Occasion Of Sin

[Hinter dem Horizont]

Let's take the action of infidelity and adultery. When a man knows that he loves another woman during a marriage, he should not be in the presence of that woman while alone. It's an occasion of sin. It's too easy to do adultery while in the presence of her. What about an alcoholic? An alcoholic should not go with his friends to the bar because it is too easy to sin while at the bar.

If we study Eve and her temptation, we will notice that she was in the occasion of sin. That is, she was right next to the tree contemplating. If she had not been near the tree she would not have been tempted.

Avoiding such temptations are easy. If you're tempted, replace the temptation with something good. If you're an alcoholic and want to go to a bar, go to a gym and work out instead. Or maybe do something Holy, such as praying. You might think that you can fight the temptation and go to the bar with your friends even though you're an alcoholic but Satan might get a hold of you and you'll sin because you're too weak. Fight the first temptation which is easiest by not going to the place that causes sin. If you think you might commit adultery, remove that first temptation by not being around the woman that you're attracted to.

What are your thoughts?

Edited November 14, 2010 by Hinter dem Horizont

[truthfinder]

Fixed.

Edited November 14, 2010 by truthfinder

[Hinter dem Horizont]

Oh my Lord, how did I make that mistake? Fixed. Thank you for pointing it out.

[WarriorForJesus]

[quote name='Hinter dem Horizont' timestamp='1289767319' post='2187147']
Let's take the action of infidelity and adultery. When a man knows that he loves another woman during a marriage, he should not be in the presence of that woman while alone. It's an occasion of sin. It's too easy to do adultery while in the presence of her. What about an alcoholic? An alcoholic should not go with his friends to the bar because it is too easy to sin while at the bar.

If we study Eve and her temptation, we will notice that she was in the occasion of sin. That is, she was right next to the tree contemplating. If she had not been near the tree she would not have been tempted.

Avoiding such temptations are easy. If you're tempted, replace the temptation with something good. If you're an alcoholic and want to go to a bar, go to a gym and work out instead. Or maybe do something Holy, such as praying. You might think that you can fight the temptation and go to the bar with your friends even though you're an alcoholic but Satan might get a hold of you and you'll sin because you're too weak. Fight the first temptation which is easiest by not going to the place that causes sin. If you think you might commit adultery, remove that first temptation by not being around the woman that you're attracted to.

What are your thoughts?
[/quote]


[color="#800080"]That is all well and good. However, not all temptations can be avoided so easily. How can one avoid being alone with one's own offspring? If the parent is an abuser of his/her children in one way or another, there is bound to be a time or two when just the two of them are going to be in the home alone, don't you think? Especially if the parent is the only parent in the house.

Sure, contact Social Services and have the kids taken away, but what parent has enough gumption to do that?

Also, those littler sins, such as gossip, what if you only gossip at work. How easy is it not to sit at your asigned cubicle and not to gossip when all around you your coworkers are talking about this person or that person?

Janice[/color]

[Hinter dem Horizont]

[quote name='WarriorForJesus' timestamp='1289782661' post='2187172']
[color="#800080"]That is all well and good. However, not all temptations can be avoided so easily. How can one avoid being alone with one's own offspring? If the parent is an abuser of his/her children in one way or another, there is bound to be a time or two when just the two of them are going to be in the home alone, don't you think? Especially if the parent is the only parent in the house.

Sure, contact Social Services and have the kids taken away, but what parent has enough gumption to do that?

Also, those littler sins, such as gossip, what if you only gossip at work. How easy is it not to sit at your asigned cubicle and not to gossip when all around you your coworkers are talking about this person or that person?

