It's 1920's Under The United State During Alcohol Prohibition.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='06 May 2010 - 12:21 AM' timestamp='1273119684' post='2105725']
haha I know what a flapper is... I was just confused by the tone of your post. Internetz are dumb. I couldn't figure out if you really agreed with me or if you were being completely sarcastic.
[/quote]

nah, i agreed, and then i voted...didn't see that as an option the first time around....

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='06 May 2010 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1273119854' post='2105726']
nah, i agreed, and then i voted...didn't see that as an option the first time around....
[/quote]



Man... Phatmass Pub makes me want to have a drink with all y'all in real life...(well that, and the chatroom)

[SaintOfVirtue]

"I won't turn you in, but I won't lie for you either" would be my answer. I believe the author of this thread is trying to make a correlation between the Alcohol Prohibition and the drug war. I say the two are entirely different issues, and therefore are incomparable. The drug war is succeeding where the prohibition failed.

P.S. I know the alcohol prohibition was an utter failure. However, while the law was in effect I would have abided by it, but I would have voted against it at the ballot.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='06 May 2010 - 12:52 AM' timestamp='1273121572' post='2105730']
"I won't turn you in, but I won't lie for you either" would be my answer.[b] I believe the author of this thread is trying to make a correlation between the Alcohol Prohibition and the drug war[/b]. I say the two are entirely different issues, and therefore are incomparable. The drug war is succeeding where the prohibition failed.
[/quote]

Hm you may be right... they are completely different questions imo and correlations don't work. I'm not a hypocrite for saying I wouldn't abide by the Prohibition but I do abide by drug laws... most of the drugs which are illegal are immoral to use recreationally. Alcohol is not. I don't believe the government has the right to regulate the use of something relatively harmless like alcohol. I don't know whether drug laws are effective, or whether the government has the right to regulate them. It doesn't matter too much to me because I think their immoral anyway.

Edited May 6, 2010 by aalpha1989

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='06 May 2010 - 12:04 AM' timestamp='1273122252' post='2105733']
Hm you may be right... they are completely different questions imo and correlations don't work. I'm not a hypocrite for saying I wouldn't abide by the Prohibition but I do abide by drug laws... most of the drugs which are illegal are immoral to use recreationally. Alcohol is not. I don't believe the government has the right to regulate the use of something relatively harmless like alcohol. I don't know whether drug laws are effective, or whether the government has the right to regulate them. It doesn't matter to much to me because I think their immoral anyway.
[/quote]
I'm curious as to your thinking on this. Which drugs do you consider immoral if used recreationally? All of the ones that are currently illegal? Is it just a question of their effects on the body?

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 May 2010 - 01:07 AM' timestamp='1273122436' post='2105735']
I'm curious as to your thinking on this. Which drugs do you consider immoral if used recreationally? All of the ones that are currently illegal? Is it just a question of their effects on the body?
[/quote]

It's a question of effects on the body and on the soul... i.e. how much do they affect your use of your faculties? Marijuana seems relatively mild, but it definitely inhibits the intellect/will in a significant way. Until recently I was undecided, but I think marijuana is immoral to use because of this effect. I do believe it is less dangerous physically than cigarettes.
Blah, I'm so bad at explaining.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "moderate use" of marijuana because of the significant effect it has on the intellect and on the will. Every time. There [i]is[/i] such a thing as "moderate use" of cigarettes because the physical dangers are only present if one smokes massive amounts, and nicotine does not significantly inhibit the intellect or the will.

I would obviously consider anything more hardcore than marijuana immoral because those drugs affect the intellect and the will even more. Spiritual dangers (and the intellect and the will are spiritual faculties) are more deadly than physical dangers. Drugs have the effect of seperating the body from the soul in favor of the body. That is, one is immersed in physical pleasures and the more important soul is forgotten and neglected.

Edited May 6, 2010 by aalpha1989

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='06 May 2010 - 12:14 AM' timestamp='1273122867' post='2105738']
It's a question of effects on the body and on the soul... i.e. how much do they affect your use of your faculties? Marijuana seems relatively mild, but it definitely inhibits the intellect/will in a significant way. Until recently I was undecided, but I think marijuana is immoral to use because of this effect. I do believe it is less dangerous physically than cigarettes.
Blah, I'm so bad at explaining.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "moderate use" of marijuana because of the significant effect it has on the intellect and on the will. Every time. There [i]is[/i] such a thing as "moderate use" of cigarettes because the physical dangers are only present if one smokes massive amounts, and nicotine does not significantly inhibit the intellect or the will.

