Draw Mohammad Day

[T-Bone _]

It's "Draw Mohammad Day" apparently.

[T-Bone _]

Is this a good thing, or is it just needlessly aggravating an already tense situation?

[Jesus_lol]

[img]http://www.toonpool.com/user/3311/files/muhammad_ali_579725.jpg[/img]

[The Dusk Man]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='20 May 2010 - 02:25 AM' timestamp='1274340354' post='2114068']
[img]http://www.toonpool.com/user/3311/files/muhammad_ali_579725.jpg[/img]
[/quote]


Needs more jihad.

[MIKolbe]

I don't draw swords that well, so I'm out....

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='The Dusk Man' date='20 May 2010 - 05:14 AM' timestamp='1274350482' post='2114075']
Needs more jihad.
[/quote]

Derka derka.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='T-Bone _' date='20 May 2010 - 04:18 AM' timestamp='1274339891' post='2114067']
Is this a good thing, or is it just needlessly aggravating an already tense situation?
[/quote]

I would be inclined to simply respect their beliefs about depictions of Mohammad as I would want them to respect our beliefs about the Eucharist. Obviously they won't, but that doesn't mean I can't take the high road. I see no reason to make drawings other than to mock Muslims and their beliefs.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='20 May 2010 - 08:05 AM' timestamp='1274357129' post='2114096']
I would be inclined to simply respect their beliefs about depictions of Mohammad as I would want them to respect our beliefs about the Eucharist. Obviously they won't, but that doesn't mean I can't take the high road. I see no reason to make drawings other than to mock Muslims and their beliefs.
[/quote]


I don't know why you assume they wouldn't reciprocate. I went to DC with a group of Muslims, Christians, and non-religious on an 'inter-faith trip' (I use scare quotes because most of it was us having fun in DC while performing one token group activity a day. It's for some program. A friend got me in and I got to have fun in DC for a weekend at a pretty cheap price). Anyway, we went to the Basilica in DC. The evangelical Christian didn't like it much (he's since become a friend, but on the trip it became clear that he didn't hold Catholicism in terribly high esteem, something that was a source of friction between us believe it or not). They were fairly astounded at the size and architecture and generally loved it. Unfortunately, as we were leaving they had to do the days final prayers and it wasn't clear where they could do them. We were on the big area outside of the Church but after you go up the stairs and nobody was around. They could have done them there and probably nobody would have seen but one objected that if she saw a nun paying the rosary outside a mosque like she was consecrating it, she would object to that, and even if they were just doing prayers there because of circumstances, if any Catholics walked by it may look to them like they were dedicating the Basilica to Islam through prayer or something. The rest agreed and we walked around until we got to the student center thing at Catholic University of America where they have DEUS EST MEA LUX (I first thought it was saying something about not eating meat until I realized it was latin) or whatever and they did the prayers there.

Obviously a great many Muslims don't show similar respect for other faiths. The current situation of the Cptic Christians in Egypt is a good example. But I think that on the whole, all other variables being held constant and equal. Most people do try to at least show some respect for the faiths of others. That generally has been my experience. The ones who don't usually get the most attention. The pit preacher who comes to my school and screams about the "MOZLEMS!" and "HINDOS" walking around the Chapel Hill campus (IT'S [i]CHAPEL[/i] HILL, BUT NOW THEY LETTIN MOZLEMS AND HINDOS WALK AROUND AN LET ME TELL YA ABOUT DUKE, USED TO BE A RELIGIOUS SCHOOL....!" gets a lot more attention that the majority of Christians who will at least show respect for other people's religious sensibilities (to a reasonable point) and simply ask for the same in return.

It's a sad fact.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='20 May 2010 - 03:25 AM' timestamp='1274340354' post='2114068']
[img]http://www.toonpool.com/user/3311/files/muhammad_ali_579725.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
wow, jlo...didn't know you could paint! that's pretty good....

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Hassan' date='20 May 2010 - 08:56 AM' timestamp='1274360194' post='2114108']
I don't know why you assume they wouldn't reciprocate. I went to DC with a group of Muslims, Christians, and non-religious on an 'inter-faith trip' (I use scare quotes because most of it was us having fun in DC while performing one token group activity a day. It's for some program. A friend got me in and I got to have fun in DC for a weekend at a pretty cheap price). Anyway, we went to the Basilica in DC. The evangelical Christian didn't like it much (he's since become a friend, but on the trip it became clear that he didn't hold Catholicism in terribly high esteem, something that was a source of friction between us believe it or not). They were fairly astounded at the size and architecture and generally loved it. Unfortunately, as we were leaving they had to do the days final prayers and it wasn't clear where they could do them. We were on the big area outside of the Church but after you go up the stairs and nobody was around. They could have done them there and probably nobody would have seen but one objected that if she saw a nun paying the rosary outside a mosque like she was consecrating it, she would object to that, and even if they were just doing prayers there because of circumstances, if any Catholics walked by it may look to them like they were dedicating the Basilica to Islam through prayer or something. The rest agreed and we walked around until we got to the student center thing at Catholic University of America where they have DEUS EST MEA LUX (I first thought it was saying something about not eating meat until I realized it was latin) or whatever and they did the prayers there.

