Never-Ending List Of Requirements For Salvation

[Winchester]

[quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1288030947' post='2182407']
[s]It is not possible that I am your "brother" because of the simple reason that I reject papal claims and the Catholic Church has withdrawn my right by her "divine fiat" and consigned me to hell. Just in case you missed it, see my new post, "The issue of infallibility" ---for confirming this truth, which you are seemingly unaware of.[/s]
[/quote]
Dismissed.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1288029261' post='2182385']
Could you point to even just one verse in the Bible that says that it is to be taken as the sole authority on Christianity?
[/quote]

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1288030947' post='2182407']
It is not possible that I am your "brother" because of the simple reason that I reject papal claims and the Catholic Church has withdrawn my right by her "divine fiat" and consigned me to hell. Just in case you missed it, see my new post, "The issue of infallibility" ---for confirming this truth, which you are seemingly unaware of.
[/quote]

Your hate for the Church is astounding. It is a shame that you refuse to see her for who she is and instead choose to hate the image which others have painted of her and which you have internalized.

God Bless, brother. Peace and Prayers.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' timestamp='1288033609' post='2182432']
Your hate for the Church is astounding. It is a shame that you refuse to see her for who she is and instead choose to hate the image which others have painted of her and which you have internalized.
Now use your anger to strike me down!
[img]http://www.slschofield.com/star_wars/emperor_palpatine.jpg[/img]

God Bless, brother. Peace and Prayers.
[/quote]

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

Oh Winchester, you are only seeing part of the truth. Don't you know that the courtyard in front of the Vatican is really a cover for the Death Star ray of destruction?
[img]http://www.vaticanbank.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/vatican-bank.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/death-star-7.jpg[/img]

[Winchester]

Was that supposed to be a private message?

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1288030947' post='2182407']
It is not possible that I am your "brother" because of the simple reason that I reject papal claims and the Catholic Church has withdrawn my right by her "divine fiat" and consigned me to hell. Just in case you missed it, see my new post, "The issue of infallibility" ---for confirming this truth, which you are seemingly unaware of.
[/quote]



Okay, then.

I respectfully withdraw from conversation, as it seems that you're not looking for conversation in the first place. I wish you well. Prayers.

And so you are not mistaken in your understanding of the Church, She does not consign you, or any one else, to Hell.

[Maggyie]

The thing you've got to understand about the supposedly endless list of requirements for salvation is this: Catholicism is NOT a legalistic approach to Christianity. It is not a legal proceeding where a guilty party does a one-time recitation of the Sinner's Prayer (or any other collection of words) and gets a get-out-of-jail-free card. It is not about a spiritual justice system where a crime needs to be punished and Jesus is going to do the time for those who call on His name. In the Catholic Church, salvation comes down to the quality of your relationship with Jesus Christ. For us, it's ALL about relationship and walking the walk.

Just because you fulfill the "legal" requirements for salvation - believing in Jesus and confessing Him - is NOT enough to be saved. Someone who believes that Jesus is their Lord and Savior but who does not cultivate a life-giving, close relationship with Him is just as lost as an unbeliever. Scripture is very clear about this.

[holly.o]

One word for you: [i]mercy[/i].









Actually two words, to make it more clear: [b]Divine Mercy[/b].








Jesus really has called us to be perfect - He explicitly says this in the Gospel. We do this by loving Him, by keeping His commandments (something else He says expressly in the Gospel). But we have recourse to His infinite mercy if we fail.

[Starets]

[quote name='holly.o' timestamp='1288050889' post='2182520']
(snip)


Jesus really has called us to be perfect - He explicitly says this in the Gospel. We do this by loving Him, by keeping His commandments (something else He says expressly in the Gospel). But we have recourse to His infinite mercy if we fail.


[/quote]


Stormstopper, to follow up on what Holly said above, in Leviticus, we see time after time that the various sacrifices are to be "without blemish", and before tehy can be declared "without blemish", they first have to actually BE without blemish. And what does St. Paul say in Ephesians? that we are to be living sacrifices, "without blemish". That is one of the reasons why the ":easy bvelievism" of fundamentalism is so dangerous. Fundamentalism is to Catholicism what a kayak is to an ocean liner: both will get you across the ocean safely, but the ocean liner is the more appropriate vessel.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Staretz

[Guest Shadyrest]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1288029261' post='2182385']
Could you point to even just one verse in the Bible that says that it is to be taken as the sole authority on Christianity?
[/quote]


Try reading all 176 verses of Ps 119, and then try to duplicate that many times the highest esteem is found for God's word [i]there, [/i]with any other authority. There virtually is no comparison.

