On Reading Holy Scripture

[the lumberjack]

Jason, Paul speaks to new Christians in that passage...not to every Christian.

he says that some teachings and knowledge aren't for new Christians...

but if thats the ways YOU want to use the passage, ok.

and dust....I'm sorry if I'm being ugly...I'm tired of being "just another dumb protestant on this board"

God chose a simple gospel to be preached...not one of religious mysticism, to be carried to the world. He chose simple men to carry it out, not papal representatives that sit in their regal dress, away from the laity...and this is my church.

a 2000 year old gospel for a sinful world.

not 1600+ years of papal documents, decrees and councils.

[Jake Huether]

[quote]God chose a simple gospel to be preached...[/quote]

Amen to that brotha'!

The Catholic Church would be soooo simple if it didn't have to fight off so much heresy!

But unfortunatly that's what happens when you have people thinking that they can privately interprate the Bible.


Jesus said my burden is light. And it is! Inside the Catholic Church it is soooo light.


But it becomes complex when you are handed a Bible and told to read it by yourself and interpret it by yourself.

If people would have just listened to the Church and practiced what she Taught, life would be much simpler.

But we are gluttons for a heavy burden. I don't think we can live without trying to make our burden heavier.

That is why Christ established a Church - so that we, the sheep, could just simply follow the lead.

But some sheep want to make themselves leaders, and so we now have many sheep leading sheep.

Come back to the flock under one Shepherd - the shepherd that Christ appointed on earth.

[Paladin D]

Lumberjack, I own two bibles... and I read the Holy Scriptures.

I don't understand. Just because I do not read the Holy Scriptures, expecting to [b]"make-up"[/b] my own doctrine, doesn't mean I don't read it with a sincere heart.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 19 2004, 01:52 PM'] a 2000 year old gospel for a sinful world.

not 1600+ years of papal documents, decrees and councils. [/quote]
The Bible has always been around, before the first denomination. The thing you must remember is this...

[b]1.[/b] The printing press was not invented till much later, thus there weren't a vast amount of Bibles around. Each Bible had to be hand-copied.

[b]2.[/b] Because of this, a Bible was a very valuable book. People would try and steal them no doubt to make money, so they had Bibles attached to a chain inside a church.

...not to mention, the person who invented the Printing Press was Catholic. And the first Bible to be printed was a Catholic one.

[the lumberjack]

Paladin, how does any of the doctrine I've "made up" conflict with the Bible? if you can show me that, then I will say you are right.

context.

and you're very right when you say that the bible has been around for a VERY long time.

[maxk]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 19 2004, 01:20 PM'] Paladin, how does any of the doctrine I've "made up" conflict with the Bible? if you can show me that, then I will say you are right.

context.

and you're very right when you say that the bible has been around for a VERY long time. [/quote]
The Bible never claims to be the sole rule of faith. [i]Sola Scriptura[/i] is never in the Bible...

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 19 2004, 01:52 PM']
God chose a simple gospel to be preached...not one of religious mysticism, to be carried to the world. He chose simple men to carry it out, not papal representatives that sit in their regal dress, away from the laity...and this is my church.

a 2000 year old gospel for a sinful world.

not 1600+ years of papal documents, decrees and councils. [/quote]
The protestant groups do not defend against heresy like the Church, having no uniform creed to defend. They simply go start a new group.

So of course, there aren't 2000 years of protestant documents to be found.

And please don't say there is a simple gospel to be preached, that works if you are preaching to 7 year olds. God is not simple, and most people over 7 can come up with zillions of questions that aren't simple.
So dogma needs explained and clarified, and we have been doing it for 2000 years.

You cannot tell me you consider the epistles of Paul to be simple. They were letters written to communities with different problems, and he was not writing them to produce a book. They are not totally consistant.
Even Peter said they could be confusing. They certainly never meant to be a sole rule of faith. This idea didn't even exist before the 1500s, so that would be a tradition of men.

[amarkich]

[quote]The Bible has always been around, before the first denomination. The thing you must remember is this...[/quote]

This quote seems rather ambiguous. Are you referring to "denominations" of Christianity (in which you include the Church as a denomination and consider heresies as denominations) or are you referring simply to the different denominations of the Protestant heresy (as well as other heresies)? I expect that it is referring to the 'denominations' of heresy for a few reasons (I will be inclined to simply call them heresies rather than "denominations of heresy" throughout the post). The first thing that must be recognized is that the Bible did not exist before the Church. In fact, the Bible comes from the Church. In regard to Bible reading, it should be noted that the Protestant heresy as well as the other heresies which came earlier, e.g., Arianism, Manichaeism, Albigensianism, etc., and those which came after, e.g., Modernism and Americanism, the New Age and Charismatic movements, etc., all collectively dissent from the Church and therefore the Truth. Some of the more modern movements focus very strongly on the Bible (basically the Protestant heresy to modern heresies do this) and downplay or reject the authority of the Church, but as other individuals have stated, the concept of Sola Scriptura is an unbiblical, man-made doctrine, a "doctrine of demons" as it were (to use the diction of Saint Paul who, by the way, as cmotherofpirl has mentioned, does not write a simple message). So, lumberjack, it is very clear that your invented doctrines are contrary to the Bible, so are you prepared to admit to Paladin that he is correct? God bless.

