Sodomy vs. The True Nature of Marriage

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='15 April 2010 - 04:41 PM' timestamp='1271364098' post='2094205']
Why does it have to be from the last thirty years?
[/quote]
I'll take a guess. CMo will correct me if I am wrong or add to what I think is the reason.

The last 30 years is the bulk of the time for the release and examination of the modern understanding of sexuality known as the theology of the body. It does not disregard ancient texts, but gives a modern interpretation. It builds on them.

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='15 April 2010 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1271365663' post='2094225']
Actually, I know little about West and have been discussing the immorality of anal penetration.
[/quote]
And thus, arguing against how some interpret West's stand on the issue. You haven't read West, but probably have seen KoC quote him on this matter.

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='15 April 2010 - 05:08 PM' timestamp='1271365732' post='2094227']
Personal attack =/= attitude
[/quote]
The attitude becomes a weapon when it causes one to make statements and claim them as "fact" when they are really unsubstantiated claims.

The facts as the public knows it is that West is taking a break to tend to family matters and retool his teaching methods. Would it be wrong for me to spin "tend to family matters" into a lie such as "West is being suspended because he cheated on his wife?" Is it a personal attack? Yes. My example spins the family matters reason. It is equally wrong to spin the retooling reason. Attacks are not limited to being direct ("West is a doo-doo face.").

Hassan asks an interesting question. What is your answer?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='15 April 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1271364098' post='2094205']
Why does it have to be from the last thirty years?
[/quote]
No such restriction should be applied.

[Brother Adam]

[quote]Seems everyone's essentially in agreement. This is much ado about nothing. [/quote]

Yes, at the very most he is originally guilty of not being sure if one can objectively condemn the action, but he never accepts it as fully moral. Essentially stating "I'm not 100% sure we can say it is evil by its very nature, but here is a long list of reasons not to" is not the mark of a heretic.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Socrates' date='15 April 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1271366143' post='2094232']
Seems everyone's essentially in agreement. This is much ado about nothing.
[/quote]
I agree. Anal sex is immoral whether it is performed by two men or by a man and a woman.

[Apotheoun]

Wow. I got a negative point for saying that anal sex is immoral. Phatmass is in real trouble.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='15 April 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1271375832' post='2094341']
Wow. I got a negative point for saying that anal sex is immoral. Phatmass is in real trouble.
[/quote]

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/b3wfpc.jpg[/IMG]

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='15 April 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1271375832' post='2094341']
Wow. I got a negative point for saying that anal sex is immoral. Phatmass is in real trouble.
[/quote]

Not that anyone asked, but your negative point wasn't from me.

However, I'd be interested to hear how you and others handle your views on this with regard to gay family members, friends, co-workers, etc. It can be very difficult sometimes.

With my gay ex-husband, I've handled it by keeping in minimal contact with him. I know how to get hold of my ex if I were ever to need to, and I basically know what/how he's doing, but I ask no questions about his personal life and he doesn't volunteer any information. It's really tough sometimes because I still care about him, and I don't wish bad things for him.

I have no idea whatsoever how my ex has reconciled being gay with being Catholic--or if he has reconciled it at all. I've never asked.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='15 April 2010 - 08:57 PM' timestamp='1271375832' post='2094341']
Wow. I got a negative point for saying that anal sex is immoral. Phatmass is in real trouble.
[/quote]

I don't think you deserve a positive point for a one ling zinger either.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='15 April 2010 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1271377491' post='2094364']
I don't think you deserve a positive point for a one ling zinger either.
[/quote]
True. Though points have been given for statements like "Oh croutons" in the past. But a negative point for stating the traditional teaching of the Church on anal sex is hardly worth a negative point.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='15 April 2010 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1271376852' post='2094353']
Not that anyone asked, but your negative point wasn't from me.

However, I'd be interested to hear how you and others handle your views on this with regard to gay family members, friends, co-workers, etc. It can be very difficult sometimes.

With my gay ex-husband, I've handled it by keeping in minimal contact with him. I know how to get hold of my ex if I were ever to need to, and I basically know what/how he's doing, but I ask no questions about his personal life and he doesn't volunteer any information. It's really tough sometimes because I still care about him, and I don't wish bad things for him.[/quote]
My position would be the same, and I would pray for the individual's release from that spiritually confused state of mind.

