2012

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='10 July 2010 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1278815319' post='2141026']
Turns out term limits are a good thing.
Perhaps we ought to have congressional term limits?
[/quote]

That'll just speed up the idiot-revolving door at the Capital Building.

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' date='11 July 2010 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1278818310' post='2141047']
[b]I think it is too simple of an answer to suggest term limits.[/b] It is not a problem with our governmental structure or with the specific elected officials, though there are problems with them and I could come up with a few suggestions on possible changes. Term limits won't solve anything and wouldn't really limit corruption. The problem is with the prevailing culture of utilitarianism and pragmatism and the fact that people do not live as if there are great universals that make daily actions important and give such actions meaning. This is the problem, not that we don't have term limits. The term limits would solve nothing, the culture and mindset must be changed if things are to change in America.
[/quote]


[quote name='CatherineM' date='11 July 2010 - 12:03 PM' timestamp='1278860585' post='2141180']
[b]Congress is complicated.[/b] It takes time to really understand how things work. Term limits would simply take the power out of elder statesmen senator types, and put them into the hands of career legislative aids. I'm not saying that would be bad, but that is how it would work, and we don't get to vote on those guys.
[/quote]

I bolded those statements above to just point out that, if we truely lived in a democracy or republic or whatever, should the government not be simple enough for everyone to get? I mean, I thought the idea of a democracy was so that everyone could be a part of the system. Of course I mean besides voting, (of which quite a few are not a part of). So, just really a question from me is why does the government have to be so complicated? Should we not simplify so that everyone could maybe, be on the same page, because obviously even those that are a part of the government don't get it.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='10 July 2010 - 06:30 PM' timestamp='1278801012' post='2140939']
Who are you a fan of?
[/quote]
I like ron paul.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='MIkolbe' date='11 July 2010 - 05:55 PM' timestamp='1278881711' post='2141294']
I like ron paul.
[/quote]

Good.

: )

[MIKolbe]

yes, i am.. thanks.

[ThePenciledOne]

[Socrates]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='11 July 2010 - 12:28 PM' timestamp='1278865721' post='2141197']
My choice for 2012. [img]http://www.maniacworld.com/vote-for-nobody.jpg[/img]

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
Yep, if you keep voting for nobody, people like Obama will just topple from power.

Just like not voting in 2008 did wonders towards ending government tyranny.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Socrates' date='11 July 2010 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1278893147' post='2141384']
Yep, if you keep voting for nobody, people like Obama will just topple from power.

Just like not voting in 2008 did wonders towards ending government tyranny.
[/quote]

First, I do not refrain from voting primarily because of pragmatic issues.

But, pragmatically speaking . . .

If 90% of the population doesn't vote, what happens, Socrates? Are those 10% really going to be able to impose their policies on others who are apathetic toward or opposed to their wills? Prohibition was clinically dead long before the repeal came along.

What has voting accomplished in the past 150 years for advancing the causes of true liberty and "ending government tyranny?" Is that why you vote? To end government tyranny? Even mitigate it? Either way, it hasn't worked out too well, has it?

Personally, I don't care if my personal veto "accomplishes" any change in the State. It accomplishes a change in my personal life. In my soul.

~Sternhauser

Edited July 12, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' date='11 July 2010 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1278818310' post='2141047']
[b]I think it is too simple of an answer to suggest term limits.[/b] It is not a problem with our governmental structure or with the specific elected officials, though there are problems with them and I could come up with a few suggestions on possible changes. Term limits won't solve anything and wouldn't really limit corruption. The problem is with the prevailing culture of utilitarianism and pragmatism and the fact that people do not live as if there are great universals that make daily actions important and give such actions meaning. This is the problem, not that we don't have term limits. The term limits would solve nothing, the culture and mindset must be changed if things are to change in America.
[/quote]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='11 July 2010 - 05:47 PM' timestamp='1278881248' post='2141292']
I bolded those statements above to just point out that, if we truely lived in a democracy or republic or whatever, should the government not be simple enough for everyone to get? I mean, I thought the idea of a democracy was so that everyone could be a part of the system. Of course I mean besides voting, (of which quite a few are not a part of). So, just really a question from me is why does the government have to be so complicated? Should we not simplify so that everyone could maybe, be on the same page, because obviously even those that are a part of the government don't get it.
[/quote]

I apologize. I don't know that I was clear enough in my writing. When I say the problem is complicated, I do not mean that our government is too complicated. I mean that the problem is not the way the government is structured or can be fixed by amending the structure of the government. The problem is much bigger than the government and is actually tied up with the culture, which we must change first if we are to truly change the way government seems to be operating these days.

To your second question, why must government be complicated? Problems are complicated, countries are complicated, and people are complicated. Ideally, government adapts overtime to address problems it sees and as such becomes complicated to address complicated issues. However, a government which is able to work on problems on the level closest to the people works best. Following this principle (which most people ignore in order to aggregate power onto one specific level) I think would do well to help people "get it."