Protocol-Ing

[add]

With the onset of woman's liberation, that is so prevalent in today's society are the old morays about marriage relevant

Will you keep tradition?

scary stuff I.E. [url="http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/10/15/doogie-howser-is-a-daddy-neil-patrick-harris-welcomes-twins/"](im-mature content) link[/url]

Edited October 21, 2010 by apparently

[MissScripture]

I take it women are not supposed to respond to the poll?

[MichaelFilo]

Why are they so important?

[Winchester]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1287677911' post='2181324']
...morays...
[/quote]
[img]http://www.underwatertimes.com/news2/moray_eel_big.jpg[/img]
[img]http://directsealife.com/shop/images/Moray%20&%20Eels.jpg[/img]

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' timestamp='1287680499' post='2181354']
Why are they (women) so important?
[/quote]

Well, under Church law you need a woman (as well as a man) in order to get married. The woman is a required part of the sacrament. I'd say that makes women pretty darn important if you're talking about issues related to Catholic weddings and marriage.

Note: I may have this wrong, but moray eels, while colorful, are not a requirement for the sacrament of marriage in the Catholic church. However, customs may be different in other countries, and, for all I know, moray eels may well be an integral part of the marriage ceremony in some places, even if not an absolute requirement for the sacrament.

[MichaelFilo]

Oh not women, hahaha. Why are the customs important. Women are important. When they gave me my interview to become a seminarian they asked me "So, Michael, where do you stand with women?" I said, "I guess they are people to." I didn't get what they meant, which is, am I some sort of womanizer. But you know, yes, they are important.

I just meant the customs.

[Maggyie]

Catholic women aren't given away by their fathers (or anyone else) at the wedding. They're not supposed to be, anyway (although I know some priests who mess with the liturgy and insert this line, grrrr). This is an Anglican tradition that rose out of a period of time when women were chattal and a marriage meant a transfer of property (the woman). In Catholic tradition, the bride and groom give the sacrament to each other so the parents do not come into it.

I suppose to be consistent the same principle would have to apply to asking the father for his daughter's hand in marriage... dad's not the one who decides if there's a sacrament, the bride and groom do. His opinion is meaningless as far as the Church is concerned. However I admit that I hope my guy asks my dad for my hand... it's kind of a romantic thing to do...

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1287685035' post='2181386']
Catholic women aren't given away by their fathers (or anyone else) at the wedding. They're not supposed to be, anyway (although I know some priests who mess with the liturgy and insert this line, grrrr). This is an Anglican tradition that rose out of a period of time when women were chattal and a marriage meant a transfer of property (the woman). In Catholic tradition, the bride and groom give the sacrament to each other so the parents do not come into it.

I suppose to be consistent the same principle would have to apply to asking the father for his daughter's hand in marriage... dad's not the one who decides if there's a sacrament, the bride and groom do. His opinion is meaningless as far as the Church is concerned. However I admit that I hope my guy asks my dad for my hand... it's kind of a romantic thing to do...
[/quote]
I always viewed the asking as a sign of respect --I mean, up to that point, my daddy, as head of the house was responsible for me in some sense, and wants what is best for me. While I COULD still get married without his approval, it was a sign of my husband's respect for my father's position in my life to ask him.

On a more humerous note, my hubby took my dad out to lunch to ask him, and my dad (who of course knew what was coming) was prepared with a question: "What would it take for you to leave and never contact my daughter again?" My hubby, without batting an eye, responded, "A hundred dollars." My dad laughed and told him yes. He's sooo lucky my dad has a sense of humor!

[Winchester]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1287684288' post='2181378']

Note: I may have this wrong, but moray eels, while colorful, are not a requirement for the sacrament of marriage in the Catholic church. However, customs may be different in other countries, and, for all I know, moray eels may well be an integral part of the marriage ceremony in some places, even if not an absolute requirement for the sacrament.
[/quote]
OP brought up morays.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1287702035' post='2181450']
OP brought up morays.
[/quote]

I know that. I was attempting to make a joke based off your joke pictures. Oh well.

[Winchester]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1287702953' post='2181454']
I know that. I was attempting to make a joke based off your joke pictures. Oh well.
[/quote]
I got that. Now you've broken character.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1287709589' post='2181482']
I got that. Now you've broken character.
[/quote]

Well, some people would say I was a broken character anyway.

BTW--I thought your eel pictures were more interesting than the thread. I liked them.

[Winchester]

I pretty much bring the awesome.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1287685035' post='2181386']
Catholic women aren't given away by their fathers (or anyone else) at the wedding. They're not supposed to be, anyway (although I know some priests who mess with the liturgy and insert this line, grrrr). This is an Anglican tradition that rose out of a period of time when women were chattal and a marriage meant a transfer of property (the woman). In Catholic tradition, the bride and groom give the sacrament to each other so the parents do not come into it.

I suppose to be consistent the same principle would have to apply to asking the father for his daughter's hand in marriage... dad's not the one who decides if there's a sacrament, the bride and groom do. His opinion is meaningless as far as the Church is concerned. However I admit that I hope my guy asks my dad for my hand... it's kind of a romantic thing to do...
[/quote]

When I got married, my ex definitely didn't ask my father, but I'd been living away from home and fully supporting myself for awhile at that point, so I think it would have seemed silly. Plus, my father is VERY un-traditional and probably would have been offended or something.

I didn't want to have my father walk me down the aisle. But, it turned out that my VERY un-traditional father, for whatever reason, had always wanted to walk me down the aisle. Since my father had made no other requests with regard to the wedding, and because I was kind of touched by this, my father did walk me down the aisle.

But, at least at the time I got married, asking who was giving the bride away WAS part of the Catholic wedding service, because I remember consciously asking the priest to take those words out of the wedding service. So, I was walked down the aisle by my father, but no one "gave me away."

Interesting factoid only vaguely related to this: In Sweden, apparently the custom is for the bride and groom to walk down the aisle together, as a way for both of them to show consent to the wedding. However, when the Crown Princess of Sweden got married last summer, she wanted her father (the King) to walk her down the aisle. So, they compromised. The King walked his daughter halfway down the aisle, where the bridegroom was waiting, and then the couple walked the rest of the way together. And the King didn't "give his daughter away."

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1287711373' post='2181487']
I pretty much bring the awesome.
[/quote]

Definitely in character for you. I like breaking character once in awhile. Keeps 'em guessing.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1287677911' post='2181324']
With the onset of woman's liberation, that is so prevalent in today's society are the old morays about marriage relevant

Will you keep tradition?

scary stuff I.E. [url="http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/10/15/doogie-howser-is-a-daddy-neil-patrick-harris-welcomes-twins/"](im-mature content) link[/url]
[/quote]
Neither of these are part of catholic tradition, merely cultural traditions.

[CatherineM]

When my husband proposed, I told him I was a traditional southern woman, and if he didn't do it proper on one knee, I'd make him call one of my red-neck brothers and ask their permission. I've never seen him move so fast, before or since. He looked like a football lineman trying to ballet dance.

[add]

pleasant memories they are

[tinytherese]

What if the bride has a really awful relationship with her dad, like he's been abusive to her? Could her godfather, uncle, or brother give her away then?

[MissScripture]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1287775494' post='2181611']
What if the bride has a really awful relationship with her dad, like he's been abusive to her? Could her godfather, uncle, or brother give her away then?
[/quote]
Since it isn't a church thing, it really doesn't matter in the eyes of the church. It is really up to you, if you even want anyone to walk you down the aisle. I have seen where the bride and groom have walked down the aisle, together.