I would obviously consider anything more hardcore than marijuana immoral because those drugs affect the intellect and the will even more. Spiritual dangers (and the intellect and the will are spiritual faculties) are more deadly than physical dangers. Drugs have the effect of seperating the body from the soul in favor of the body. That is, one is immersed in physical pleasures and the more important soul is forgotten and neglected.
[/quote]
I've always found the comparisons between alcohol and marijuana to be fairly compelling. Obviously they affect the body in different ways, but from an outsider's perspective, it looks like they affect a person to about the same degree. How do you respond to that?

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 May 2010 - 01:16 AM' timestamp='1273122988' post='2105739']
I've always found the comparisons between alcohol and marijuana to be fairly compelling. Obviously they affect the body in different ways, but from an outsider's perspective, it looks like they affect a person to about the same degree. How do you respond to that?
[/quote]

Alcohol can be enjoyed in such a way that spiritual faculties are not affected significantly, if at all. Marijuana can not.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='06 May 2010 - 12:17 AM' timestamp='1273123076' post='2105741']
Alcohol can be enjoyed in such a way that spiritual faculties are not affected significantly, if at all. Marijuana can not.
[/quote]
I've never tried it, so I can't say you're wrong...... but still, I'm hesitant. Are you saying that smoking a single joint significantly impairs a person's spiritual faculties?

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='05 May 2010 - 09:52 PM' timestamp='1273121572' post='2105730']
"I won't turn you in, but I won't lie for you either" would be my answer. I believe the author of this thread is trying to make a correlation between the Alcohol Prohibition and the drug war. I say the two are entirely different issues, and therefore are incomparable. The drug war is succeeding where the prohibition failed.

P.S. I know the alcohol prohibition was an utter failure. However, while the law was in effect I would have abided by it, but I would have voted against it at the ballot.
[/quote]

the drug war is only really succeeding in the same way the prohibition did. they stop a small amount of trafficking, arrest a couple people, the vast majority goes untouched and indeed thrives on the increased profits in dealing with illegal substances. and since they are already outside of the law, and profits are so large, it becomes "worth it" to kill, and often, to protect your profits, and when deals go sour.

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='05 May 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1273123076' post='2105741']
Alcohol can be enjoyed in such a way that spiritual faculties are not affected significantly, if at all. Marijuana can not.
[/quote]

this is entirely untrue. in the same way that you can have a drink or two without any significant changes in body, you can also socially smoke pot. one puff does not equal being stoned. if anyone tells you this, they are lying.

the effects of even smoking a full joint by yourself are, i think, less total in your body than drinking a fair amount of alchohol. it changes your perception and thoughts, like alchohol, but doesnt really affect balance, reaction times(to the same degree).

i know this from personal experience, not from listening to pro drug guys or reading websites. nothing against you, i just know you have no first hand experience.

[kamiller42]

I didn't like any of the answers, so I'll answer here. If it's the law of the land and he's doing all three, I would turn him in. Would I want a crime syndicate for a neighbor? No. Look what it would attract. I might get shot in some deal gone bad scenario.

If he wants to produce and distribute, then change the law. Convince the public the cost to society of legalizing the behavior is less than the cost of enforcing its prohibition.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='05 May 2010 - 10:40 PM' timestamp='1273124405' post='2105748']
I've never tried it, so I can't say you're wrong...... but still, I'm hesitant. Are you saying that smoking a single joint significantly impairs a person's spiritual faculties?
[/quote]

i would say smoking a single joint to be vaguely comparable to a couple of beers. the scale doesnt really line up, because you could probably smoke pot all day(theis has been done by friends) not not be all that badly off. just not too functional, but not sick, or dying of overdose or alchohol poisoning. and not starting fights or deciding to drive at 3 times the speed limit and kill people.

back to the small effect. a single joint can be smoked (or "puffed" on) many many times before it is used up. often a joint will be shared between several people.round here normally like 10 or so(it would still go around the group a few times), when everyone is hanging out at the ropeswing. no really gets high in the same way. one gets high off it, or really changes in a noticeable way. its just kind of a social thing at that point.

more differences are noticable when everyone drinks a beer each.

obviously more smoking leads to being more high, but its not quite the same.

a joint between like 2 or 4 friends, would be everyone fairly buzzed. but still very very functional.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='06 May 2010 - 01:59 AM' timestamp='1273125596' post='2105754']
i would say smoking a single joint to be vaguely comparable to a couple of beers. the scale doesnt really line up, because you could probably smoke pot all day(theis has been done by friends) not not be all that badly off. just not too functional, but not sick, or dying of overdose or alchohol poisoning. and not starting fights or deciding to drive at 3 times the speed limit and kill people.

back to the small effect. a single joint can be smoked (or "puffed" on) many many times before it is used up. often a joint will be shared between several people.round here normally like 10 or so(it would still go around the group a few times), when everyone is hanging out at the ropeswing. no really gets high in the same way. one gets high off it, or really changes in a noticeable way. its just kind of a social thing at that point.

more differences are noticable when everyone drinks a beer each.

obviously more smoking leads to being more high, but its not quite the same.

a joint between like 2 or 4 friends, would be everyone fairly buzzed. but still very very functional.
[/quote]

...what about when your friends roll marijuana into the world's biggest joint....bigger than any large cigar, and when you are puffing it, it explodes and seeds go everywhere???

