krissylou Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Off I go to visit the Carmelite monastery. Not THAT kind of a visit. Just a visit visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laetitia crucis Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Suuuure ya arrre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Veronica Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 [quote name='krissylou' date='10 July 2010 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1278781196' post='2140775'] Off I go to visit the Carmelite monastery. Not THAT kind of a visit. Just a visit visit. [/quote] we will pray for you, guwahahahahahaa that you're visit will be, indeed, most pleasant.... .... guwahahahahaha... seriously have a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 We did what now? Have a nice time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissylou Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 I can report that the chapel is gorgeous. Not that I have tons of experience, but it was MUCH fancier than the Poor Clare or Cistercian monastery chapels I've seen. And big -- the public section seats maybe 200-250. Pretty stained glass windows of people in Carmelite habits -- Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross I recognized, but not the others. No Therese of Lisieux -- this foundation was in 1890. Not sure when the chapel as we see it now was finished but it very likely predated Therese's canonization. The nuns' choir is VERY separate from the public chapel. Basically it would seem like a perfectly normal church except with these strange voices seemingly coming from a closet or something ... this still seems odd to me. I'm sure this is partially to do with having the architecture of a very old building. The Poor Clares in my neighborhood (one neighborhood over) have the chapel just open during the day. It's locked up at night, but during the day anyone can just walk in. There's a little gift shop that you can wander around in too -- but it's unattended. Ring a bell and a Sister will come if you want to buy something -- but it would be easy as anything to just walk off with a book or rosary or something. Here I had to ring a doorbell to get into the building. A layperson answered the door and showed me to the chapel and she was hanging out and monitoring the gift shop. A chunk of this difference (possibly all) I'm sure is because Roxbury is as "inner city" as it gets. People get killed on the streets. Where I live is definitely "the city" but it isn't remotely like that. I'm glad to know of this powerhouse of prayer in Roxbury. Heaven knows we need it there! Interestingly, as I was leaving the chapel I saw a Sister passing through the gift shop and saying something to the lay volunteer who was monitoring. Sister didn't need to be staying strictly in the cloistered area of the monastery. (Maybe an extern, but the website doesn't distinguish between choir nuns and externs.) She was in a habit, but no veil. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissylou Posted July 11, 2010 Author Share Posted July 11, 2010 Googled dates. This monastery was founded in 1890. I don't know when their building was finished, but Therese of Lisieux died in 1897. No wonder she's not pictured in the stained glass windows of Carmelite saints. Wow. History is really not all that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresitacarmel Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 [quote name='krissylou' date='10 July 2010 - 12:59 PM' timestamp='1278781196' post='2140775'] Off I go to visit the Carmelite monastery. Not THAT kind of a visit. Just a visit visit. [/quote] We're gonna get to you sooner or later! wahahahahaha!!!! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif[/img] Seriously though, that sounds like a lovely visit...any pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissylou Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 [quote name='teresitacarmel' date='11 July 2010 - 03:44 AM' timestamp='1278834245' post='2141135'] We're gonna get to you sooner or later! wahahahahaha!!!! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif[/img] Seriously though, that sounds like a lovely visit...any pics? [/quote] I didn't snap any, but here are a couple photos of the chapel. It was so gorgeous -- and the nuns never see it! http://www.carmelitesofboston.org/ (hmmm. It doesn't want to give a direct link. Odd. But click on "Boston Carmel Today" and "Touring our Monastery.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 [quote name='teresitacarmel' date='11 July 2010 - 02:44 AM' timestamp='1278834245' post='2141135'] We're gonna get to you sooner or later! wahahahahaha!!!! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif[/img] Seriously though, that sounds like a lovely visit...any pics? [/quote] To VS "newbies--The folks in VS tease us because they love us, and they truly want us to be happy. And, even if they tease us that they'll "get us" someday, what they really want is for us to be happy and fulfilled in whatever form of life God chooses for us. (Although, they make no apology for the fact that they think that part of that would be to be an active, orthodox Catholic, but they are usually respectful that God has his own ways of working, and his own timing, and too much pressure can backfire.) Krissylou--It DOES sound like you had a lovely visit to a beautiful church, and a wonderful service. I wish I could get around better, because there are many places that aren't THAT far away that I know I would enjoy visiting informally. I think people on VS know that even though I like to tease Vee8 about Carmelites, I have a true respect for them. But they also realize that I wouldn't last more than a short time on a visit to a Carmelite monastery--even on an "informal retreat." Maybe I'd unintentionally sigh when the