not debate a person that does not show me charity. You will only continue to twist my words, and call me vile things. No thanks. God Bless. [/quote] I have called you nothing. I said that your statement was not in line with Catholic teaching and was antisemitic to state that Jewish practices did not please God. You've document dumped texts that you don't understand in hopes that out of context it will show you're correct. The Church does not forbid Jews to practice their faith. The Catholic Church does not teach that God is displeased when they are doing so. Shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennn Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='10 August 2010 - 12:22 AM' timestamp='1281392533' post='2154872'] I have called you nothing. I said that your statement was not in line with Catholic teaching and was antisemitic to state that Jewish practices did not please God. You've document dumped texts that you don't understand in hopes that out of context it will show you're correct. The Church does not forbid Jews to practice their faith. The Catholic Church does not teach that God is displeased when they are doing so. Shalom [/quote] Objectively speaking, it is a sin not to become Catholic. How can you read the quote from the papal encyclical posted by Knight, which I posted a few posts back and yet hold on to your point of view? "... [b]and that [u]they can no longer be observed without sin[/u] after the promulgation of the Gospel.[/b]" Edited August 9, 2010 by Bennn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Sorry Jåmie, I cannot continue this debate currently, life is calling, it is more important. Also note that because your form of debating unfortunately brings my heart rate up to dangerous levels, (seriously not joking) I'm regrettable forced to ignore your posts for in foreseeable future. This is not meant to be an insult to you personally but for my health. Yet in future I hope and pray you learn to be more charitable in how you respond to others, and not to place words in their mouth and accuse them of being bigots when they are not. God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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