[amarkich]

Also, lumberjack, as an aside, you have those numbers backwards. It should be: 2000+ years of Church teaching, 1600 years of the the Bible (which was, by the way, promulgated by the Church). Interesting, eh? God bless.

[Justified Saint]

Is it true that Kempis's work has been the most read/influential spiritual work besides the Bible? (Of course heaven forbid that we get spiritual discernment apart fromt he Bible, unless its [i]Left Behind[/i] of course. )

[Livin_the_MASS]

I've herd it called the 5th Gospel.

God Bless
Jason

[Paladin D]

[quote name='amarkich' date='Apr 19 2004, 08:26 PM']
This quote seems rather ambiguous. Are you referring to "denominations" of Christianity (in which you include the Church as a denomination and consider heresies as denominations) or are you referring simply to the different denominations of the Protestant heresy (as well as other heresies)? I expect that it is referring to the 'denominations' of heresy for a few reasons (I will be inclined to simply call them heresies rather than "denominations of heresy" throughout the post). The first thing that must be recognized is that the Bible did not exist before the Church. In fact, the Bible comes from the Church. In regard to Bible reading, it should be noted that the Protestant heresy as well as the other heresies which came earlier, e.g., Arianism, Manichaeism, Albigensianism, etc., and those which came after, e.g., Modernism and Americanism, the New Age and Charismatic movements, etc., all collectively dissent from the Church and therefore the Truth. Some of the more modern movements focus very strongly on the Bible (basically the Protestant heresy to modern heresies do this) and downplay or reject the authority of the Church, but as other individuals have stated, the concept of Sola Scriptura is an unbiblical, man-made doctrine, a "doctrine of demons" as it were (to use the diction of Saint Paul who, by the way, as cmotherofpirl has mentioned, does not write a simple message). So, lumberjack, it is very clear that your invented doctrines are contrary to the Bible, so are you prepared to admit to Paladin that he is correct? God bless. [/quote]
I was refering to the Orthodox split and the Protestant Reformation.

[Justified Saint]

[quote]I've herd it called the 5th Gospel.[/quote]

Well, that would logically follow since Catholics wrote the first four.

It is amazing how some(*cough lumberjack cough*) can actually say that Catholics don't know how to think for themselves when it is the Catholic faith that has created the greatest thinkers, writers, and artists in history.

[God Conquers]

YES!!! AMEN!

[Justified Saint]

I was inspired so I just went out and bought "The Imitation of Christ".

[Dave]

[quote name='Justified Saint' date='Apr 19 2004, 08:35 PM'] It is amazing how some(*cough lumberjack cough*) can actually say that Catholics don't know how to think for themselves when it is the Catholic faith that has created the greatest thinkers, writers, and artists in history. [/quote]
Like I said elsewhere, faithful Catholics DO think for themselves. They listen to what the Church has to say and why, and they decide for themselves that the Church is right. Catholics DO have minds of their own, and their minds tell them it makes good sense to listen to what the Church says!

[Jake Huether]

[quote name='Dave' date='Apr 19 2004, 09:23 PM'] Like I said elsewhere, faithful Catholics DO think for themselves. They listen to what the Church has to say and why, and they decide for themselves that the Church is right. Catholics DO have minds of their own, and their minds tell them it makes good sense to listen to what the Church says! [/quote]
Great reply. Amen to that! I've thought about it, and um.... I'm staying. LOL.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Justified Saint' date='Apr 19 2004, 11:06 PM'] I was inspired so I just went out and bought "The Imitation of Christ". [/quote]

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='Dave' date='Apr 19 2004, 10:23 PM'] Like I said elsewhere, faithful Catholics DO think for themselves. They listen to what the Church has to say and why, and they decide for themselves that the Church is right. Catholics DO have minds of their own, and their minds tell them it makes good sense to listen to what the Church says! [/quote]
sure, you weigh NEW catholic tradition against old, yet still approved, catholic tradition, and as long as there are a couple of bible verses in there to support the new catholic point, you'll go with it.

you fear the laws of men, rather than the Word of God.

what about this last Sunday? when Divine Mercy Sunday was held for the first time, officially?

could you elaborate on that?

[cmotherofpirl]

Divine Mercy is just celebrating another facet of God's love for us.

That is certainly nothing new.