nuns read from St. Therese or talked about her, or worse, I'd accidentally fall asleep (it happens). Plus, I have a face that can't hide my true feelings, so even if I said nothing, my face would give everything away. If my guest room had a bloody crucifix hanging over my bed, I wouldn't be purposely rude and ask to have it taken down. Instead, I would try my best not to have it bother me. But, but after awhile, lying in bed, not being able to sleep, I'd get so creeped out that I'd try to take the crucifix down myself, and almost certainly would accidentally drop it (my manual dexterity isn't the best, and I sometimes get dizzy). With my luck, the corpus would come off, and I'd drop Jesus on the floor. I travel with am extra mattress pad to help my pain, and even though I'd try to be low key about it, someone would certainly discover it, and be appalled by my decadence and lack of flexibility--after all, even older Carmelite nuns manage to sleep just fine with a hard mattress or they offer their pain to God--perhaps forgetting that the older nuns have had many years to get used to a hard mattress. The nuns would have hurt feelings, because it would seem as if I was saying they had failed in their hospitality--which, of course, would not be the case. There have been times when I've had a bad day, emotionally and/or physically, and I have reacted negatively to the teasing on Phatmass. I've been very embarrassed later, because the teasing really was good natured. But, I am all too human. (I figure one of my roles in life is to make other people feel better because I mess up so often.) Krissylou and others: If you ever feel truly pressured or teased too much, PM me, and we'll talk about it. Sometimes other people don't know when they've accidentally touched a "sensitive button." In the meantime, Krissylou, how do you look in brown? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Veronica Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 (edited) aww I of L you're awesome...Blessed be God for the virtue of Charity! [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtjquvH9eDQ&feature=PlayList&p=A3A6BE96234612F5&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=21[/media] Edited July 12, 2010 by Mary Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 [quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='11 July 2010 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1278900054' post='2141434'] To VS "newbies--The folks in VS tease us because they love us, and they truly want us to be happy. And, even if they tease us that they'll "get us" someday, what they really want is for us to be happy and fulfilled in whatever form of life God chooses for us. (Although, they make no apology for the fact that they think that part of that would be to be an active, orthodox Catholic, but they are usually respectful that God has his own ways of working, and his own timing, and too much pressure can backfire.) Krissylou--It DOES sound like you had a lovely visit to a beautiful church, and a wonderful service. I wish I could get around better, because there are many places that aren't THAT far away that I know I would enjoy visiting informally. I think people on VS know that even though I like to tease Vee8 about Carmelites, I have a true respect for them. But they also realize that I wouldn't last more than a short time on a visit to a Carmelite monastery--even on an "informal retreat." Maybe I'd unintentionally sigh when the nuns read from St. Therese or talked about her, or worse, I'd accidentally fall asleep (it happens). Plus, I have a face that can't hide my true feelings, so even if I said nothing, my face would give everything away. [/quote] I apologize if I've ever gotten out of hand teasing anyone on here or hurt their feelings in some way! I will try to use spoiler tags if I can type them in properly from my iPod, or if I can't I will at least write a warning before I include any kind of bloody pic in a post. I of L, or anyone for that matter, I think it would be a wonderful experience for you if you ever did have a chance to visit a cloister even for a couple of hours. For me it took a couple of days to start to settle in and get used to the different sense of time, talking through a grille to someone in an unusual outfit from 1555 etc. If they do have a guest house or room the bed would be a regular bed not the kind they sleep on. For older professed Sisters who need things for medical reasons they are happy to do their best to make adjustments for them. For example being permitted to remain sitting and not kneel in the choir. The new building of the Carmel I visited even has a small cell overlooking their choir so that any Sister who is too ill or weak can look through the glassless window down at the choir and participate that way for Mass and any of the Divine Office she is up for. They truly care for each other and for anyone who goes to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissylou Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='11 July 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1278900054' post='2141434'] In the meantime, Krissylou, how do you look in brown? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] [/quote] Well here is a quandary. I vastly prefer the Benedictines'/Cistercians' emphasis on hospitality and their less strict approach to enclosure that comes along with that. I'd make a much better Benedictine than Poor Clare or Carmelite. But I do vastly prefer brown to black. