Guy Ran Over A Goose

[Ziggamafu]

So I don't like geese. They poo on everything, hiss at you like snakes, and generally are a detriment to my enjoyment of any environment. Nevertheless, they are a conscious creature; they experience pain and suffering just like you or me, even though they lack the ability to reflect back upon the meaning of that suffering. Yada yada.

Anyway, this truck in front of me intentionally ran over a goose - somewhat slowly - in my apartment complex today. The goose was not killed and was still alive as I slowly drove past. I wanted to see if there was anything I could do for the creature but it looked too far gone. Honestly, I wanted to run it over again to kill it quickly but that's illegal and with my luck a cop would have pulled up right as I went for the mercy kill. So I drove past. And I've been feeling kind of bad about it since then. The goose was clearly dying a torturous and long-lasting death, while fighting to flop its blood-spurting body off the road.

I feel bad for animals because they cannot rationalize their pain or ascribe any meaning to it. They just feel it. Which seems, really, worse of a situation than that of us humans.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Ziggamafu

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='01 June 2010 - 11:09 AM' timestamp='1275401390' post='2122045']
So I don't like geese. They poo on everything, hiss at you like snakes, and generally are a detriment to my enjoyment of any environment. Nevertheless, they are a conscious creature; they experience pain and suffering just like you or me, even though they lack the ability to reflect back upon the meaning of that suffering. Yada yada.

Anyway, this truck in front of me intentionally ran over a goose - somewhat slowly - in my apartment complex today. The goose was not killed and was still alive as I slowly drove past. I wanted to see if there was anything I could do for the creature but it looked too far gone. Honestly, I wanted to run it over again to kill it quickly but that's illegal and with my luck a cop would have pulled up right as I went for the mercy kill. So I drove past. And I've been feeling kind of bad about it since then. The goose was clearly dying a torturous and long-lasting death, while fighting to flop its blood-spurting body off the road.

I feel bad for animals because they cannot rationalize their pain or ascribe any meaning to it. They just feel it. Which seems, really, worse of a situation than that of us humans.
[/quote]
I hate people who deliberately hurt animals!

[KnightofChrist]

Thanks to my reading parts of words backwards I read "Ray Gun Over a Goose", and I thought who wouldn't choose a ray gun over a goose!?

And you should report the person to the police.

Edited June 1, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Paddington]

That is horrible.

Don't feel bad Zigga, you were conflicted.

I think next time you should go for the mercy killing and calling the cops. That person could be some kind of dangerous sociopath. I mean who the heck slowly runs over a goose in the morning?

[Vincent Vega]

Call me cold, but I'd call that natural selection. It's a goose; it can fly. It ought to know to get out of the way of predators, be them lions, guys with ray guns, or Suburbans. If it can't do that...darwinism.

[Luthien]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='01 June 2010 - 01:41 PM' timestamp='1275406903' post='2122095']
Call me cold, but I'd call that natural selection. It's a goose; it can fly. It ought to know to get out of the way of predators, be them lions, guys with ray guns, or Suburbans. If it can't do that...darwinism.
[/quote]


Geese need running starts to get flying, I doubt a goose can out run a truck.

[Lilllabettt]

I feel bad when animals suffer because their pain is our fault. We destroyed the perfect world with original sin, and now these innocent creatures have to experience pain. Going to the vet is a total guilt trip.

Ever notice how in movies, saving the animal makes everything okay?

Opening scene of "Twister" = little dog gets into the cellar at the last minute; shortly thereafter the Dad is sucked up into the Tornado ... but at least the dog is safe!

Explosion scene in "Independence Day" = the tunnel is filled with flames, and people are roasting to death, but the golden retriever makes it into that protective closet that Will Smith's girlfriend/ her son are both hiding out in ... just in time.

Flood scene in "2012" = Russian girlfriend lady is drowning, but she manages to push her cute little dog to safety. Afterwords, the survivors pet the dog and don't seem broken up at all about poor Russian lady.

I think this is evidence of a universal subconscious human reaction to the reality of original sin and our responsibility for it. The suffering/death of an animal is too cruel; we turn away from it, because it touches a guilty nerve.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='01 June 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1275408015' post='2122100']
I think this is evidence of a universal subconscious human reaction to the reality of original sin and our responsibility for it. The suffering/death of an animal is too cruel; we turn away from it, because it touches a guilty nerve.
[/quote]
Speak for yourself, apple munching double-x chromosomer.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='01 June 2010 - 09:41 AM' timestamp='1275406903' post='2122095']
Call me cold, but I'd call that natural selection. It's a goose; it can fly. It ought to know to get out of the way of predators, be them lions, guys with ray guns, or Suburbans. If it can't do that...darwinism.
[/quote]
It's one thing to kill an animal for food, and quite another to intentionally fatally wound it for no purpose other than laziness. I suspect this truck driver didn't want to get out of his truck to shoo the goose away, since he was driving slow. That's pretty disturbing. The other option, that he injured it just 'cause he wanted to injure an animal, is even more disturbing.

I've never been a big fan of how Darwin's philosophy plays out in its view of humanity, and the view you espouse here is a case in point. As human beings, we are not slaves to our baser impulses. We have a choice in how we conduct ourselves in our behaviors toward other humans and towards animals. We are also, in my opinion (I have no time at the moment to look up relevant authority) charged with taking care of creation. While we are allowed to kill animals and plants for food, I'm pretty sure destruction of life for no purpose other than pleasure or laziness is not in accord with our caretaking duties.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='01 June 2010 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1275408015' post='2122100']
I think this is evidence of a universal subconscious human reaction to the reality of original sin and our responsibility for it. The suffering/death of an animal is too cruel; we turn away from it, because it touches a guilty nerve.
[/quote]

I'd have to concur.

