Wikileaks Video Of Civilians Killed In Baghdad

[StMichael]

I don't know what to make of this video.

I stayed with it for a little bit and it appeared as though our military fired upon them believing these men had some serious weapons.

It is 2007 and I can't say with certainty if Iraq was so bad, that our military went with a shoot now and ask questions later mentality.

From a military standpoint, not sure what the protocol is, but from a moral standing to see humans gunned down is sickening and I pray for all souls involved.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='MissyP89' date='05 April 2010 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1270504709' post='2087248']
The unedited video shouldn't be aired. Publicizing it shows a lack of sensitivity and dehumanization of the people involved. There are ways around the violence and it can be reported carefully, but to release the uncut video is ethically questionable.
[/quote]

I would find showing an edited only copy of the video to be more ethically suspect. the full video, lets their actions speak for themselves better than a possibly biased edit could do.
the entire video was obtained using the Freedom of Information act.

[Apotheoun]

Civilian deaths during war are always tragic.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='05 April 2010 - 04:03 PM' timestamp='1270508590' post='2087291']
Civilian deaths during war are always tragic.
[/quote]

concise, and true.

[Brother Adam]

War is hell.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='05 April 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1270497823' post='2087169']
...until CNN or ABC...or CBS...or NBC get in on it...I think the media will be guilty of the "cover up" as well as the military...

Obama's the chief now...can't make him look bad...of course, all they need to do is re-iterate how this was done under Bush's leadership....

so far on Yahoo, I haven't seen anything about it...only like a hundred more articles on how Pope Benny needs to be drawn n quartered in Great Britain..
[/quote]


[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='05 April 2010 - 01:08 PM' timestamp='1270498107' post='2087174']
I'm sure we will not hear that much more about this story. It will be quickly forgotten just like other negative news about the wars that would look bad for President Obama.
[/quote]

mhm, well some News organizations have picked up on it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/NVih0.jpg[/img]
the comparison is not looking good for American news stations, biases aside, one of the above contains "News" and the other does not.



EDIT: here is the Vancouver Sun article on the whole thing, includes an accurate description of the video, and a transcription of the radio chatter/crewmen speaking.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Leaked+video+shows+military+forces+shooting+Reuters+journalists+civilians/2765874/story.html

im glad some places are picking up the story, especially if it means one less headline about Tiger Woods/celebrity.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Jesus_lol

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='05 April 2010 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1270509309' post='2087297']
mhm, well some News organizations have picked up on it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/NVih0.jpg[/img]
the comparison is not looking good for American news stations, biases aside, one of the above contains "News" and the other does not.
[/quote]

+1 if I had it.

[ardillacid]

What do the following statements have in common?

[quote]Jlol posting a thread that even remotely portrays America in a semi-decent light.[/quote]

[quote]Minnesota Vikings winning a superbowl.[/quote]

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='05 April 2010 - 07:15 PM' timestamp='1270509309' post='2087297']
mhm, well some News organizations have picked up on it.
the comparison is not looking good for American news stations, biases aside, one of the above contains "News" and the other does not.


EDIT: here is the Vancouver Sun article on the whole thing, includes an accurate description of the video, and a transcription of the radio chatter/crewmen speaking.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Leaked+video+shows+military+forces+shooting+Reuters+journalists+civilians/2765874/story.html

im glad some places are picking up the story, especially if it means one less headline about Tiger Woods/celebrity.
[/quote]
I have always found CNN to be a bit jingoistic.

You forgot one news agency. Your favorite and my favorite news source, Fox News.

[img]http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1231/foxwikileaks.jpg[/img]

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='05 April 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1270524341' post='2087436']
What do the following statements have in common?

[/quote]

ive made plenty of posts about america in good ways. No threads, but ill wager more americans on PM make anti american government, military, etc than i do.
course you guys arent very interested in stuff like the Canadian Afghanistan torture scandal, prorogueing, etc, so thats why i post about the american stuff that catches my eye.

And i did make a pretty kickass thread about Seattle !!!

[quote name='kamiller42' date='05 April 2010 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1270524579' post='2087440']
I have always found CNN to be a bit jingoistic.

You forgot one news agency. Your favorite and my favorite news source, Fox News.

[img]http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1231/foxwikileaks.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Jingoistic? pretty lame recently (twitter posts are NOT news) but i dunno bout Jingoistic.

lol, hardly my favorite, though Fox NEWS, isnt that bad at news. its the "colour commentary" that really annoys me. glad to see some journalistic integrity

Edited April 6, 2010 by Jesus_lol

[mortify]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='05 April 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1270490402' post='2087041']
except that it wasnt actually weapons. those were camera equipment. have you gotten to the parts where they are hoping to kill the one wounded guy, and then they light up a van full of unarmed civilians and children picking up the wounded guy?[/quote]

I watched the longer version of the video and those do appear to be weapons. In fact the RPG was *confirmed* by a ground soldier at around 19 minutes and 30 seconds into the video.