And you mean to tell me that you wish to entrust your soul to all those never-ending list of requirements found absolutely [u]no where[/u] in Scripture, to that of [i]tradition?[/i]
You have fallen smack dab into the condemnation Jesus threw at the Jews. By their tradition, they were nullifying the word of God. Join the club.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Shadyrest

[Winchester]

USairways,

He must like you. You got told to read the psalms. I was told to kill myself.

[CatherineM]

So what happened to all the people who died in the first 400 years of the Church before the bible was codified? Did they go to Hell because they didn't have Scripture, and had to rely on Tradition handed down from the Apostles alone?

[Guest Shadyrest]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1288047186' post='2182505']
The thing you've got to understand about the supposedly endless list of requirements for salvation is this: Catholicism is NOT a legalistic approach to Christianity. It is not a legal proceeding where a guilty party does a one-time recitation of the Sinner's Prayer (or any other collection of words) and gets a get-out-of-jail-free card. It is not about a spiritual justice system where a crime needs to be punished and Jesus is going to do the time for those who call on His name. In the Catholic Church, salvation comes down to the quality of your relationship with Jesus Christ. For us, it's ALL about relationship and walking the walk.

[/quote]



First of all, I never said or implied that all Catholics had to do was recite a prayer. I was quite clear that it was nothing singular, but a big fat[b] list[/b] of requirements, which do definitely fall into the category of [i]legaleeze, and they are anti-christian to the core, resulting in a works salvation.[/i]
[i]
[/i]
Second, while I do not deny for a moment the "relationship" aspect, you have completely eliminated the other half of the equation, which in my point 3, proves you are believing a false gospel.
[i]
[/i]
[i]Third, your denial that the Bible does not convey a "spiritual justice system where Jesus does the time for those who call on His name", is precisely what we find in Scripture. Very briefly, He was our [u]Substitute[/u] --(which even the catechism affirms in #603) and the iniquity of us all was laid on Him, by imputation (Isa 53; a legal term, which makes it spiritual justice), where we are not now "condemned" (Roman 8:1; a legal term), but are now "set free" (read that as, "out of jail, per Luke 4:18) because since our sins are compared to a debt (Matt 6:12) Christ has "paid" the penalty for them (a legal term...."It is finished" in the Greek is "tetelestai", written on bills of sale circa AD 30 which translates, "paid in full"), and was raised for our "justification" (Rms 4:25; a legal term). He also became our "Surety" (Heb 7:22; a legal term, where the Surety is the One who will pay the debt for those who can't pay!). [/i]

[Guest Shadyrest]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1288056406' post='2182557']
So what happened to all the people who died in the first 400 years of the Church before the bible was codified? Did they go to Hell because they didn't have Scripture, and had to rely on Tradition handed down from the Apostles alone?
[/quote]


You may as well have asked, how were the O.T. saints saved before the coming of Christ?
God made a way and obviously takes into consideration the time people are living in. The O.T. saints were saved by their offering of sacrifices that prefigured the coming of Christ. This was their pledge of faith in the promise of God that He would provide a sacrifice that---opposed to animal sacrifices-- would, [i]in reality, [/i] take away their sins.

Second, why should I believe [u]you[/u] that the Bible was "codified" circa 400? The New Catholic Encyclopedia says that for the Catholic Church, that didn't happen until the time of Trent!
Anyway, it should go without saying that people were saved with the amount of knowledge that they were given. [i]The word of God does not necessarily have to be in written form for a person to become saved. We clearly read that He has ordained "the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe" [/i](1 Cor 1:21).

If you are then going to argue that we must then believe the tradition that to be in subjection to the Pope is necessary for salvation, we would deny that because Jesus subjected all tradition to the litmus test of Scripture, and the very idea that we need to bow our knee to a mere mortal to get into heaven, is flatly condemned by the Creator's own words[i]: "Cursed is the man who trusteth in man" (Jer 17:5).
[/i]

[Guest Shadyrest]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1288031269' post='2182411']
Dismissed.
[/quote]

I'm still wondering what splinter group this Roman Catholic controversalist is part of? He flat out denies what the church teaches. It's obvious he wishes that his leaders had never said the following, but they did: So to repeat....


