Tlm

[Apotheoun]

On the issue under consideration: it would be sad for anyone to feel uncomfortable at a liturgy that is approved of by the Church and that is celebrated according to the proper rubrics.

The only liturgies I have ever felt uncomfortable at are those that flaunt the norms set forth in the missal (e.g., clown masses, polka masses, etc.).

[Vincent Vega]

Does the Church teach that a Catholic receives sufficient grace from attending a Novus Ordo mass ?
Does the Church teach that the Eucharist, when confected in a valid and licit way in a Novus Ordo mass, is imperfect?
Does it fulfill one's Sunday obligation to attend a Novus Ordo Mass?
Can one receive the necessary sanctifying grace to achieve salvation by attending Novus Ordo masses?

If you have answered "yes" to all of these questions, then why is it a "pity" to be uncomfortable going to an Extraordinary Form mass?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='17 July 2010 - 07:46 PM' timestamp='1279410391' post='2144081']
On the issue under consideration: it would be sad for anyone to feel uncomfortable at a liturgy that is approved of by the Church and that is celebrated according to the proper rubrics.
[/quote]
But why? This is an honest question. Many people are creatures of habit. Change makes them uncomfortable. If they are comfortable in a NO mass, why should they force themselves to do something that they aren't comfortable with?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='17 July 2010 - 05:47 PM' timestamp='1279410438' post='2144082']
Does the Church teach that a Catholic receives sufficient grace from attending a Novus Ordo mass ?
Does the Church teach that the Eucharist, when confected in a valid and licit way in a Novus Ordo mass, is imperfect?
Does it fulfill one's Sunday obligation to attend a Novus Ordo Mass?
Can one receive the necessary sanctifying grace to achieve salvation by attending Novus Ordo masses?

If you have answered "yes" to all of these questions, then why is it a "pity" to be uncomfortable going to an Extraordinary Form mass?
[/quote]
A person should not feel uncomfortable at any approved liturgy, as long as the rubrics are fully followed.

The Holy Father certainly does not feel uncomfortable at a mass celebrated using the older missal, so it is to be pitied if other Catholics do feel that way.

[fides quarens intellectum]

Just for the record, i didn't say neither of us are comfortable attending an EF Mass; I said neither of us are comfortable attending an EF-only parish.

So sorry to cause a spat on this phorum.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='17 July 2010 - 05:49 PM' timestamp='1279410576' post='2144083']
But why? This is an honest question. Many people are creatures of habit. Change makes them uncomfortable. If they are comfortable in a NO mass, why should they force themselves to do something that they aren't comfortable with?
[/quote]
The mass as celebrated in the older Roman Missal - although codified after the Council of Trent - represents the liturgical rite of the Latin Church as it existed for nearly 1700 years. Why would anyone feel uncomfortable at a mass celebrated in that manner?

Edited July 17, 2010 by Apotheoun

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='17 July 2010 - 07:53 PM' timestamp='1279410798' post='2144086']
The mass as celebrated in the older Roman Missal - although codified after the Council of Trent - represents the liturgical rite of the Latin Church as it existed for nearly 1700 years. Why would anyone feel uncomfortable at a mass celebrated in that manner?
[/quote]
Because I'm not 1700 years old.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='17 July 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1279411127' post='2144087']
Because I'm not 1700 years old.
[/quote]

You're not 40 years old, either.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='17 July 2010 - 05:58 PM' timestamp='1279411127' post='2144087']
Because I'm not 1700 years old.
[/quote]
I am not 1700 years old either - I am old but not that old - but I must admit that I love praying the prayers of the Byzantine Rite, which are in large part more than 1600 years old.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Resurrexi]

I am not going to respond to USAirways anymore in this thread, because [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=105963&st=20"]. . .[/url].

If he would like to continue this conversation by means of private message, I would be happy to respond.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='17 July 2010 - 07:53 PM' timestamp='1279410798' post='2144086']
The mass as celebrated in the older Roman Missal - although codified after the Council of Trent - represents the liturgical rite of the Latin Church as it existed for nearly 1700 years. Why would anyone feel uncomfortable at a mass celebrated in that manner?
[/quote]
I'm not sure why they would. I wouldn't - I've never been to one and to say I don't understand much Latin would be an understatement; however, I'd like to go to one at some point. Certainly it's not sinful to not have the will to go to an EF mass, just as it wouldn't be a sin for someone with traditional leanings to not want to go to an NO mass.
So would the converse be the same - would it be a pity to be uncomfortable at a Novus Ordo mass (assuming that it was validly, licitly, and respectfully celebrated)?

[Apotheoun]

I am an Eastern Catholic, and so I do not normally attend Roman Catholic parishes, but I do find it sad that many Roman Catholics do not have any interest in experiencing all of the many different aspects of their own tradition, and by tradition I am speaking about things that are more than simply 40 years old.

A Roman Church that knows and affirms the whole of its liturgical, spiritual, and theological tradition, will be all the stronger as it moves forward in dialogue with the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and that will be good for everyone.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='17 July 2010 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1279411753' post='2144095']
I am an Eastern Catholic, and so I do not normally attend Roman Catholic parishes, but I do find it sad that many Roman Catholics do not have any interest in experiencing all of the many different aspects of their own tradition, and by tradition I am speaking about things that are more than simply 40 years old.

A Roman Church that knows and affirms the whole of its liturgical, spiritual, and theological tradition, will be all the stronger as it moves forward in dialogue with the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and that will be good for everyone.
[/quote]
All valid points.

[dominicansoul]

i find God in both the EF and NO Masses.

I have a preference for the EF, because, in my humble opinion, it is the highest form of worship to God we can possibly offer to Him

unfortunately, I cannot attend the EF as much as I would like. There is an EF Mass celebrated in the Diocese of austin at the Bishop's Cathedral.. but a 96 year old priest celebrates it, and when he's not around, no one else does. I don't know what's going to happen when he's gone...

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='17 July 2010 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1279411451' post='2144093']
So would the converse be the same - would it be a pity to be uncomfortable at a Novus Ordo mass (assuming that it was validly, licitly, and respectfully celebrated)?
[/quote]
I already answered this question in my earlier post, but I have no qualms in saying that it would be pitiable to feel uncomfortable in a liturgy celebrated according to the rubrics of the Pauline Missal. As I said in my earlier post the only times I have felt uncomfortable at a modern Roman Rite liturgy has been when it has flaunted the rubrics (e.g., clown masses, masses with puppets, Halloween masses where people dress up as witches and goblins, etc.).

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='17 July 2010 - 06:12 PM' timestamp='1279411933' post='2144097']
i find God in both the EF and NO Masses.[/quote]
I am sure He is present in both forms of the Roman Rite, but as a Byzantine Catholic I find Him most clearly when I am worshipping according to my own [i]sui juris[/i] Church's tradition, which I believe is quite normal . . . I mean why else would I have chosen to become a Byzantine Catholic.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='17 July 2010 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1279410191' post='2144077']
it was a nice quiet week on phatmass...
[/quote]

Seriously.

[Apotheoun]

I did not know that the point of Phatmass' existence was to be quiet.

[IcePrincessKRS]

I didn't know that the point of this thread was to quibble about eye rolling smilies and the word pity.

[Apotheoun]

And you have a right to your opinion on the nature of the thread, although I do not share it. Regardless, if the point of Phatmass' existence is quiet perhaps everyone should be suspended and we should close the forum now. A discussion forum without discussion is pointless.