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sadder.gif[/img] Edited July 12, 2010 by krissylou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Brown is way cooler, that's for sure. Cause that's what important in choosing the rest of your life Just teasing, but when my sister first met the group of nuns she is currently a postulant with, her first reaction on seeing their habit was 'Lord, please don't call me here!' You see how well that worked out for her . Oh, and the website said the monastery was finished construction in 1898, so yes, that explains why St. Therese didn't 'make' the windows. She's in the garden though, no worries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='krissylou' date='12 July 2010 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1278965334' post='2141759'] Well here is a quandary. I vastly prefer the Benedictines'/Cistercians' emphasis on hospitality and their less strict approach to enclosure that comes along with that. I'd make a much better Benedictine than Poor Clare or Carmelite. But I do vastly prefer brown to black. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sadder.gif[/img] [/quote] Hmm, sounds like a Domincan to me. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] How do you feel about a white habit? The Dominican monsteries of cloistered nuns I've seen on the Internet seem to have variations in how they carry out enclosure, without breaking the rules of the Order, and generally seem to be not quite as strict as strict as Poor Clares or Carmelites. (But, as soon as I write that, someone will tell me about a Dominican community with very strict enclosure!). And, of course, Dominican Sisters are not enclosed. And, even within an Order, it seems there are variations on the strictness of enclosure, even if both Communities fully meet the enclosure rules. For example, the Ellisville Passionists are one of the most strictly enclosed Orders (at least the little I've hear about them--please correct me if I'm wrong). But, in contrast, the Whitesville, KY Passionists while still enclosed, for example, have a chapel that they share with visitors, with a low, running "stream" of water separating the Nuns and the rest of the congregation. And, I think the Whitesville Passionists conduct retreats (again tell me if I'm wrong), something I don't think the Ellisville Passionists do. From everything I've heard, both Communities are orthodox and fully compliant with the rules of their Order and their devotion to the Pope--they simply live it out in different ways. Obvious note: Although I used the Passionists as an example, because of their devotion to the Passion of Christ, I would have to keep a bottle of smelling salts in my pocket! Even without the black habit, I don't think find myself attracted at all to the Passionist charism, and I'm sure they would feel the same about me! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] I think that if I were a religious, I'd prefer that nebuous area called "semi-enclosed." I woudn't want to leave the enclosure for many hours a day for an active apostolate. But, being able to leave at times for various good reasons (besides going to the doctor) seems like a good balance to me. Edited July 12, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissylou Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 [quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='12 July 2010 - 04:28 PM' timestamp='1278966507' post='2141775'] Hmm, sounds like a Domincan to me. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] How do you feel about a white habit? The Dominican monsteries of cloistered nuns I've seen on the Internet seem to have variations in how they carry out enclosure, without breaking the rules of the Order, and generally seem to be not quite as strict as strict as Poor Clares or Carmelites. (But, as soon as I write that, someone will tell me about a Dominican community with very strict enclosure!). And, of course, Dominican Sisters are not enclosed. ... Obvious note: Although I used the Passionists as an example, because of their devotion to the Passion of Christ, I would have to keep a bottle of smelling salts in my pocket! Even without the black habit, I don't think find myself attracted at all to the Passionist charism, and I'm sure they would feel the same about me! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] I think that if I were a religious, I'd prefer that nebuous area called "semi-enclosed." I woudn't want to leave the enclosure for many hours a day for an active apostolate. But, being able to leave at times for various good reasons (besides going to the doctor) seems like a good balance to me. [/quote] White is just asking for spills and stains. And with Dominicans I'd always be a wee bit afraid of being burned at the stake ... [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/shock.gif[/img] (It's fascinating to me how the Dominicans and the Jesuits are the two main scholarly orders but they evolved so differently ... but that's another conversation) Actually, hmmm. Talking with an (Anglican) seminarian friend of mine about a year ago, he was saying that according to every ecclesial thinker ever, Catholics and (most) Protestants emphasize the Crucifixion so their center is Good Friday. Orthodox emphasize the Resurrection so their focus is Easter. And Anglicans emphasize the Incarnation so their focus is Christmas. A mutual Baptist friend found this beyond bizarre. "We don't even have a service on Good Friday!!!" But actually that was kind of the point. They don't NEED to have a service on Good Friday because EVERY DAY they focus on Good Friday. But once our seminarian friend put it that way, it didn't seem to fit with my Catholic experience. An Anglican-style emphasis on the Incarnation seems much more natural to me. I wonder if there are generational issues at play here -- coming of age in the post-Vatican II era may make a difference. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/think_head.gif[/img] But yes, it makes perfect sense to me that, good Anglican that you are, the Passionists wouldn't be your cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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