Birth Control And Poverty

[N/A Gone]

[quote]How Ironic that the single largest cause of poverty in the western hemisphere the last 60 years is the Catholic Church's (still standing) condemnation of the use of contraception, even inside marriage, resulting in a population explosion in latin america. (Gotta keep filling the pews with new catholics). Poverty primarily comes from people having kids who cannot afford to raise them, or more kids than they can afford. Expecting people to just keep it in their pants goes against basic human nature. If people want to plan their families (and have sex with their wife all month, not just when she's not fertile), they have the right to do so. If the Catholic Church were serious about eradicating poverty and reducing the number of abortions, they would not only reverse this failed policy, they would start helping people obtain birth control (contraception, not condoms, I agree they are a joke) who want to use it but can't afford it or have no access.

Abortion is an ugly thing. Would reversing Roe vs. Wade do any good? No, people would still do it in secret and the govt would be scared to death of prosecuting anyone. People would still get knocked up. The taxpayer should not pay for it in any way shape or form. Better sex education and widespread use of oral contraception (or the shot) would go a long, long ways to reducing the number of abortions. The Pill can be very beneficial healthwise to the woman taking it, stabilizing the cycle and limiting symptoms of PMS.[/quote]

How would you recommend answering this?

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='05 May 2010 - 11:46 AM' timestamp='1273085199' post='2105459']
How would you recommend answering this?
[/quote]
horsehocky. that's what i would say.

[CatherineM]

When my brothers and I were at home, we were poor, but not as poor as my mother is now at almost 88 years old. If my brother weren't taking care of her, she would be in a nursing home. I hate to think of what kind of nursing home with her limited income. I remember seeing lots of those kinds of nursing homes in Florida. Not having any children myself, I am worried about ending up in a place like that. Those most affected by poverty are children living with single moms, and elderly women. The solution to that is to support families staying together, and having enough children to care for senior citizens.

[Cherie]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='05 May 2010 - 02:46 PM' timestamp='1273085199' post='2105459']
How would you recommend answering this?
[/quote]

There are so many angles to go at in order to respond to that, it's hard to say. Honestly, there are so many things you could say, it's hard to know where to start. (Like when you have a completely messy room and you have no idea where to start when you go about cleaning it up!)

One aspect I'd like to point out is the fact that the Church believes that sex is created for marriage. Couples who marry are more likely to have a stable environment, and therefore are more able to afford any children they might have. So, while the Church indeed teaches that contraception is wrong, it also teaches that sex outside of marriage is wrong. Part of the problem in poverty is the high birthrate among unwed mothers. In this country, 4 out of 10 births are now to unmarried women, and in some places in our country, the number of unwed mothers outnumbers those of wed mothers. Regarding Latin Americans, it has nothing to do with "filling the pews with Catholics" at all ... can that person find a single reputable source that says the Catholic Church encourages Latin Americans to have children in order to fill the pews? Hispanic women have the highest unmarried birthrate in the country -- sooooooo...they're living the Church's teaching about contraception, but not marriage? Something's not right there! I'd tell him/her: Sorry honey, but that problem has nothing to do with the Church's teaching.

Also, the Church isn't against "family planning" per se. If a family cannot afford a child, that is considered a "grave" or "serious" reason for a couple to use Natural Family Planning. NFP has been proven in 2007 by Europe's leading medical journal to be AS EFFECTIVE as the pill in avoiding pregnancy. But it's not going against God's will for human sexuality, and it's not filling your body with unwanted chemicals. Remember, EVERY medication has side effects. You think the meds "know" where the problem is and ONLY affect that problem? That's not how medicine works. The human body is a whole - when you take any sort of medication, it affects your WHOLE body. That's why there are side effects.

(And HA HA HA on the Pill being "beneficial" health-wise -- those so-called "benefits" are merely masking a deeper medical problem in the woman.)

For more good info on NFP and why contraception is NOT the answer, refer him/her to Janet Smith: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0002.html -- She is the most amazing woman I know who speaks on this subject, and I admire her work greatly.

[laetitia crucis]

[url="http://www.bishopsheen.excerptsofinri.com/audio/Life_is_Worth_Living/Birth-Control.mp3"]Fulton Sheen speaking about Birth Control[/url] (mp3) from his "Life is Worth Living" series.

[Ephrem Augustine]

Why did they write this? Because are you a teacher at a Catholic School?
I mean, if you are, then whats the problem, he should know what the Church teaches? Why does he have to take it up with you? It seems kind of odd?
I mean if he really has a problem, then you can tell him to speak to his daughter, and let her choose between the truths of the faith, or his own convenient proud opinion? idk?