Obviously a great many Muslims don't show similar respect for other faiths. The current situation of the Cptic Christians in Egypt is a good example. But I think that on the whole, all other variables being held constant and equal. Most people do try to at least show some respect for the faiths of others. That generally has been my experience. The ones who don't usually get the most attention. The pit preacher who comes to my school and screams about the "MOZLEMS!" and "HINDOS" walking around the Chapel Hill campus (IT'S [i]CHAPEL[/i] HILL, BUT NOW THEY LETTIN MOZLEMS AND HINDOS WALK AROUND AN LET ME TELL YA ABOUT DUKE, USED TO BE A RELIGIOUS SCHOOL....!" gets a lot more attention that the majority of Christians who will at least show respect for other people's religious sensibilities (to a reasonable point) and simply ask for the same in return.

It's a sad fact.
[/quote]

Although we are called to evangelize, there is a right way and a wrong way to do it...aggravating others and hitting all the obvious buttons of the other person certainly wouldn't do much good...at least that's been my experience...

[Brother Adam]

I am glad that has been your experience, that Muslims respect Catholic beliefs. I unfortunately have not shared the same experience here. I do have a few Muslim friends that are very respectful as a whole or simply don't realize when they are not being respectful, a fault that can certainly be overlooked. It is the Muslims I encounter at MSU and UofM (I am 1/2 way between both schools) I generally have a poor experience with, as well as a lot of my experiences with outspoken Muslims on the Internet.

[Sternhauser]

I had an eye-opening experience concerning the Mahometan belief system. Years ago, I got to talking with a coworker (originally from Morocco) and somehow, he started the subject of religion. I tried to be "ecumenical," pointing out our faith similarities, how we worshiped the same God, the God of Abraham, etc. Completely out of the blue, he points at a Time magazine he had, depicting Jesus riding a donkey into Jerusalem, and said, "There is your Jesus." Nice. I would have loved to have drawn a picture of Mahomet surrounded by stalactites, smoke and flames, and said, "There is your Mahomet." That wouldn't have been appropriate, of course. I realized later he likely would have tried to kill me. But it would have been inappropriate even if he would not have tried to kill me, of course.

And while I know that one can certainly not judge a belief system by one of its claimed adherents,
such has been my experience with [practicing] Mahometans ever since, and I've come to some realizations. That they have no desire for "dialogue." They desire a Mahometan State, period. That we do [i]not[/i] worship the same God. No doubt they intend to. But it wasn't God that spoke to Mahomet. It was not God who caused Mahomet to want to jump off a cliff when he first heard the voice.

The attributes of the God you truly worship can be discerned by what his worship entails. Baal, for example, was a demon, for his worship required sacrificing babies. Diana was another demon, because her worship required sexual orgies. People tend to become like that which they really worship. Some people worship money and power. Some people worship the self. Some people worship the body. And some people worship Allah. "The god."

~Sternhauser

Edited May 20, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Nunsense]

I am very ignorant of Islam but what always struck me as odd about it is this idea that they follow the same 'God of Abraham' as Jews and Christians. It just seems to me that if the same 'God' had really spoken to Mohammed, wouldn't it have made sense for Him to have told Mohammed about sending His only Son into the world to redeem it? And wouldn't that have meant that Jesus would have been recognized as God by all Muslims as well?

If Mohammed's 'God' didn't happen to mention this fact to him, what does that imply? Well, to me, it simply says that it wasn't God who spoke to the Prophet. There is only one God and somehow I doubt that He happened to 'forget' to tell Mohammed about Jesus.

So the whole idea of us all having the same 'God of Abraham' is a bit confusing to me. I know that we are all supposed to worship the same God but I just don't see it for myself. Can someone enlighten me?

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='nunsense' date='20 May 2010 - 08:48 AM' timestamp='1274363284' post='2114124']
I am very ignorant of Islam but what always struck me as odd about it is this idea that they follow the same 'God of Abraham' as Jews and Christians. It just seems to me that if the same 'God' had really spoken to Mohammed, wouldn't it have made sense for Him to have told Mohammed about sending His only Son into the world to redeem it? And wouldn't that have meant that Jesus would have been recognized as God by all Muslims as well?