[kamiller42]

Before posting on this thread and supposed harmless affair of smoking marijuana, I wish watching 2 Dragnet episodes would be required: The Big High & The Big Prophet. So many repeated arguments. You can watch them on Netflix streaming.

Edited May 6, 2010 by kamiller42

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='06 May 2010 - 02:23 AM' timestamp='1273126984' post='2105759']
Before posting on this thread and supposed harmless affair of smoking marijuana, I wish watching 2 Dragnet episodes would be required: The Big High & The Big Prophet. So many repeated arguments. You can watch them on Netflix streaming.
[/quote]


i really enjoy "Dragnet"

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='05 May 2010 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1273126968' post='2105758']
...what about when your friends roll marijuana into the world's biggest joint....bigger than any large cigar, and when you are puffing it, it explodes and seeds go everywhere???
[/quote]

why do i feel like this is referring to a cheech and chong movie i havent seen?

[quote name='kamiller42' date='05 May 2010 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1273126984' post='2105759']
Before posting on this thread and supposed harmless affair of smoking marijuana, I wish watching 2 Dragnet episodes would be required: The Big High & The Big Prophet. So many repeated arguments. You can watch them on Netflix streaming.
[/quote]

Dragnet? the 50s TV show? seriously? why dont i just watch some back episodes of Matlock with you old timer?



yeah you probably think Reefer Madness is based in fact as well right?

oh man im sorry, Matlock was made like 30 years after Dragnet, i know how you dont like all that newfangled stuff.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Jesus_lol

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 May 2010 - 01:40 AM' timestamp='1273124405' post='2105748']
I've never tried it, so I can't say you're wrong...... but still, I'm hesitant. Are you saying that smoking a single joint significantly impairs a person's spiritual faculties?
[/quote]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.


[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='06 May 2010 - 01:51 AM' timestamp='1273125089' post='2105751']
this is entirely untrue. in the same way that you can have a drink or two without any significant changes in body, you can also socially smoke pot. one puff does not equal being stoned. if anyone tells you this, they are lying.

the effects of even smoking a full joint by yourself are, i think, less total in your body than drinking a fair amount of alchohol. it changes your perception and thoughts, like alchohol, but doesnt really affect balance, reaction times(to the same degree).

i know this from personal experience, not from listening to pro drug guys or reading websites. nothing against you, i just know you have no first hand experience.
[/quote]

I haven't smoked myself but I have seen the effects in people close to me. Smoking marijuana, as I said, significantly inhibits the spiritual faculties. Drinking in excess does too. Both are sinful.

[goldenchild17]

Before using our own reasoning alone for calling something sinful (which is no small accusation) it would be helpful if people from each side would give some sort of source that agrees with them. I haven't done an in depth study on this, but I know that one Catholic moral theologian (Heribert Jone) from the 1950's equated the use of narcotics with the use of alcohol and said basically that just like alcohol isn't always sinful the same is true of narcotics.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='06 May 2010 - 12:52 AM' timestamp='1273121572' post='2105730']
The drug war is succeeding where the prohibition failed.


[/quote]


[quote name='aalpha1989' date='06 May 2010 - 01:17 AM' timestamp='1273123076' post='2105741']
Alcohol can be enjoyed in such a way that spiritual faculties are not affected significantly, if at all. Marijuana can not.
[/quote]
You are incorrect. Just like alcohol, marijuana at low levels doesn't have much effect on the mental faculties. It is possible to use marijuana in moderation.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='06 May 2010 - 02:35 AM' timestamp='1273127759' post='2105762']
Dragnet? the 50s TV show? seriously? why dont i just watch some back episodes of Matlock with you old timer?



yeah you probably think Reefer Madness is based in fact as well right?

oh man im sorry, Matlock was made like 30 years after Dragnet, i know how you dont like all that newfangled stuff.
[/quote]
I am not that old, but I learned to appreciate quality movies and TV shows which appeared before my time.

Dragnet was a show which reenacted actual, i.e. real, cases. So yes, it is based on fact.

If you watch the show, you will see many arguments and situations today existed 40+ years ago. People who believe they are enlightened by providing a new angle on an issue, like drugs, are really singing an old failed song.

Plus, Joe Friday played by Jack Webb, is awesome! This is a hilarious routine he did with Johnny Carson.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4RIBhQIkII[/media]