[CatherineM]

Just saw an advertisement for a particular birth control pill on tv, and the first 1/4 of the ad was talking about how great the pill was, and the last 3/4 consisted of a list of possible side affects and reasons why you shouldn't take it. Ads like that are because their lawyers have made them. When company lawyers do that, it is because bad things have happened, probably lots of bad things involving lots of money.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' date='05 May 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1273104089' post='2105609']
Why did they write this? Because are you a teacher at a Catholic School?
I mean, if you are, then whats the problem, he should know what the Church teaches? Why does he have to take it up with you? It seems kind of odd?
I mean if he really has a problem, then you can tell him to speak to his daughter, and let her choose between the truths of the faith, or his own convenient proud opinion? idk?
[/quote]

I am a teacher, but the school is more of a college prep liberal Catholic school than a seminary. We were discussing feeding children in africa and this came up.

btw, Catholic Augustinian? You have my attention.

[Lil Red]

rev, look up and share these videos from Population Research Institute.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXrN9HhnCcM[/media]

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='06 May 2010 - 12:36 PM' timestamp='1273163773' post='2105873']
rev, look up and share these videos from Population Research Institute.
[/quote]
You'd get your butt handed to you trying to use that inane video on someone who actually knew their stuff imo. I appreciate what these people are trying to do, but I think that this video is an embarrassment.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='06 May 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1273169878' post='2105924']
You'd get your butt handed to you trying to use that inane video on someone who actually knew their stuff imo. I appreciate what these people are trying to do, but I think that this video is an embarrassment.
[/quote]
expound?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='06 May 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1273170121' post='2105928']
expound?[/quote]
I have a hard time taking that stick figure cartoon seriously enough to write a thoughtful and complete response, but I will at least point out a couple of things that bothered me.

- The video starts out with a mind-boggling straw man presentation. Nobody denies that industrial agriculture produces an abundance of food. An exponent of overpopulation might rather claim that because of issues such as the erosion of soil, the water crisis, climate change, peak oil, etc., petroleum-based industrial agriculture is not sustainable in the long run and that in the future (some say by 2050) the production of food will be inadequate to support the global population (at least without epic ecological consequences and the like).
- The video lists "key causes of hunger" and claims that overpopulation is not on the list. I don't know if this is stupidity or just intentional obfuscation, but the number one reason on their list was "poverty," and it is elementary knowledge that overpopulation is seen as integrally related to poverty. Some would say that overpopulation is the fundamental driving force behind poverty. I'm not saying that I believe any of this, just pointing out that the video is not even interested in being fair, it is really quite insipid. There is hardly a statement in the video that does not rub me the wrong way for similar reasons.
- The video says "[b]blaming overpopulation for everything[/b], only distracts us from the real problems...", well duh, who actually blames overpopulation on [i]everything[/i]? I'd bet that most overpopulation advocates also believe that things like war, corrupt resource allocation, etc. are big problems. I think one would be hard-pressed to find someone whose only agenda is overpopulation. It tends to be packaged along with other issues.

I hate to say it, but I believe that the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation"]wikipedia article on overpopulation[/url] is more balanced, and certainly better referenced. I appreciate what these people are trying to do, but I don't appreciate these videos. I think it would be better to engage in real debate, fair criticisms based on facts and critical thinking, and respect for truth above agenda. Maybe I just have a problem with the stickman youtube cartoon medium which seems to be gaining popularity of late.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='06 May 2010 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1273172517' post='2105943']
I hate to say it, but I believe that the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation"]wikipedia article on overpopulation[/url] is more balanced, and certainly better referenced. I appreciate what these people are trying to do, but I don't appreciate these videos. I think it would be better to engage in real debate, fair criticisms based on facts and critical thinking, and respect for truth above agenda. Maybe I just have a problem with the stickman youtube cartoon medium which seems to be gaining popularity of late.
[/quote]
+JMJ+
well, i know their website is certainly more referenced.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='06 May 2010 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1273172895' post='2105948']
+JMJ+
well, i know their website is certainly more referenced.
[/quote]
Werd. I was only talking about the video, at face value, I have no intention of dissing their organization or efforts as a whole. I'm sure they've got good stuff. Maybe this is just their attempt to jump on the cheap youtube propaganda bandwagon.

[Ephrem Augustine]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='05 May 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1273107571' post='2105644']
I am a teacher, but the school is more of a college prep liberal Catholic school than a seminary. We were discussing feeding children in africa and this came up.

btw, Catholic Augustinian? You have my attention.
[/quote]

Feeding children in Africa? I guess those children were a mistake, and probably should have been aborted, and their births curbed by adequate birth control, and less children would have to live in and amongst this suffering. Wouldn't that be nice?
What next? Can we just wipe out populations in areas of high poverty simply because the high population contributes more the to the poverty? That would certainly reduce starvation? Where does it stop?
Of course, we all know that they are nothing but animals, and the only way that we can control their animal instincts is to throw some condoms, some pills, and some abortions in there, because they do not have the power to make responsible decisions themselves.

Reductio ad Absurdo

I put Catholic Augustinian, because my spirituality and train of thought are, I hope, Augustinian.