If Mohammed's 'God' didn't happen to mention this fact to him, what does that imply? Well, to me, it simply says that it wasn't God who spoke to the Prophet. There is only one God and somehow I doubt that He happened to 'forget' to tell Mohammed about Jesus.

So the whole idea of us all having the same 'God of Abraham' is a bit confusing to me. I know that we are all supposed to worship the same God but I just don't see it for myself. Can someone enlighten me?
[/quote]

The Mahometans allegedly also revere Jesus as a prophet. Apparently, he was a lying prophet, because he said he was God.

You "don't see it" because it's really not there. There's nothing wrong with your perception.

~Sternhauser

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='20 May 2010 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1274363509' post='2114125']
The Mahometans allegedly also revere Jesus as a prophet. Apparently, he was a lying prophet, because he said he was God.

You "don't see it" because it's really not there. There's nothing wrong with your perception.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


You make me laugh because you are always so direct. I would never have the courage to say things as bluntly as you do. I have heard that they consider Jesus a prophet (but obviously not as great a one as Mohammed) and that they also revere the Virgin Mary (but obviously not as the mother of God).

So why is it okay for them to look at images of the prophet Jesus but not the Prophet Mohammed?

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='T-Bone _' date='20 May 2010 - 04:18 AM' timestamp='1274339891' post='2114067']
Is this a good thing, or is it just needlessly aggravating an already tense situation?
[/quote]

Sadly and most logical conclusion, it is the latter.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='nunsense' date='20 May 2010 - 08:58 AM' timestamp='1274363919' post='2114127']
You make me laugh because you are always so direct. I would never have the courage to say things as bluntly as you do.[/quote]

Glad to make someone laugh. But really, we should fear sin and nothing else. Speak the truth, and let it hit hard. Don't waffle. Make a bold claim, and let people try to tear it apart. Don't let anyone take an argument into the realm of the emotional. Emotions should be subject to reason.

[quote]I have heard that they consider Jesus a prophet (but obviously not as great a one as Mohammed) and that they also revere the Virgin Mary (but obviously not as the mother of God)[/quote]

Then they don't revere the Virgin Mary. Because that's who she is.

[quote]So why is it okay for them to look at images of the prophet Jesus but not the Prophet Mohammed?
[/quote]

Jesus is more handsome.

~Sternhauser

Edited May 20, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='21 May 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1274364330' post='2114131']
Glad to make someone laugh. But really, we should fear sin and nothing else. Speak the truth, and let it hit hard. Don't waffle. Make a bold claim, and let people try to tear it apart. Don't let anyone take an argument into the realm of the emotional. Emotions should be subject to reason. [/quote]

Ah, but if I have all wisdom and lack charity....? I think I understand what you are saying, but my fear is that I might be unkind in the way I speak the truth, so perhaps I err on the side of caution, I don't know. That's okay, one Sternhauser is enough for the world. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]



[quote]Then they don't revere the Virgin Mary. Because that's who she is. [/quote]

True - they obviously revere their own misconception of her.


[quote] Jesus is more handsome. [/quote]

So true, dear brother, so true. He is Beauty itself... ancient and new.

[dominicansoul]

There are many evangelical protestants who take offense at images of Jesus...

It's sort of the same attitude the muslims have about images of mohammed, except protestants just object to images, period...i guess they think it's "idolatry."

[Nunsense]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='21 May 2010 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1274365492' post='2114140']
There are many evangelical protestants who take offense at images of Jesus...

It's sort of the same attitude the muslims have about images of mohammed, except protestants just object to images, period...i guess they think it's "idolatry."
[/quote]


Well, the thing is that I have a favorite drawing of Jesus but I know it isn't really His image since we don't have photographs of Him. The Shroud of Turin may be the closest thing we have to His real image, and I have seen the pictures that artists have drawn from that. I think I use my picture of Jesus more as a focus point than anything else because I know that I will never really know what He looked like until I am with Him, and even then, I doubt that He will appear in a form that is in any way as I can imagine Him. The picture that I love sort of captures a 'feeling' that makes me think of Him.

I had a dream once where I died and was taken into His presence. He was radiating a light of such intense love that I couldn't really see Him except as a 'being' within the light - hard to describe. Later in the dream He appeared to me in His human form surrounded by children (as I must have been imagining Him from various paintings) and He 'told me' in the dream that His 'real form' was the radiant being of light and love that I had first seen but that He was now revealing Himself in His human form so that He wouldn't 'scare the children'.

So I know that no picture of Him is going to capture Him in all His divine beauty, but I also like to remember that He was here on earth as a man, living as one of us and pictures of Him remind me of His humanity and the condescension of God.