University Student Protests "our Lord" On Diplomas

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='30 March 2010 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1269994015' post='2083740']
And the diploma. You can't forget the diploma.
[/quote]
Does this diploma (this hypothetical diploma) have the date with The Year of Our Lord on it?

See how I got the thread back to the original topic and away from the topics of:

Muslim hairdressers with or without dirty hair wearing hijabs? Or sisters going to medical school... or the history of the entire medical profession for that matter... Or the bust size of the waitresses of various eating establishments?

[God Conquers]

It's immoral to get a boob job!?

Have I been saving up all this money for NOTHING!?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='31 March 2010 - 07:45 AM' timestamp='1270035942' post='2083937']
What I disagree with is people saying that women who wear hijab can't be effective hair stylists.
(No, the veil does not prevent a woman from having a fashionable appearance, excellent salesmanship and good hairstyling skills.)
[/quote]

Lawl. No one said they can't be effective hair stylists. Part of the job is advertising their hair. You can't advertise hair when it's covered.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='31 March 2010 - 07:45 AM' timestamp='1270035942' post='2083937']
When someone suggests to a Muslim woman that she remove her veil, she may very well be insulted, because in her mind the implication may be that there is nothing sacred and holy in her that is worthy of special protection.
[/quote]

If she doesn't like it, she shouldn't apply for the job.

Edited March 31, 2010 by HisChildForever

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='31 March 2010 - 07:45 AM' timestamp='1270035942' post='2083937']
The origins of the veil are in a certain part of the Quran. Can't think of where right now. But Mohammad has just gotten married to a new wife. Its their wedding night, and two guests from the wedding are very rudely keeping the couple up talking. Finally Mohammad lets fall a curtain between him and his wife and the outside of the inner tent, as he did so a verse of the Qu'ran was revealed, and he spoke it etc etc etc.

What follows from this is the significance of the veil as a shield; it is to protect something which is private, sacred and holy (the relationship between husband and wife) from base, rude, outside intrusion. Women who wear the hijab believe that they are following God's instruction to protect what is sacred and holy (themselves; their dignity, their modesty) from rude outsiders.
[/quote]

The new wife was his cousin, Zaynab Bint Jahsh.

Since you have said before that there are various interpretations of the Qur'an, I will assume that this is one interpretation of many.

[Cherie]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='30 March 2010 - 06:52 PM' timestamp='1269989574' post='2083704']

The field of medicine existed long before Christ founded the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

True, but Catholic religious sure gave the field a lot of *AWESOME* advancements throughout history.

Take Gregor Mendel, the father of modern genetics, who was a monk, a priest, and even later promoted to abbot. Totally awesome!

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='31 March 2010 - 06:54 AM' timestamp='1270043694' post='2084004']
It's immoral to get a boob job!?

Have I been saving up all this money for NOTHING!?
[/quote]

Lol, plus one.

however, as canadians we should sometimes tone down the humour, so as not to make everyone else look bad. wouldnt want to wear out our welcome

[Cherie]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='31 March 2010 - 11:16 AM' timestamp='1270048591' post='2084031']
If she doesn't like it, she shouldn't apply for the job.
[/quote]

I don't know, this sort of reminds me of a problem I had as a religious, wearing a veil. The people who were taking drivers' license photos told us we had to remove our veils (they also said this to Muslim women.) Does that mean we shouldn't apply for a drivers' license? No, I believe it was our right to wear a veil. It's something sacred to us, we didn't go in public places without wearing one.

I get what you're saying, that in general, people associate their hairstylist's hair (even though they themselves didn't cut it) with whether or not they will do a good job. But I think a woman wearing a hijab who looks stylish (as in those pictures) and well-groomed would give the same impression to someone, whether or not their hair is showing. If they wanted to, they could have pictures of some hair cuts they've done on their station to show people samples of their work. Honestly, I think every hair stylist should do this (hijab or not) because they're not the ones who cut or color their own hair. I remember a woman with great hair and color giving me the worst cut and color job I've ever received. Another woman who I was apprehensive about (since her hair style was 70s-esque) gave me the most beautiful haircut I've ever had. Sure, a woman has to style her own hair, but if you're given a good cut and color it's actually rather simple to do. I'd enjoy seeing the work of a hairstylist. That's something you don't ever get to see ... until it's TOO LATE!

But I don't think it's right to force Muslim women to remove their hijab or they won't get the job. As a religious Sister, they tried to force us to take off our veils, and it was wrong. I guess I'm just sensitive about this issue since it hits close to home.

Edited March 31, 2010 by CherieMadame

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='31 March 2010 - 11:32 AM' timestamp='1270049555' post='2084041']
The new wife was his cousin, Zaynab Bint Jahsh.

