Reverence, Silence & Respect In Parishes

[Sarah147]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' date='02 August 2010 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1280787685' post='2151119']
I think, culturally, it's hard for those sorts of reasons to resonate with me. I accept them, of course, and I do honestly try, most of the time, to present myself as nicely as possible for Holy Mass... but the concept just doesn't resonate very well with me, for better or for worse.
[/quote]


Maybe thinking on the fact that we are Temples of the Holy Spirit, and that we are God's, not our own. I also heard it said somewhere that we are like a Monstrance, holding Jesus within us. And Monstrances are all dazzled up with gold and such, so too we should modestly clothe ourselves.


"Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. It is like a monstrance holding God, the Blessed Trinity."
From a book on proper love of self: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=107015"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=107015[/url]

Edited August 2, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' date='02 August 2010 - 08:16 PM' timestamp='1280790991' post='2151148']
Maybe thinking on the fact that we are Temples of the Holy Spirit, and that we are God's, not our own. I also heard it said somewhere that we are like a Monstrance, holding Jesus within us. And Monstrances are all dazzled up with gold and such, so too we should modestly clothe ourselves.
[/quote]

Oh, I certainly agree-- modesty is super important.

Being "dressed up"... that's where I find it difficult at times. But again, like I said, I think it's mostly a cultural thing for me.

[FutureSister2009]

I have black jeans that are kind of dressy that I wear to Sunday Mass mostly during the winter. I've been told about some of the dresses I am gulty of wearing in the past so now I have a shrug that I wear over them.

[JenDeMaria]

I visit a parish other than my home parish during the week for evening Mass and when I first started attending back in September of last year I was the *only* person who knelt down and prayed an extended thanksgiving after the Mass ended. I even got the sense that I was annoying the sacristan for keeping him from locking up the chapel. Now, almost eight months later, there are 4 or 5 individuals who always stop and pray before leaving after each Mass and we are always allowed a good amount of time to do so. It's an amazing improvement.

[Totally Franciscan]

I have found it nearly impossible to pray at my parish church before OR after Mass. People just chat away, laugh, visit; one would think it was a protestant congregation having "fellowship". So fed up was I that I emailed the pastor (I really don't do well face to face when I am boiling angry) and told him of my consternation at not being able to pray and of the lack of reverence in the church congregation as a whole. I didn't hear from him, but the following Sunday, I noticed a tiny little box at the bottom of the last page of the bulletin saying, "Silence is appreciated for those trying to pray". That was it. Guess what? It did absolutely nothing. The visiting and conversations continue at a frantic pace. Makes me want to cry.

[JenDeMaria]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1280792260' post='2151158']
Oh, I certainly agree-- modesty is super important.

Being "dressed up"... that's where I find it difficult at times. But again, like I said, I think it's mostly a cultural thing for me.
[/quote]

I don't think it's important to "dress up". The Queen's servants do not wear ball gowns to serve their Queen, no matter what the occassion. They do, however, always appear tidy and as though their clothes were chosen deliberately for their function. In the same sense, nuns don't wear rags, though they do wear clothing that is pretty much the opposite of glamorous -- clothing that is functional, respectable and deliberate. Just a thought.

Personally, I was raised in a Southern Baptist household and when I first started attending my parish I could not fathom the casual way that Catholics dressed. It blew my mind that I had always attended a church where we dressed up (dare I say religiously) to sing praise songs in the equivalent of an auditorium and here I was attending a Church in which everyone around me believed that God Almighty was truly present, body, blood, soul and divinity and yet so many parishioners looked as though they were all set to go camping right after the closing hymn.

BUT there is a world of difference between the Protestant conception of worship and Catholic devotion in practice -- and it started to dawn on me that Catholics are much more casual about their appearance when visiting their parish because they visit their parish a whole heck of a lot more often. The idea of visiting church in the middle of the day just to say "Hi" to Jesus would completely baffle a Baptist. Yet that fluidity between normal, daily life and the devotional life of church makes it easier to be more casual with Our Lord -- and while He is the Divine Wooer of our hearts, our King and our Final Judge (and I would definitely dress up for a date, a royal visit or a day at court), He is also our brother, intercessor and closest confidante and that interplay between unfathomable grandeur and intimate closeness is part of the essential reality of the Faith.

When I began working with a lady with schizophrenia who wanted to know more about the Catholic faith, though, and I began to learn about her struggles just getting herself together to leave the house I found myself resolving that I would never judge anyone for the way they dress to go to church again. I found myself saying things like "Oh, don't worry how you look! It's dark inside and we'll just sit in the back. No problem!" It made me realize that there were things I was saying I wanted for Jesus that were really more about me and my aesthetic preferrences.

