Japan In Wwii

[Nihil Obstat]

Please read carefully, then vote. Discuss below; you know the drill.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Nihil Obstat

[Nihil Obstat]

Sorry for a kind of confusing poll. I was trying to be very precise.

[Vincent Vega]

I don't know enough to vote, but I'm presently watching "The Fog of War", which is a documentary on the life of McNamara. He speaks of the firebombings of the major Japanese cities by LeMay, and discusses the morality (from his point of view, of course) of it. It's very, very interesting, and I would recommend it.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='01 April 2010 - 12:43 AM' timestamp='1270100614' post='2084661']
I don't know enough to vote, but I'm presently watching "The Fog of War", which is a documentary on the life of McNamara. He speaks of the firebombings of the major Japanese cities by LeMay, and discusses the morality (from his point of view, of course) of it. It's very, very interesting, and I would recommend it.
[/quote]
I think that's the one my dad was just talking about, which is what gave me the idea to make this thread.

Personally, I don't think I really need much background at all to be able to answer, besides the basic facts.

[dominicansoul]

hiroshima, nagasaki---civilian populations were destroyed...not military targets...the fact that they happen to be heavily populated by Catholics makes me wonder if the masons were behind choosing these cities to bomb...

the incendiary bombings---again, targeted munitions manufacturing districts heavily populated by civilians, families with children, non-military residents...although these were involved in the making of weapons, the fact that they were just pawns used by the Japanese government should have been considered before wiping them off the face of the earth in such a tragic way

the brutal treatment against POWs at the hands of the japenese soldiers, although atrocious acts, were not reasons for the allies to sink to their disgusting level...

[Vincent Vega]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Firebombing_leaflet.jpg

I feel like the circumstances aren't that cut and dry, I guess. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='01 April 2010 - 12:48 AM' timestamp='1270100887' post='2084672']
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Firebombing_leaflet.jpg

I feel like the circumstances aren't that cut and dry, I guess. Maybe I'm wrong.
[/quote]
Hm..... I really don't think that changes it. I mean, would it be moral for North Korea to do a fly-by of South Korea, dropping notes that said "if you're here in a week, you'll all die", and then nuking them a week later? Sure, they gave them fair warning. Doesn't make it moral by any means. I strongly object to the appalling amounts of civilians who were killed in Japan, mainly by Americans.

[dominicansoul]

one of the best war movies ever made:

"Grave of the Fireflies"

[img]http://www.chrlc.vic.gov.au/cb_pages/images/Grave%20fireflies%20dvd.jpg[/img]


Shows the indifference Japan had for their own people, as well as the hardships endured by the civilian population during the war...

[Nihil Obstat]

In any case, the fact that the Allies..... supposedly the good guys in this whole thing, would do something like this, on such an enormous scale....... well, it really makes you think. It makes me very unhappy.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='01 April 2010 - 02:50 AM' timestamp='1270101015' post='2084674']
Hm..... I really don't think that changes it. I mean, would it be moral for North Korea to do a fly-by of South Korea, dropping notes that said "if you're here in a week, you'll all die", and then nuking them a week later? Sure, they gave them fair warning. Doesn't make it moral by any means. I strongly object to the appalling amounts of civilians who were killed in Japan, mainly by Americans.
[/quote]
If I tell you that next Sunday I am going to kill you, would you be standing around waiting for me?

[vee]

Just a couple of things right now before I go offline for some deeper Easter reflection time.

In his book [url="http://www.amazon.com/Bells-Nagasaki-Japans-Modern-Writers/dp/4770018452/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1"]The Bells of Nagasaki[/url] Dr Takashi Nagai, a Catholic who was in Nagasaki, in a concrete university building at the time the bomb fell says something I thought was very interesting. I can look up the exact quote later but from what I remember he says that he believes God allowed that bomb to detonate over Nagasaki the most Catholic city in Japan, over the cathedral dedicated to Our Lady, during Mass, as a sacrifice of reparation.

That example is one of several interesting coincidences involving Our Lady and Japan that are like an ongoing puzzle for me, and Im not the only one to notice these things either. Take this for example Francis Xavier reached Japan on 27 July, 1549, but it was not until [b]15 August[/b] that he went ashore at Kagoshima,

When did Japan surrender WWII? [b]August 15[/b]. What else is on August 15? The feast of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Our Lady of Akita`s final message to Sr Sasagawa was on October 13 the same date as the miracle at Fatima.

More later...

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='01 April 2010 - 10:40 AM' timestamp='1270132844' post='2084771']
If I tell you that next Sunday I am going to kill you, would you be standing around waiting for me?
[/quote]
most of those killed were peasants. i dont' think they had anywhere to run to...besides, they were forced to work in the munitions/weapons factories...

if obama started a war and forced us to work as his pawns in the politics of war, and we were stuck in a hell hole, without any thing but the raggedy shirts off our backs...I'm sure we would meet the same fate...regardless of warnings...

[CatherineM]

My votes are heavily dependent on two people. My dad, and my mom's best friend. My dad was preparing to be sent to the Pacific when the bombs fell. He'd already been through so much in the war, I'm not sure he could have survived much more. I probably wouldn't be here. The second person is my mom's best friend. She's Japanese. Was a Korean war bride. As a school child during the war, she was trained on how to roll underneath advancing tanks to kill herself and take out the tank at the same time. She was at the time disappointed that she didn't get the chance because of the abrupt end to the war.

Anyone who thinks civilians didn't die in the war should read up on Okinawa. Fathers killed their families to keep them from being taken captive. Officers murdered wounded men. It was a hint at what would have come had the invasion of the home islands been necessary.

One last thing. The U.S. government minted enough Purple Hearts for the anticipated invasion of Japan. They believed that so many in fact would be necessary that they didn't have to mint another one until about two years ago. That means all the people who received Purple Hearts in Korea, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, Panama, Grenada, Lebanon, Desert Storm, Somalia, Bosnia, 9-11, Afghanistan and most of Iraq wars received a medal that was originally intended for a soldier who didn't have to be injured or die in Japan. Towards the end, the medals were still in mint condition, but after 60 years, the ribbons had disintegrated and had to be replaced.

We study history to learn from our mistakes, to find a better way, but we should never judge the morality of those who have gone before us if we haven't lived in their time and shoes.

[Era Might]

I do not consider the dropping of the atomic bombs a matter of legitimate discussion. To even debate it would be to legitimize it. It is an abominable and indefensible act.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Era Might

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='01 April 2010 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1270132844' post='2084771']
If I tell you that next Sunday I am going to kill you, would you be standing around waiting for me?
[/quote]
If you told me you were going to come to my house and kill me, yea, I think I would. Even if I did get out of town, it still wouldn't be any more moral for you to burn my house down.