[color="#595959"][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="4"][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#595959"][size="2"]Boniface VIII confirms the claim of antiquity from V-2: [i]"it is altogether necessary for salvation for every creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."[/i][/size][/color][/size][/font]
[font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#595959"][size="2"][i]
[/i][/size][/color][/size][/font]
[font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#595959"][size="2"]And Vatican 1 agrees in regard to being in subjection to the Roman Pontiff in particular, "[i]This is the teaching of Catholic truth, from which no one can deviate without loss of faith and [u]salvation[/u]."[/i][/size][/color][/size][/font]
[/size][/font][/color][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="5"][color="#595959"][size="2"][/size][/color][/size][/font][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="5"][color="#595959"][size="2"][i]
[/i][/size][/color][/size][/font]
[font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="5"][color="#595959"][size="2"]These statements expose the lie of the false gospel to which you adhere. And yes, the case will indeed be "dismissed" when you are told to, "Depart from me, I never knew you".[/size][/color][/size][/font]

[Guest Shadyrest]

[quote name='holly.o' timestamp='1288050889' post='2182520']
One word for you: [i]mercy[/i].

Actually two words, to make it more clear: [b]Divine Mercy[/b].


[/quote]


[color="#595959"][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="4"]

It appears however, that you are condemned by your own church. The Council of Trent said in session 6, canon 10, that the Church pronounces a curse on those who say that "justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy that remits sins on account of Christ".

Protestants do believe and do have confidence in that divine mercy of which Trent denied. Trusting in His salvific work in our behalf will save [i]anybody. [/i]Thus, if you are consistent, you should leave the Roman Church [i]immediately, [/i]and find peace in the divine mercy of Christ alone, who gives us rest (Ps 33:18, 33:22, 130:7, 147:11). The false christ of Catholicism only brings burdens, strife and confusion.[/size][/font][/color]

[havok579257]

[quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1288059016' post='2182562']
I'm still wondering what splinter group this Roman Catholic controversalist is part of? He flat out denies what the church teaches. It's obvious he wishes that his leaders had never said the following, but they did: So to repeat....


[color="#595959"][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="4"][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#595959"][size="2"]Boniface VIII confirms the claim of antiquity from V-2: [i]"it is altogether necessary for salvation for every creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."[/i][/size][/color][/size][/font]
[font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#595959"][size="2"][i]
[/i][/size][/color][/size][/font]
[font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#595959"][size="2"]And Vatican 1 agrees in regard to being in subjection to the Roman Pontiff in particular, "[i]This is the teaching of Catholic truth, from which no one can deviate without loss of faith and [u]salvation[/u]."[/i][/size][/color][/size][/font]
[/size][/font][/color][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="5"][color="#595959"][size="2"][/size][/color][/size][/font][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="5"][color="#595959"][size="2"][i]
[/i][/size][/color][/size][/font]
[font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="5"][color="#595959"][size="2"]These statements expose the lie of the false gospel to which you adhere. And yes, the case will indeed be "dismissed" when you are told to, "Depart from me, I never knew you".[/size][/color][/size][/font]
[/quote]

are you still here? what is your point? your not trying to convert people because your being so unchristian about everything you say. Jesus would never act the way you act. so why are you here? just to argue?

[Guest Shadyrest]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1288039433' post='2182473']


Okay, then.

I respectfully withdraw from conversation, as it seems that you're not looking for conversation in the first place. I wish you well. Prayers.

The Church... does not consign you, or any one else, to Hell.

[/quote]



Your response is a total denial of Vatican 1, which you can't escape, so you decide to leave the conversation to put it out of your mind. This is being "willfully ignorant" , using the words of 2 Peter 3:5.
So let's say it again: Vatican 1 said that if you are not in subjection to the Roman Pontiff, this will result in "loss of salvation".
[i]Like it or not, that means, hell.[/i]

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1288060390' post='2182568']
Your response is a total denial of Vatican 1, which you can't escape, so you decide to leave the conversation to put it out of your mind. This is being "willfully ignorant" , using the words of 2 Peter 3:5.
So let's say it again: Vatican 1 said that if you are not in subjection to the Roman Pontiff, this will result in "loss of salvation".
[i]Like it or not, that means, hell.[/i]
[/quote]
THAT IS SO COOL! I DIDN'T KNOW YOU COULD READ MINDS! THAT IS AMAZING!