Since you have said before that there are various interpretations of the Qur'an, I will assume that this is one interpretation of many.
[/quote]

Yes, the Qur'an doesn't explicitly say to wear the hijab, women are told to cover their "adornments"

[Socrates]

Whether you like it or not, the government has no right to demand that private employers change their employee dress codes, or personal grooming standards.
For most service or sales type jobs, employers want the employees to project a certain image, whether "fair" or not.
The government does not have the right to force them to change simply because someone feels discriminated against.
Where do we draw the line? Should those who like to wear jeans and t-shirts sue if their employer makes them wear a suit and tie? What if a committed nudist demands that his employer allow him to work in the buff?
If dress codes are seen as too restrictive or unreasonable for a lot of people, they can usually find another place with more relaxed standards.

While you can argue about whether the hair-stylist place is justified in banning veils or whatever, I believe that matter to be outside the proper boundaries of government.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Socrates' date='31 March 2010 - 10:43 AM' timestamp='1270057386' post='2084129']
Whether you like it or not, the government has no right to demand that private employers change their employee dress codes, or personal grooming standards.
For most service or sales type jobs, employers want the employees to project a certain image, whether "fair" or not.
The government does not have the right to force them to change simply because someone feels discriminated against.
Where do we draw the line? Should those who like to wear jeans and t-shirts sue if their employer makes them wear a suit and tie? What if a committed nudist demands that his employer allow him to work in the buff?
If dress codes are seen as too restrictive or unreasonable for a lot of people, they can usually find another place with more relaxed standards.

While you can argue about whether the hair-stylist place is justified in banning veils or whatever, I believe that matter to be outside the proper boundaries of government.
[/quote]


Agreed


Bust is completely different as it is not a matter of dress code, it is a matter of body type.

And yes... breast and bust are different. When you have implants it isn't the breast (the actual physical tissue of a woman's body) that grows in size... it is the volume of the bust. Two different things... bust relates to volume or size, breast relates to human body tissue. At least that's my reasoning.


As for the diploma... the people are bonkers.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Slappo' date='31 March 2010 - 02:15 PM' timestamp='1270059351' post='2084148']
Bust is completely different as it is not a matter of dress code, it is a matter of body type.

And yes... breast and bust are different. When you have implants it isn't the breast (the actual physical tissue of a woman's body) that grows in size... it is the volume of the bust. Two different things... bust relates to volume or size, breast relates to human body tissue. At least that's my reasoning
[/quote]
If a woman doesn't want to be objectified, or judged on her body parts, she probably shouldn't be seeking employment at Hooters or similar establishments.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[color="#000000"]I believe it is cool when people wear the habit, the yarmulke, the turban, the hijab, and the like, and to deny people their legitimate religious traditions is creepy. This is not being PC as some might fear, but just basic respect for others and the golden rule imo.

I don't believe that the government should punish employers for being strict about a dress code (far too much government for my taste already), but I do believe it is best when an employer takes into consideration different religions and cultures and makes exceptions. In Starfleet Worf was allowed to wear the baldric with his Klingon family crest. Ro Laren was allowed by Picard to wear the Bajoran earring even though such jewelery was explicitly prohibited by the Starfleet uniform code. There are of course many more examples.

Why does the "government" have to be included so often in these types of discussions? I think this is a matter of common decency and respect for others not "law" or some c[color="#000000"]rap[/color].

Maybe it becomes a law type of thing because discrimination based on religion is condemned by the government and some may see hijab prohibition as a form of religious discrimination?

I try to imagine being a Catholic woman living in a culture where the typical dress code of an employer required showing serious cleavage, or perhaps even bare breasts. I would hope that most people would have the decency to allow an exception in this case, because of the religious beliefs and cultural sensibilities, even if they personally did not understand.


[/color]

[IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/StarTrekSpaceHippies1.jpg[/IMG]

I'm inclined to boycott a business which forbids hijabs, turbans and other such things, or that requires people to compromise their values in any way (being made to sell birth control comes to mind). To just say, 'well they can go work somewhere else,' suggests a lack of empathy in my opinion. Many people spend months trying to find a job to support their family and cannot be so picky. Employers ought to treat employees with respect and be able to make exceptions for religious things.

[CatherineM]

They are fighting the head coverings really hard right now in Quebec. I don't so much care about head covering in an ID, but when it covers the face it kind of defeats the purpose of the photo. The Hutterites here in Alberta just lost a court case about not wanting to have a photo of any kind on their driver's licenses.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Socrates' date='31 March 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1270057386' post='2084129']
Whether you like it or not, the government has no right to demand that private employers change their employee dress codes, or personal grooming standards.
For most service or sales type jobs, employers want the employees to project a certain image, whether "fair" or not.
The government does not have the right to force them to change simply because someone feels discriminated against.
Where do we draw the line? Should those who like to wear jeans and t-shirts sue if their employer makes them wear a suit and tie? What if a committed nudist demands that his employer allow him to work in the buff?
If dress codes are seen as too restrictive or unreasonable for a lot of people, they can usually find another place with more relaxed standards.

While you can argue about whether the hair-stylist place is justified in banning veils or whatever, I believe that matter to be outside the proper boundaries of government.
[/quote]
I agree, and if an employee really dislikes the dress / behavior code of the employer he can quit.