More Debate On The Habit

[DameAgnes]

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2010/09/cheating-the-habit-of-being

[krissylou]

[quote name='DameAgnes' timestamp='1285705590' post='2176523']
[url="http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2010/09/cheating-the-habit-of-being"]http://www.firstthin...-habit-of-being[/url]
[/quote]

I have a question.

When did "Secular Institutes" come into being? My impression is that they're a relatively new creature.

Somebody posted a vocations video about secular institutes sometime back (majorly descriptive of me, I know) -- the young woman involved (no distinctive clothing) was in a secular institute that lived in community and had regular times of prayer and all that so her lifestyle was in many ways similar to a religious Sister. She said that the difference was that a Sister was a visible sign of a life set apart and wholly consecrated to God. The vocation to a secular institute is not about being set apart but by engaging with the world and being a part of the world, so infusing it with holiness. And the world needs both forms.

We all know that many religious congregations no longer use a habit, work in a wide variety of ministries, may or may not live in community. When I hear them talk about why their community made those choices, they sound very very similar to that woman talking about the vocation to a secular institute.

Maybe, just maybe, some of these congregations have reformed so that they are essentially secular institutes rather than institutes of consecrated life (forgive me if I'm getting the vocab slightly wrong). That isn't a bad thing -- it sounds like a beautiful vocation -- just a different form of devoting yourself to God. Others by maintaining a habit and placing more emphasis on common apostolates witness in a different way.

And just maybe, as there is a call to return to the distinctive charisms, some of these communities fit more naturally in a secular institute category, but well that didn't exist until relatively recently.

And maybe it's not a question of being better or worse, but that the world needs both forms.

Maybe.

[krissylou]

And MAYBE, if we could understand these as distinct roles, and the world needs both of them, MAYBE a bit of this debate could be defused and it could be a bit less divisive.

I think it was Sister Marie (forgive me if my memory is getting jumbled) who was saying that she wears a modified habit and has found at gatherings of many different Sisters from different congregations that neither the sans-habit Sisters nor the full traditional-habit Sisters will talk to her.

REGARDLESS of the appropriate interpretation of various church documents and directives, that situation is amazingly sad. And clearly there is plenty of fault on all sides, on the conservatives and liberals and undoubtedly there are some "middle-of-the-road"ers who get proud and arrogant about having found THE RIGHT BALANCE -- that's by no means a blanket condemnation of the middle-of-the-roaders but well I doubt they're exempt from the human condition either.

That hostility -- among people who have consecrated themselves to God! -- that seems to me to be so much sadder than ANYTHING that could happen with regard to clothing.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

Just my 2 cents:

The idea that a religious sister or brother is 'better' than another [i]because[/i] they wear a habit is pure bunk. It seems as though many go on and on about the importance of a religious habit, and that becomes the focus, not the reason these men and women are joining religious life (which is, of course, [b]because Christ called them, and they answered[/b]).

Of course, I know that [i]I[/i] could never be part of a religious order that doesn't wear a habit. But that's just me. I grew up in Catholic school and rather like the uniform and simplicity. That does not mean that the two Sisters of Charity I know and the Sister of Saint Joseph are not as holy as habited religious sisters and nuns.

ALL of us are here to serve God. I personally think God would want us to serve Him as He wills, habited, non-habit, or naked. Elijah preached naked. And John the Baptist wore an animal skin. It doesn't matter what one wears, but one's soul is like. The outside shouldn't matter as much as it does to so many. We all witness to Christ in different ways.

Dieu vous benisse!

[vee]

it wasnt until I personally met a non habited Sister with a very holy attitude and a habited Sister with a um er a few shall we say questionable beliefs that I got it into my thick skull that habit doesnt always equal holiness and no habit equals less holy. Further comment is clouded by the fact that cherry chocolate ice cream is GOOD! droool....

[krissylou]

99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time, I would say that ministering naked is a poor choice.

That may be just me.

(But I doubt it.)

[vee]

What if someone ministers at, and is a member of, a nudist colony though? Would that be the .1% or do they even have ministers? Maybe the .1% is for people who minister in nice warm remote tropical places to native peoples who wear basically a fig leaf so to fit in they also wear a leaf? I think a habit should be more than a fig leaf or leafs although I do agree I should be a nun in a tropical place. Uh what was the debate again?

[Cherie]

I remember the story of a nun who was sitting on a bus when a man came to sit beside her, since there weren't any other seats. Seeing that she was a religious since she was clothed in the habit, he immediately began speaking about how he had fallen away from the Church, etc. They had a very deep spiritual conversation, which led to the man's "re-version" to the Catholic faith. This particular Sister is in a community that no longer wears the habit, and she is glad that they don't anymore, but she was willing to admit that if she weren't wearing the habit on that bus, his conversion probably never would have taken place. I thought it was interesting to note that.

Of course, as they say, "The habit doesn't make the monk." And yes, wearing a habit could lead to an amount of spiritual pride. Then again, just about [i]anything[/i] can be abused and lead us to sin. Personally, I think the spiritual benefits of wearing a habit FAR outweigh any benefit of not wearing one.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1285722208' post='2176607']
I remember the story of a nun who was sitting on a bus when a man came to sit beside her, since there weren't any other seats. Seeing that she was a religious since she was clothed in the habit, he immediately began speaking about how he had fallen away from the Church, etc. They had a very deep spiritual conversation, which led to the man's "re-version" to the Catholic faith. This particular Sister is in a community that no longer wears the habit, and she is glad that they don't anymore, but she was willing to admit that if she weren't wearing the habit on that bus, his conversion probably never would have taken place. I thought it was interesting to note that.