But then again, there is that whole "preaching without words" element to our devotional practices -- and I do think it's valid to ask if an atheist saw you visiting your parish, would he be convinced that you believe you are visiting the Maker of Heaven and Earth?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JenDeMaria' timestamp='1303872762' post='2233780']
But then again, there is that whole "preaching without words" element to our devotional practices -- and I do think it's valid to ask if an atheist saw you visiting your parish, would he be convinced that you believe you are visiting the Maker of Heaven and Earth?
[/quote]

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='JenDeMaria' timestamp='1303872762' post='2233780']
But then again, there is that whole "preaching without words" element to our devotional practices -- and I do think it's valid to ask if an atheist saw you visiting your parish, would he be convinced that you believe you are visiting the Maker of Heaven and Earth?
[/quote]

Definitely a good point!

I suppose I find it difficult (although I'm much without excuse). I am [i]so[/i] uncomfortable in dress up clothes. I hate doing it for much of anything-- from a nice dinner to a party to Mass. And perhaps it's silly, but I actually have a hard time praying when I'm dressed up.

Eh. There's not much to say. Except I can't wait for a habit, if not for this very reason!

[teresitacarmel]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1303876509' post='2233804']
Definitely a good point!

I suppose I find it difficult (although I'm much without excuse). I am [i]so[/i] uncomfortable in dress up clothes. I hate doing it for much of anything-- from a nice dinner to a party to Mass. And perhaps it's silly, but I actually have a hard time praying when I'm dressed up.

Eh. There's not much to say. Except I can't wait for a habit, if not for this very reason!
[/quote]

I feel uncomfortable getting all dressed up too. It makes me stressed out and distracted, like I have to make sure everything is in place. And high heels just give me blisters, haha. Neat and tidy is usually what I go for, nothing too fancy. I don't think it's silly, cuz I have a hard time praying when I'm dressed up too....it's like your mind keeps wandering off into thoughts about your appearance.

As for silence, I was soooo annoyed just last week at the Good Friday service. The two women next to me were chatting like they were having afternoon tea! They kept talking about buying tickets for some concert or whatever. Ugh. I was trying soooo hard to offer it up, lol! It took a lot of effort to not blow up, haha.....

[JessicaKoch]

I am guilty of wearing jeans to Mass also. usally I goto our dogpound before hand and help out so thats the reason for the jeans.
However I have been wearing my long skirts and modest tops.

In terms of people chatting it is very upsetting that people have forgotten where they are. I try so hard to ignor them.

[krissylou]

This is why a coffee hour in the parish hall (or wherever is appropriate) is so important.

Because when people are chatting and visiting -- that really is important for the life of the parish. It really is. This is how we get bound together in a community.

"But that isn't the place for it!" many of you will say.

Fine. No problem.

But then we need to be deliberate about creating those other spaces where it IS appropriate.

I visit different churches a lot. I have NEVER seen a not-Catholic church that didn't regularly have coffee hour in between services, every week. This is absolutely routine and expected part of life as a church community.

From what I've seen, this is rare indeed for Catholic churches.

When I was a kid, at our parish, we had something like that maybe a few times a year.

My aunt's parish put a real emphasis on doing such things to create community -- they did it once a month. And that was considered extraordinary!

Yes yes yes -- reverence and silence and being aware of the transcendence of God is critically important! But important things are happening when people are chatting and visiting too and very often it seems that Catholic churches do a bad job of making space for that. And so it is unsurprising that it ends up spilling over into places where it doesn't belong.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1303934276' post='2233954']
This is why a coffee hour in the parish hall (or wherever is appropriate) is so important.

Because when people are chatting and visiting -- that really is important for the life of the parish. It really is. This is how we get bound together in a community.

"But that isn't the place for it!" many of you will say.

Fine. No problem.

But then we need to be deliberate about creating those other spaces where it IS appropriate.

I visit different churches a lot. I have NEVER seen a not-Catholic church that didn't regularly have coffee hour in between services, every week. This is absolutely routine and expected part of life as a church community.

From what I've seen, this is rare indeed for Catholic churches.

When I was a kid, at our parish, we had something like that maybe a few times a year.

My aunt's parish put a real emphasis on doing such things to create community -- they did it once a month. And that was considered extraordinary!

