Nihil Obstat Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='02 July 2010 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1278130983' post='2137252'] arrogant jerk [/quote] Precocious twerp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='03 July 2010 - 12:36 AM' timestamp='1278131774' post='2137258'] We must pray even for those whom persecute us! We are to pray for those that beat us, stone us, or even crucify us. Why are we called to pray for those that hate us, even unto death at their hands? Yet if they just ask us not to pray for them we dont have to? St. Stephen as he was stoned to death prayed for those murdering him. In obedience to Christ prayed for those that hated him. Would he not need have prayed if they yelled back at him "Shut up Christian we demand ( request ) you not pray God have mercy on us!" If those who crucified our Blessed Lord "requested" He not pray for them. Should Christ have not prayed "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"? [/quote] How many times do I have to say "yes we pray for those who persecute us"? Seriously this is not that complicated. I would argue that there are people who have persecuted me much more than Christopher Hitchens (who hasn't persecuted me at all) and they have been prayed for. Like I said feel free to pray for him! If it turns out that he converts and owes it to the prayers of millions of Christians, i will happily admit that I was wrong. But stop lumping in "pray for your enemies " with someone who asks you not to pray for his soul. Its not the same thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 At some point, we are all enemies of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 Can we all stop hating on Rex now? If he never shared his age on Phatmass he would have be taken as a grad student.'Kay thanks. [quote name='hot stuff' date='02 July 2010 - 06:07 PM' timestamp='1278108448' post='2137104'] It isn't respect God rather than man its whoever loves God must love his brother. And that is dramatically different than what you are saying [/quote] To love one's brother is to pray for him, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='03 July 2010 - 01:03 AM' timestamp='1278133430' post='2137265'] How many times do I have to say "yes we pray for those who persecute us"? Seriously this is not that complicated. I would argue that there are people who have persecuted me much more than Christopher Hitchens (who hasn't persecuted me at all) and they have been prayed for. Like I said feel free to pray for him! If it turns out that he converts and owes it to the prayers of millions of Christians, i will happily admit that I was wrong. But stop lumping in "pray for your enemies " with someone who asks you not to pray for his soul. Its not the same thing at all. [/quote] I agree with you, it's not exactly the same thing. You're still wrong, though. Also the reason Nihil dropped out is because the longer this thread gets the more circles will be drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='03 July 2010 - 12:17 AM' timestamp='1278130669' post='2137249'] The failure in your argument is the first line. Simply because he disagrees with the Church does not make him an enemy of her. He states his opinion to anyone who listens. He does not advocate for laws against the Church. He simply holds an opinion. He has killed no Catholics. He has not called for the death of any Catholics. He has not infringed on anyone's ability to celebrate their faith. [/quote] Anyone who is an anti-theist is an enemy of the Church. Spiritual violence is much more evil and deadly than physical violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 hot stuff, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a key element to your position the idea that prayer can have a coercive effect on those prayed for? If you saw prayer as being efficacious in a way that is not coercive, would you still find it problematical? True, you wouldn't be following his wishes, but you wouldn't in any sense be violating his free will, and it seems that that potential violation is your chief objection. What if your prayers would give grace space to operate without in any sense forcing him? I think that's closer to the vision of prayer that many of us have, which would definitely make it more difficult for us to accept your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 There are a lot of really big words in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 [quote name='Winchester' date='03 July 2010 - 01:42 AM' timestamp='1278135767' post='2137280'] There are a lot of really big words in there... [/quote] "you" means the person to whom she is speaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 [quote name='aalpha1989' date='03 