I personally don't care for animals that much. I appreciate them, but I am not militant about animal rights. I'd rather take care of them to an extent, but as long as their are people dying or mistreated I will not treat a dog with the same dignity.

[Luthien]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='01 June 2010 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1275408858' post='2122106']
It's one thing to kill an animal for food, and quite another to intentionally fatally wound it for no purpose other than laziness. I suspect this truck driver didn't want to get out of his truck to shoo the goose away, since he was driving slow. That's pretty disturbing. The other option, that he injured it just 'cause he wanted to injure an animal, is even more disturbing.

I've never been a big fan of how Darwin's philosophy plays out in its view of humanity, and the view you espouse here is a case in point. As human beings, we are not slaves to our baser impulses. We have a choice in how we conduct ourselves in our behaviors toward other humans and towards animals. We are also, in my opinion (I have no time at the moment to look up relevant authority) charged with taking care of creation. While we are allowed to kill animals and plants for food, I'm pretty sure destruction of life for no purpose other than pleasure or laziness is not in accord with our caretaking duties.
[/quote]


IAWTP

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='01 June 2010 - 12:14 PM' timestamp='1275408858' post='2122106']
I've never been a big fan of how Darwin's philosophy plays out in its view of humanity, and the view you espouse here is a case in point. As human beings, we are not slaves to our baser impulses. We have a choice in how we conduct ourselves in our behaviors toward other humans and towards animals. We are also, in my opinion (I have no time at the moment to look up relevant authority) charged with taking care of creation. While we are allowed to kill animals and plants for food, I'm pretty sure destruction of life for no purpose other than pleasure or laziness is not in accord with our caretaking duties.
[/quote]
I didn't say that the guy was justified in killing the goose, just that the goose probably should have been able to get out of the way (per the o.p., the truck was travelling "slowly" and was implicated to have been in a parking lot). It might be slightly evolutionarily unfair to shoot wolves from a helicopter, but I'd say that getting away from large, slow-moving predators should be a basic evolutionary device for self-perpetuation in any species.
None of what I've been saying has been trying to excuse the driver's actions, I'm just saying that the goose should have been able to avoid it.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='01 June 2010 - 10:15 AM' timestamp='1275408958' post='2122107']
. . . I appreciate them, but I am not militant about animal rights. . . .
[/quote]
I agree . . . animals do not have rights. Nevertheless, I do believe that they should be treated humanely.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='01 June 2010 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1275409383' post='2122110']
I didn't say that the guy was justified in killing the goose, just that the goose probably should have been able to get out of the way (per the o.p., the truck was travelling "slowly" and was implicated to have been in a parking lot). It might be slightly evolutionarily unfair to shoot wolves from a helicopter, but I'd say that getting away from large, slow-moving predators should be a basic evolutionary device for self-perpetuation in any species.
None of what I've been saying has been trying to excuse the driver's actions, I'm just saying that the goose should have been able to avoid it.
[/quote]
Maybe it didn't see the truck as a predator. It isn't, after all, a naturally occurring species.

Regardless, your statement implied that the goose deserved what it got. I don't believe that to be true -- what it got was unjust, and not even a dumb animal deserves injustice.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='01 June 2010 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1275408958' post='2122107']
I'd have to concur.

I personally don't care for animals that much. I appreciate them, but I am not militant about animal rights. I'd rather take care of them to an extent, but as long as their are people dying or mistreated I will not treat a dog with the same dignity.
[/quote]


Are you concurring with me? I concur with you. Dogs are not the same as people.

But I think the "save the pet" trend in entertainment media has a deeper significance. When the little dog made into the cellar in Twister, or into the utility closet in Independence Day, or out of the flooding container in 2012, the audience in the movie theater actually clapped and cheered. Despite the fact that humans had been sucked up, roasted, or drowned in those same scenes. I don't think its just that the masses have been so brainwashed by the tree hugging crowd that they really believe human life is less important than animal life.

[spoiler]In contrast: when Will Smith's dog dies in "I am Legend" ... people booed.[/spoiler]

Maybe it is a dog thing?

Edited June 1, 2010 by Lilllabettt

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='01 June 2010 - 12:31 PM' timestamp='1275409915' post='2122112']
Regardless, your statement implied that the goose deserved what it got. I don't believe that to be true -- what it got was unjust, and not even a dumb animal deserves injustice.
[/quote]
Perhaps that was your inference, but was not the implication. The implication was that he should have been able to avert the situation. It's similar to a clumsy electrician. He's working in an outlet and due to his own carelessness gets electrocuted. Did he deserve to die? No. Should he have been able to avoid the situation. Yes.
That's my claim.

[Luthien]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='01 June 2010 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1275409383' post='2122110']
I didn't say that the guy was justified in killing the goose, just that the goose probably should have been able to get out of the way (per the o.p., the truck was travelling "slowly" and was implicated to have been in a parking lot). It might be slightly evolutionarily unfair to shoot wolves from a helicopter, but I'd say that getting away from large, slow-moving predators should be a basic evolutionary device for self-perpetuation in any species.
None of what I've been saying has been trying to excuse the driver's actions, I'm just saying that the goose should have been able to avoid it.
[/quote]


You try and waddle at 15 MPH.

[Apotheoun]

Justice is a term that applies only to rational beings, and so I would avoid using that word in connection with irrational animals.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='01 June 2010 - 01:56 PM' timestamp='1275411410' post='2122131']
Justice is a term that applies only to rational beings, and so I would avoid using that word in connection with irrational animals.
[/quote]
I think animals show far more rationality than many humans.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='01 June 2010 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1275412953' post='2122156']
I think animals show far more rationality than many humans.
[/quote]
Human beings can act contrary to their nature, and such acts are called sins, but the Church teaches that sins do not alter human nature.