So if some of the victims were reporters what were they doing hanging around guys with RPGs? Perhaps they were simply reporting and were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
[quote]
and that the US military did everything in its power to keep this info secret, even from the company whos employees they killed. coverups are never good.[/quote]

I imagine the US Military keeps all such information secret, not because wrong is being comitted but simply for the sake of secrecy. Those people were killed without even knowing what hit them. I was particularly surprised to see the man walking near the building that was blown up, not even hear the missile that was being shot. So much can be learned from such a video, and now its out in public.

[mortify]

This is from the wikileaks website:

[i][color="#0000FF"]"WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including [color="#FF0000"]two[/color] Reuters news staff. Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded. For further information please visit the special project website www.collateralmurder.com. "[/color][/i]

Of those twenty or so people *two* were reporters. I think if you watch the video you can make out two people who appear to be carrying duffel bags, perhaps containing camera equipment. But you can also make out people who are carrying objects that appear to be weapons, and as mentioned earlier a ground soldier did confirm there was a killed man with an RPG, so weapons were present. So two reporters were killed, but was everyone a civilian? Note the careful wording of the text, "over a dozen [i]people[/i]" were killed.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='mortify' date='06 April 2010 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1270576663' post='2087749']
Of those twenty or so people *two* were reporters. I think if you watch the video you can make out two people who appear to be carrying duffel bags, perhaps containing camera equipment. But you can also make out people who are carrying objects that appear to be weapons, and as mentioned earlier a ground soldier did confirm there was a killed man with an RPG, so weapons were present. So two reporters were killed, but was everyone a civilian? Note the careful wording of the text, "over a dozen [i]people[/i]" were killed.
[/quote]
Here's the conclusion of Fox News' article on it:

[quote]Asked to comment on the video, a senior military official at the Department of Defense told Fox News on the condition of anonymity that "an investigation of the incidents confirmed our belief that these attacks were justified."

"[b]The individuals who were killed, apart from the Reuters journalists, were involved in hostile activity[/b]," this official said.

The official also said all the material seen on this video has been addressed publicly by the Department of Defense. "With regard to the death of the journalists and the apparent misidentification -- all of this has been acknowledged in the past," the official said.

The "Rules of Engagement" have not been changed following the incident. [/quote]

[mortify]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='06 April 2010 - 02:11 PM' timestamp='1270577470' post='2087756']
Here's the conclusion of Fox News' article on it:
[/quote]

I knew it.

These groups that supposedly stand up for freedom are ultimately tied with promoting their own spin.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='mortify' date='06 April 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1270577920' post='2087760']
I knew it.

These groups that supposedly stand up for freedom are ultimately tied with promoting their own spin.
[/quote]
Yes, and their willing accomplices who thrive on scandal and despise images like below.

[img]http://www.technochitlins.com/mt-archives/iiraqsoldierwithkids.jpg[/img]

[img]http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/soldier_iraq_2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.agmates.com/images/6a.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.agmates.com/images/7a2.jpg[/img]

U.S. Military, such cold hearts.

[mortify]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='06 April 2010 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1270578400' post='2087766']
Yes, and their willing accomplices who thrive on scandal and despise images like below.
[/quote]

I don't think such people thrive on scandal, as if to scandalize is the ultimate aim, it's merely the means to an end.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='mortify' date='06 April 2010 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1270578549' post='2087768']
I don't think such people thrive on scandal, as if to scandalize is the ultimate aim, it's merely the means to an end.
[/quote]
Agreed. I mean to say they thrive on scandal as it is their means to an end.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='05 April 2010 - 11:25 PM' timestamp='1270524341' post='2087436']
What do the following statements have in common?






[/quote]

Often come close; always choke?

[Winchester]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='05 April 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1270489341' post='2087026']



i found the soldiers talking to be very disturbing "oh yeah right through the windshield", "come on(to wounded guy below, trained sights on) all you gotta do is pick up a weapon...", "look at those dead bastards", you can practically hear the guys saying "aww yah high score! "
even if they were insurgents that shouldnt be how they are thinking.
[/quote]
You'd probably really be mad if you heard what firefighters say about victims, then--we're in far better conditions than these guys. I've heard and said some pretty dreadful things. I've seen guys injured, had friends killed trying to make a push in what's pretty much a hopeless situation to save people. Those same guys making what you view as callous comments have put themselves time and again between innocents and danger.

Like it or not, it's a way of dealing with things and the very people who talk like that make your life possible.

[Winchester]

And another thing:

The news team willingly entered a war zone. They assumed the risk.