Yes yes yes -- reverence and silence and being aware of the transcendence of God is critically important! But important things are happening when people are chatting and visiting too and very often it seems that Catholic churches do a bad job of making space for that. And so it is unsurprising that it ends up spilling over into places where it doesn't belong.
[/quote]

My current parish has a coffee and donuts get-together in the parish hall after each Mass in the morning. So does my old parish.

[krissylou]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1303935787' post='2233962']
My current parish has a coffee and donuts get-together in the parish hall after each Mass in the morning. So does my old parish.
[/quote]


Great! Three cheers for them!



In the parishes I've seen, which have been a lot over the years (I am an old fluffy air extraction), over a few different states, this is unusual.

Maybe I've just been really unlucky and hitting the wrong ones.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='Totally Franciscan' timestamp='1303870860' post='2233773']
I have found it nearly impossible to pray at my parish church before OR after Mass. People just chat away, laugh, visit; one would think it was a protestant congregation having "fellowship". So fed up was I that I emailed the pastor (I really don't do well face to face when I am boiling angry) and told him of my consternation at not being able to pray and of the lack of reverence in the church congregation as a whole. I didn't hear from him, but the following Sunday, I noticed a tiny little box at the bottom of the last page of the bulletin saying, "Silence is appreciated for those trying to pray". That was it. Guess what? It did absolutely nothing. The visiting and conversations continue at a frantic pace. Makes me want to cry.
[/quote]

Why can't Priests just vocally announce to everyone to exit the main Chapel if they are going to chat? I agree that places should offer a separate place to socialize, as when/where else do parishioners get to better know each other?

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1303941176' post='2234007']
Great! Three cheers for them!



In the parishes I've seen, which have been a lot over the years (I am an old fluffy air extraction), over a few different states, this is unusual.

Maybe I've just been really unlucky and hitting the wrong ones.
[/quote]

I don't think I've ever seen a Church in my diocese not have some sort of socializing event after the Mass. Our parish is all about welcoming and the new pastor wants people to think of their Church as their home. He is always emphasizing "togetherness" and participation in Church activities.

Edited April 27, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae

[InPersonaChriste]

My parish has frequently addressed the matters of modesty. A lot of people are snobby about it, but the Priest is really insightful. Mind you.. Now their are girls coming to mass dressing badly on purpose just to piss him off. It never works, but if you are dressed immodestly and come up for communion he will not give it to you because he has to stare down your shirt (we all take communion on the tongue kneeling) so he just passes over the people who have dressed immodestly. I think it is fine because in doing so he is avoiding a sin against chastity for him, and the woman is then aware of a temptation she has created for other men.

Its never happened to me!

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1303952426' post='2234084']
My parish has frequently addressed the matters of modesty. A lot of people are snobby about it, but the Priest is really insightful. Mind you..[b] Now their are girls coming to mass dressing badly on purpose just to piss him off.[/b] It never works, but if you are dressed immodestly and come up for communion he will not give it to you because he has to stare down your shirt (we all take communion on the tongue kneeling) so he just passes over the people who have dressed immodestly. I think it is fine because in doing so he is avoiding a sin against chastity for him, and the woman is then aware of a temptation she has created for other men.

Its never happened to me!
[/quote]

That really is pathetic. So many young girls have loss the sense of modesty because of our society telling them that they have to dress provocatively to attract men. I applaud the priest for standing up for chastity and purity. I'm sure he will cause others to find a different Church (one where they don't hear that all the time), but it really is sad how society is nowadays. No one has any respect for themselves or anyone else.

[JessicaKoch]

Our parish also has coffee hour after Mass.
We had one pastor that wouldn't walk out of the church till the last line in the ending song. I loved it! It forced people to stay until he left.

[truthfinder]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1303942142' post='2234011']
Why can't Priests just vocally announce to everyone to exit the main Chapel if they are going to chat? I agree that places should offer a separate place to socialize, as when/where else do parishioners get to better know each other?
[/quote]


I had a priest once dedicate a good portion of his homily to silence in church, especially after Mass - and to stay and give a thanksgiving. So some people literally ran out after Mass because they couldn't talk. Next Mass, same priest, same people, after Mass, they are all talking in the Church again. Poor priest was rather defeated looking. I find the old people are usually the worst, like they feel they are entitled to talk due to their age, and sometimes their cultural catholic identity. arrrghh end of rant

[humbleheart]

Our parish priest has erected a sign written from Jesus' perspective - "If you would like to chat in here, please chat only to Me!" - but it gets ignored. I try so hard to control my anger when the church is abuzz with conversation right after Mass, but I can't help feeling that people are being selfish - some of us want to pray, and they're talking in the very place where we should be able to pray quietly.