Evangelization, Practically Speaking

[Presbylicious]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='04 April 2010 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1270443413' post='2086815']
On Friday night one of my Protestant friends introduced me to her friend that's also Protestant. In one hour he talked so much and had so little substance to his words, I was amazed. He knew I was Catholic yet he made comments like "Catholics do NOT have a Christian nature," or "Catholic priests should be married, because that's why they molest boys!"

He knew so little, yet she was enamored by him. I don't know how!
[/quote] As a Protestant I would be inclined to smack this guy upside the head with a foam-covered bible (all non-violently of course, as I am a pacifist).

In the Canadian experience, some of the worst sexual abuses carried out in the name of Christ have been carried out by members of Protestant churches (though the Roman Church is implicated as well) against the aboriginal people of this country in the so-called 'residential schools'.

Protestants are [i]not [/i]innocent of sexual abuse. The whole Church has her seamless robe stained with this sin. It's enough to make you weep.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Socrates' date='06 April 2010 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1270521554' post='2087391']
Or perhaps you should consider that God might be using [i]you[/i] to instruct them. God rarely appears to people in a burning bush and infuses with direct knowledge of the truth, but usually relies on human instruments, which should include you and me.

You shouldn't be a jerk or insulting, and there's a time to shake the dust from your feet if they don't respond, but there's certainly nothing wrong with defending the faith and correcting error when it is promoted. And last I checked, [b]preaching[/b] holy apostolic truth In fact, I'd say it's part of our duty as Catholics. But it seems too often we're now afraid to speak out about the faith, lest we be labeled "holier than thou" or "preachy."
[/quote]


It is particularly hard with very liberal Catholics. They think they are still Catholics, but they are living lives and holding beliefs that are just not in alignment with what the Church teaches. And if I ignore what they are telling me then I feel as if I am supporting or encouraging what they are doing/believing. But when I try to show them where they might be going wrong (as kindly as possible), I sometimes get a very violent reaction. One person went ballistic on me and wrote back to tell me she had blocked all my emails and that she was even thinking of writing to my spiritual director to tell him that I was judging her (which is kind of funny in a way because he is a trad Latin Mass priest) but it was sad that she reacted so badly because it ended all dialogue.

Once I tried to get my Catholic sister-in-law to see that receiving Communion when she goes to Mass on the rare occasion is not really right when she never goes for most of the year or goes to Confession, and she got furious as well and told me that she had been a Catholic since before I was born and who was I to tell her how to live her faith, etc.... so I never brought it up again, but I did wonder if I should have just kept my mouth shut or not. It wasn't my business, but I went to Mass with her on a couple of occasions and it just felt so wrong that she would receive in a state of mortal sin. What does one do? Just keep quiet? I have, ever since then, but it is very hard for me to see Catholics who don't realize how beautiful and special the Church is, and who aren't faithful to her themselves. Sigh.

Where is the line, can someone tell me? I don't want to look at the speck in my brother's eye while I have a log in mine. Should I just set an example and not ever speak up? Sometimes I think that it is my duty for the sake of their immortal soul, but then I wonder if I am just being a busybody and it is between them and God. I am curious about this and hope this doesn't hijack the thread.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='nunsense' date='05 April 2010 - 10:12 PM' timestamp='1270523523' post='2087420']
It is particularly hard with very liberal Catholics. They think they are still Catholics, but they are living lives and holding beliefs that are just not in alignment with what the Church teaches. And if I ignore what they are telling me then I feel as if I am supporting or encouraging what they are doing/believing. But when I try to show them where they might be going wrong (as kindly as possible), I sometimes get a very violent reaction. One person went ballistic on me and wrote back to tell me she had blocked all my emails and that she was even thinking of writing to my spiritual director to tell him that I was judging her (which is kind of funny in a way because he is a trad Latin Mass priest) but it was sad that she reacted so badly because it ended all dialogue.

Once I tried to get my Catholic sister-in-law to see that receiving Communion when she goes to Mass on the rare occasion is not really right when she never goes for most of the year or goes to Confession, and she got furious as well and told me that she had been a Catholic since before I was born and who was I to tell her how to live her faith, etc.... so I never brought it up again, but I did wonder if I should have just kept my mouth shut or not. It wasn't my business, but I went to Mass with her on a couple of occasions and it just felt so wrong that she would receive in a state of mortal sin. What does one do? Just keep quiet? I have, ever since then, but it is very hard for me to see Catholics who don't realize how beautiful and special the Church is, and who aren't faithful to her themselves. Sigh.