July 2010 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1278135919' post='2137281'] "you" means the person to whom she is speaking [/quote] and the horse you rode in on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='03 July 2010 - 01:03 AM' timestamp='1278133430' post='2137265'] How many times do I have to say "yes we pray for those who persecute us"? Seriously this is not that complicated. I would argue that there are people who have persecuted me much more than Christopher Hitchens (who hasn't persecuted me at all) and they have been prayed for. Like I said feel free to pray for him! If it turns out that he converts and owes it to the prayers of millions of Christians, i will happily admit that I was wrong. But stop lumping in "pray for your enemies " with someone who asks you not to pray for his soul. Its not the same thing at all. [/quote] Forgive me for not making my meaning clear. Love and Prayer for ones neighbor whether friend or foe was a commandment Christians followed unto death. Now you purpose a new found loophole. A way out of praying for your brother who's soul is made in the image of the Divine Logos. Again If those who crucified our Blessed Lord "requested" He not pray for them. Should He not have prayed "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='02 July 2010 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1278129209' post='2137236'] When a 16 year old takes the position of "Well there's nothing I can teach you" then he's assuming he CAN teach me something. That is inappropriate and arrogant. [/quote] Ah, now I think I understand your very reasonable and humble point You are a middle age man who has vouchsafed his position as a wise and learned theological thinker by being named a "Church Scholar" on a website called phatmass. Your age and exaulted, nay glorious and infinitly admirable, achievemt of being named a Church Scholar on phatmass entitles you to a certain ammout of respect. You were merely attempting to go about your God given duty of imparting your vast and pratically infallible theological learning on others when this snott nosed twerp had the arrogance to think that he could teach you, the learned and glorious hot stuff, something about Catholicism. Naturally, you couldn't stand for that. For the humility and modesty with which you have gone about correcting this unlearned twerp, you will indeed be praised by my children and my children's children. ALL HAIL THE GLORIOUS hot stuff! GOD'S CURSE BE UPON THOSE SO CONSUMED WITH PRIDE THAT THEY DELUDE THEMSELVES ONTO THINKING THAT THEY MIGHT ADD ONE KERNAL OF KNOWLEDGE TO HIS MOST VAST AND VENERABLE KNOWLEDGE!!! MAY THE VENERATON OF HIS KNOWLEDGE BE ETERNAL. A CURSE UPON THE WICKED AND PROUD REXI! MAY HE BE REMEMBERED WITH DISDAIN FOR ETERNITY! SHUN THE VILE AND HAUGHTY FOOL WHO BELIEVED HE MIGHT TEACH THE GLORIOUS hot stuff ONE SINGLE THING. MAY REXI THE ARROGANT BE ANATHEMA!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 You misspelled "exalted." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='03 July 2010 - 12:01 AM' timestamp='1278129687' post='2137239'] yes it really was a dramatic misquote. Its called paraphrasing kiddo. Now you can either get your feathers ruffled, or join the discussion in a mature fashion. You haven't answered the question I posed. How do you come to the conclusion that Christopher Hitchens is my enemy? Is it simply because he doesn't believe what I believe? [/quote] OH PHATMASS! GAZE IN WONDER UPON THE GLORIOUS SPRING OF WISDOM THAT IS hot stuff! WHILE TO WRETCHED AND IGNORANT FOOL LIKE MYSELF IT MAY SEEM THAT hot stuff IS BEING A BIT OF A HYPOCRITE FOR INVITING REXI TO DISCUSS THE ISSUE IN A MATURE FASHION WHEN hot stuff HAS CONTINUALLY BEEN PATRONIZING AND SNARKY TO REXI, I HAVE THE HUMILITY TO KNOW THAT THIS IS REALLY JUST A LIMITATION ON MY PART! FOR SURELY hot stuff IS NOT TRUELY ACTING LIKE A PASSIVE AGRESSIVE 13 YEAR OLD GIRL, BUT IS ONLY ALLOWING HIMSELF TO APPEAR TO BE ACTING THIS WAY SO THAT HE MIGHT CORRECT THE ARROGANT REXI AND, IN HIS MERCY, PERHAPS ALLOW REXI TO SIP FRON THE POOL OF HIS KNOWLEDGE AND THUS BE ENLIGHTENED. OH, THE MERCY OF hot stuff THE WISE KNOWS NO BOUNDS TRUELY ALL WE YOUNGER THAN HIM ARE GRACED TO BE ABLE TO READ HIS THOUGHTS! ALL HAIL JAINE THE GLORIOUS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 [quote name='Winchester' date='03 July 2010 - 02:13 AM' timestamp='1278137586' post='2137290'] You misspelled "exalted." [/quote] I'm older than you and, in my own estimation, far wiser. It is inappropiate and arrogant of you to try to correct me in this way. Take your spelling sophistry elsewhere please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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