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='15 April 2010 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1271376852' post='2094353']
I have no idea whatsoever how my ex has reconciled being gay with being Catholic--or if he has reconciled it at all. I've never asked.[/quote]
Alas, many people think that homosexual activity is compatible with being Catholic. They are of course wrong, but it is a common enough belief.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='15 April 2010 - 09:32 PM' timestamp='1271377933' post='2094368']
True. Though points have been given for statements like "Oh croutons" in the past. But a negative point for stating the traditional teaching of the Church on anal sex is hardly worth a negative point.
[/quote]

The nature of a youth board I suppose

[Brother Adam]

This discussion and the fixation on things we ought not fixate on made me think of this quote, and helped me transcend the level of discussion.

"The hidden life of love is in the most inwards depths, unfathomable, and still has an unfathomable relationship with the whole of existence. As the quiet lake is fed deep down by the flow of hidden springs, which no eye sees, so a human being's love is grounded, still more deeply, in God's love."


A taco for whoever can tell me who said that.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Seven77' date='15 April 2010 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='' post='']
Your attitude indicates otherwise. This thread itself was originally an attack on West's character and integrity. Honestly ask yourself if it was--- If not well and good. We are Christians here.
[/quote]

the purpose of this thread was as I've repeated again and again was to debate teaching errors of West. I am a Christian Seven, I have honestly asked myself a question. And I have an honest answer. I will not continue this debate I will not bring up the other points I wanted to bring up. Why? Because i have a heart problem and you and others will continue to personally attack my character, while accusing me of doing the same to West. Again I am a Christian but I strongly oppose the errors of West.

[rizz_loves_jesus]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='15 April 2010 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1271379227' post='2094380']
This discussion and the fixation on things we ought not fixate on made me think of this quote, and helped me transcend the level of discussion.

"The hidden life of love is in the most inwards depths, unfathomable, and still has an unfathomable relationship with the whole of existence. As the quiet lake is fed deep down by the flow of hidden springs, which no eye sees, so a human being's love is grounded, still more deeply, in God's love."


A taco for whoever can tell me who said that.
[/quote]

C.S. Lewis?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' date='15 April 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1271382712' post='2094397']
C.S. Lewis?
[/quote]

I think I remember something like this from Kierkegaard. Of course with my slightly add mind I can't remember where or when I read this and can't track it down.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='15 April 2010 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1271383119' post='2094399']
I think I remember something like this from Kierkegaard.
[/quote]

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/2morpeb.jpg[/IMG]

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='15 April 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1271367183' post='2094245']
Hassan asks an interesting question. What is your answer?
[/quote]

Are you directing this at me? I don't know the question you're talking about.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='15 April 2010 - 10:23 PM' timestamp='1271384620' post='2094406']
Are you directing this at me? I don't know the question you're talking about.
[/quote]
Yes. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=104486&view=findpost&p=2094190"]The one you said "GROSS" to[/url].

[HisChildForever]

Since I think oral sex is degrading, I really have no answer to that.

[God Conquers]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='15 April 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1271382389' post='2094393']
the purpose of this thread was as I've repeated again and again was to debate teaching errors of West. I am a Christian Seven, I have honestly asked myself a question. And I have an honest answer. I will not continue this debate I will not bring up the other points I wanted to bring up. Why? Because i have a heart problem and you and others will continue to personally attack my character, while accusing me of doing the same to West. Again I am a Christian but I strongly oppose the errors of West.
[/quote]

Who has attacked your character? I don't think anyone has claimed you've attacked Mr. West's character either.

Here are the facts as they stand with regard to this thread:

You claim there are "teaching errors of West".

You have shown that several years ago West made an error in teaching about sodomy.

It has been shown that he has remedied this error.

You continue to assert other faults, without any proof. Even in your last post you say there is more, but refuse to prove it.


If there was a question of character, I'd say it was spreading rumor of error without proof. It affects Mr. West's credibility, and the opinion of people in the public place where you've made the assertions.


I'm not trying to attack you here, just showing why people might be interested in you giving whatever information it is you have.