Where is the line, can someone tell me? I don't want to look at the speck in my brother's eye while I have a log in mine. Should I just set an example and not ever speak up? Sometimes I think that it is my duty for the sake of their immortal soul, but then I wonder if I am just being a busybody and it is between them and God. I am curious about this and hope this doesn't hijack the thread.
[/quote]

That's part of what the thread is about

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='nunsense' date='05 April 2010 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1270523523' post='2087420']
It is particularly hard with very liberal Catholics. They think they are still Catholics, but they are living lives and holding beliefs that are just not in alignment with what the Church teaches. And if I ignore what they are telling me then I feel as if I am supporting or encouraging what they are doing/believing. But when I try to show them where they might be going wrong (as kindly as possible), I sometimes get a very violent reaction. One person went ballistic on me and wrote back to tell me she had blocked all my emails and that she was even thinking of writing to my spiritual director to tell him that I was judging her (which is kind of funny in a way because he is a trad Latin Mass priest) but it was sad that she reacted so badly because it ended all dialogue.

Once I tried to get my Catholic sister-in-law to see that receiving Communion when she goes to Mass on the rare occasion is not really right when she never goes for most of the year or goes to Confession, and she got furious as well and told me that she had been a Catholic since before I was born and who was I to tell her how to live her faith, etc.... so I never brought it up again, but I did wonder if I should have just kept my mouth shut or not. It wasn't my business, but I went to Mass with her on a couple of occasions and it just felt so wrong that she would receive in a state of mortal sin. What does one do? Just keep quiet? I have, ever since then, but it is very hard for me to see Catholics who don't realize how beautiful and special the Church is, and who aren't faithful to her themselves. Sigh.

Where is the line, can someone tell me? I don't want to look at the speck in my brother's eye while I have a log in mine. Should I just set an example and not ever speak up? Sometimes I think that it is my duty for the sake of their immortal soul, but then I wonder if I am just being a busybody and it is between them and God. I am curious about this and hope this doesn't hijack the thread.
[/quote]
It's interesting how some of these "liberal" Catholics react so violently against certain judgement. One would think a true Christian would be open to some criticism and be willing to consider another person's "judgement" and see if that really reflects on one's life (not close up and hide!). I guess (because of the protestantism -- this is not a bash, but a fact) the issue of "private faith" has penetrated society, so if someone "feels" they are good in God's eyes, that cannot be questioned, and the person will feel comfortable living his or her life as he or she has been.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='05 April 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1270502583' post='2087224']
Tell him the mushy things you say about Sacred Music Man like you do with us and how awesome of a boyfriend he is to you. And if he still won't back down...

then Jeff and him can get ready to rumble!
[/quote]


actually, Jeff and I are no longer dating. we were just trying to keep it private. But we'd both appreciate prayers

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='missionseeker' date='06 April 2010 - 02:03 AM' timestamp='1270533810' post='2087545']
actually, Jeff and I are no longer dating. we were just trying to keep it private. But we'd both appreciate prayers
[/quote]


Sorry, Cat. Hugs and prayers.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='missionseeker' date='06 April 2010 - 02:03 AM' timestamp='1270533810' post='2087545']
actually, Jeff and I are no longer dating. we were just trying to keep it private. But we'd both appreciate prayers
[/quote]
Affirmative. Thanks, all.

[MissyP89]

Thread kill. Love you guys, both of you.

[Socrates]

[quote name='nunsense' date='05 April 2010 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1270523523' post='2087420']
It is particularly hard with very liberal Catholics. They think they are still Catholics, but they are living lives and holding beliefs that are just not in alignment with what the Church teaches. And if I ignore what they are telling me then I feel as if I am supporting or encouraging what they are doing/believing. But when I try to show them where they might be going wrong (as kindly as possible), I sometimes get a very violent reaction. One person went ballistic on me and wrote back to tell me she had blocked all my emails and that she was even thinking of writing to my spiritual director to tell him that I was judging her (which is kind of funny in a way because he is a trad Latin Mass priest) but it was sad that she reacted so badly because it ended all dialogue.