Of course, as they say, "The habit doesn't make the monk." And yes, wearing a habit could lead to an amount of spiritual pride. Then again, just about [i]anything[/i] can be abused and lead us to sin. [b]Personally, I think the spiritual benefits of wearing a habit FAR outweigh any benefit of not wearing one.[/b]
[/quote]

This is my opinion as well.

I remember hearing a story about a priest and his clerics. He was out in public one day, wearing his clerics, when a poor man approached him and kissed his hands. The priest was taken a back and said to the man, "You don't have to do that, I'm just an ordinary man-- like you." The poor man looked at him with dismay and said, "Father, I did that not as a sign of respect for you, but as a sign of respect for your anointed hands-- your priesthood. Don't give yourself so much credit."

Part of humility on behalf of those consecrated God comes from allowing others to praise God's work in them. Priests and religious become outward signs of God's grace and presence in the world. It evokes a desire among the faithful to honor that, to do some good deed for God. Whatever is given to them really isn't given to their own person, but it is God's. As a religious, everything she is belongs to God and everything that someone does for her is truly done for Jesus.

[Cherie]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1285723030' post='2176611'] The poor man looked at him with dismay and said, "Father, I did that not as a sign of respect for you, but as a sign of respect for your anointed hands-- your priesthood. Don't give yourself so much credit."

[/quote]

I love it!

It's very true - the priest or Sister is representing something far more important than themselves. That is something I admire from the community I was a member of - they had a great respect for the habit, and we knew that it wasn't because of ourselves, but because of our [i]consecration.[/i] We were representing the Church and God, so any honor shown us because of our habit went right back to the honor and glory of God. It was actually very humbling to hear what people would say seeing us in our habit, especially children. I remember a young child at a zoo pointing at me and saying to her mother, "Mommy it's Mary! It's Mary! Does she have the baby Jesus?" Every time I would hear something like that, it would make me realize that I'm representing the Church, so my behavior must be exactly what I'd want our beloved Church to show forth to others--most especially [i]charity.[/i]

[Ephrem Augustine]

I was at banquet for a commemoration of an historical event. I was in habit, to represent the order.

anyways
some time during the conversation, a man, who had already been speaking very ignorantly (although it seemed his ignorance with innocent and well intentioned, not snobbish), said something to the effect...
"Yeah at the Vatican Council the Church told all the nuns to get rid of their habits."
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/pinch.gif[/img]

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' timestamp='1285782966' post='2176775']
I was at banquet for a commemoration of an historical event. I was in habit, to represent the order.

anyways
some time during the conversation, a man, who had already been speaking very ignorantly (although it seemed his ignorance with innocent and well intentioned, not snobbish), said something to the effect...
"Yeah at the Vatican Council the Church told all the nuns to get rid of their habits."
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/pinch.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Obviously he repeated hearsay vs. what the documents actually said.

[Micah]

Our understanding of the habit has no doubt developed over time, but initially the habit was a simple rejection of excess wealth or clothing. I was reading about St. Paulina yesterday, and St. Jerome argued with her that her extreme modesty might bring on vanity or envy in her, but she responded that if her rejection of wealth brings on a spiritual conflict, then she is fighting the good fight. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/clap2.gif[/img]

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1285762490' post='2176686']
I love it!

It's very true - the priest or Sister is representing something far more important than themselves. That is something I admire from the community I was a member of - they had a great respect for the habit, and we knew that it wasn't because of ourselves, but because of our [i]consecration.[/i] We were representing the Church and God, so any honor shown us because of our habit went right back to the honor and glory of God. It was actually very humbling to hear what people would say seeing us in our habit, especially children. I remember a young child at a zoo pointing at me and saying to her mother, "Mommy it's Mary! It's Mary! Does she have the baby Jesus?" Every time I would hear something like that, it would make me realize that I'm representing the Church, so my behavior must be exactly what I'd want our beloved Church to show forth to others--most especially [i]charity.[/i]
[/quote]


When I was very, very young, I once almost embarrased by parents to death. After seeing a group of Amish women, I cried (and pointed) "Look, Mommy! Pilgrims!"

Thankfully that never happened with rleigious sisters.

[Cherie]

[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1285841528' post='2176898']
When I was very, very young, I once almost embarrased by parents to death. After seeing a group of Amish women, I cried (and pointed) "Look, Mommy! Pilgrims!"

Thankfully that never happened with rleigious sisters.
[/quote]

Another Sister encountered a Southern African American man and his young son at the grocery store. The son pointed to the Sister and asked his father in a very loud voice, "Dad, what's that?" When his father ignored him, he asked again loudly, "Dad, what's that?!" After being ignored again, the son cried out in desperation, "DADDY, WHAT'S THAT?!" The father turned to his son and said in a very thick Alabama accent, "I don't know, son, but I know it's good!"

Oh goodness, there are so many more stories! lol I could create a thread just for them!