Once I tried to get my Catholic sister-in-law to see that receiving Communion when she goes to Mass on the rare occasion is not really right when she never goes for most of the year or goes to Confession, and she got furious as well and told me that she had been a Catholic since before I was born and who was I to tell her how to live her faith, etc.... so I never brought it up again, but I did wonder if I should have just kept my mouth shut or not. It wasn't my business, but I went to Mass with her on a couple of occasions and it just felt so wrong that she would receive in a state of mortal sin. What does one do? Just keep quiet? I have, ever since then, but it is very hard for me to see Catholics who don't realize how beautiful and special the Church is, and who aren't faithful to her themselves. Sigh.

Where is the line, can someone tell me? I don't want to look at the speck in my brother's eye while I have a log in mine. Should I just set an example and not ever speak up? Sometimes I think that it is my duty for the sake of their immortal soul, but then I wonder if I am just being a busybody and it is between them and God. I am curious about this and hope this doesn't hijack the thread.
[/quote]
Sounds like you're doing the right thing. If you're being kind and charitable in preaching the truth, and they're reacting with violent emotion, I think that shows who is in the right here.

Remember, a lot of people didn't like hearing what Jesus Christ Himself had to say, and reacted violently, even so violently as to put Him to death on the cross!

The fact that they had a violent emotional reaction to your words shows that you at least jolted them out of their smug spiritual complacency. You never know, perhaps you have planted a seed which will sprout sometime later when their hearts are softened. Or perhaps not, but you have done your part in speaking the truth, and the rest will be between them and God. Just because the seed falls on stony or thorny ground doesn't mean the seed should have never been sown.

It sounds like you said things that needed to be said--that it was your Christian duty to say--but you shouldn't continue to nag or berate them over it - they're aware where you stand, and that's what matters.

It seems a lot of Catholics have this bizarre idea that preaching Christian truth shouldn't upset anyone, but that's not what Christ said.
[quote] Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's enemies shall be they of his own household.[/quote] Matt. 10:34-36

[missionseeker]

One of my friends here said I should ask him what's the real reason he's going to Mass. Because, well, he's not being very subtle, so neither should I about the fact that 1) he really shouldn't use me as his motivation for Mass and 2) that.. there's no point in him doing it for that reason.

I'll probbaly take this road because otherwise, I am probably leading him on.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='missionseeker' date='06 April 2010 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1270574237' post='2087716']
One of my friends here said I should ask him what's the real reason he's going to Mass. Because, well, he's not being very subtle, so neither should I about the fact that 1) he really shouldn't use me as his motivation for Mass and 2) that.. there's no point in him doing it for that reason.

I'll probbaly take this road because otherwise, I am probably leading him on.[/quote]

In the end, it is much kinder to him to tell him the truth gently about how you feel as soon as possible, so he won't feel later as if you were lying to him about your intentions, or were "using him" just to get him to come to Mass. If the end result of your conversation means that he ends up not coming to Mass anymore, don't feel guilty. It won't be surprising if he is disappointed or mad at you--and possibly God--for awhile. God is experienced at how to best handle people who are mad at him. At minimum, you have planted a seed that God will use later in his own way and time.

Also, make sure that he clearly knows that the reason you don't feel "that way" has nothing to do with the fact that he is not Catholic. They are separate issues in this case.

We'll pray that the right words to say come to you when you say them. (I've found that as much as I practice what I'm going to say, it often falls apart or doesn't turn out to be the best thing to say in that situation.)

Good luck!

[missionseeker]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='06 April 2010 - 02:09 PM' timestamp='1270580952' post='2087791']
In the end, it is much kinder to him to tell him the truth gently about how you feel as soon as possible, so he won't feel later as if you were lying to him about your intentions, or were "using him" just to get him to come to Mass. If the end result of your conversation means that he ends up not coming to Mass anymore, don't feel guilty. It won't be surprising if he is disappointed or mad at you--and possibly God--for awhile. God is experienced at how to best handle people who are mad at him. At minimum, you have planted a seed that God will use later in his own way and time.

Also, make sure that he clearly knows that the reason you don't feel "that way" has nothing to do with the fact that he is not Catholic. They are separate issues in this case.

We'll pray that the right words to say come to you when you say them. (I've found that as much as I practice what I'm going to say, it often falls apart or doesn't turn out to be the best thing to say in that situation.)

Good luck!
[/quote]


Thanks