Janice[/color]
[/quote]

Good point. When it comes to abuse, it's a completely different scenario. Abuse, mental and physical, is such a crime against the safety of children and children's mental well being. This type of sin should never begin in the first place. We're all responsible for our own actions. If you commit a sin like this you'll answer to God in the afterlife. If you repent and give it up maybe you'll be lucky. But, if you continue and continue you're in the hands of Satan in my opinion.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Hinter dem Horizont' timestamp='1289767319' post='2187147']
Let's take the action of infidelity and adultery. When a man knows that he loves another woman during a marriage, he should not be in the presence of that woman while alone. It's an occasion of sin. It's too easy to do adultery while in the presence of her. What about an alcoholic? An alcoholic should not go with his friends to the bar because it is too easy to sin while at the bar.

If we study Eve and her temptation, we will notice that she was in the occasion of sin. That is, she was right next to the tree contemplating. If she had not been near the tree she would not have been tempted.

Avoiding such temptations are easy. If you're tempted, replace the temptation with something good. If you're an alcoholic and want to go to a bar, go to a gym and work out instead. Or maybe do something Holy, such as praying. You might think that you can fight the temptation and go to the bar with your friends even though you're an alcoholic but Satan might get a hold of you and you'll sin because you're too weak. Fight the first temptation which is easiest by not going to the place that causes sin. If you think you might commit adultery, remove that first temptation by not being around the woman that you're attracted to.

What are your thoughts?
[/quote]

Seriously? I'm laughing right now. You've obviously never been attracted to a woman.

Edit: Or maybe you have some amazing self-control. If so, more power to ya.

Edited November 15, 2010 by LouisvilleFan

[organwerke]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1289791647' post='2187200']
Seriously? I'm laughing right now. You've obviously never been attracted to a woman.

Edit: Or maybe you have some amazing self-control. If so, more power to ya.
[/quote]

A thing is for sure: it is much easier to fight and win immediately a temptation than to give up a sin that has become an established habit.

[Hinter dem Horizont]

[quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1289813878' post='2187222']
A thing is for sure: it is much easier to fight and win immediately a temptation than to give up a sin that has become an established habit.
[/quote]

Exactly. People wish and wish that they did not allow it to become a habit. Doesn't matter what it is. Alcohol, cigarettes, adultery, abuse, pornography et cetera.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hinter dem Horizont' timestamp='1289767319' post='2187147']
Let's take the action of infidelity and adultery. When a man knows that he loves another woman during a marriage, he should not be in the presence of that woman while alone. It's an occasion of sin. It's too easy to do adultery while in the presence of her. What about an alcoholic? An alcoholic should not go with his friends to the bar because it is too easy to sin while at the bar.

If we study Eve and her temptation, we will notice that she was in the occasion of sin. That is, she was right next to the tree contemplating. If she had not been near the tree she would not have been tempted.

Avoiding such temptations are easy. If you're tempted, replace the temptation with something good. If you're an alcoholic and want to go to a bar, go to a gym and work out instead. Or maybe do something Holy, such as praying. You might think that you can fight the temptation and go to the bar with your friends even though you're an alcoholic but Satan might get a hold of you and you'll sin because you're too weak. Fight the first temptation which is easiest by not going to the place that causes sin. If you think you might commit adultery, remove that first temptation by not being around the woman that you're attracted to.

What are your thoughts?
[/quote]

Just because you (in general) find someone other than your spouse attractive does not mean you are going to jump on the next bus with them and high-tail it to the hotel. Attraction could be the starting point but there has to be some disordered desire beneath the surface that works alongside that attraction.

Edited November 15, 2010 by HisChildForever

[Hinter dem Horizont]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1289849906' post='2187255']
Just because you (in general) find someone other than your spouse attractive does not mean you are going to jump on the next bus with them and high-tail it to the hotel. Attraction could be the starting point but there has to be some disordered desire beneath the surface that works alongside that attraction.
[/quote]

Very true. Being attracted to another woman or man does not always lead to infidelity. But, it can definitely lead to something more when given an opportunity to do so. People who have a weakness when it comes to other people, usually know when they are weak in that regard. If you're weak in that regard, then you should not allow yourself to be in that occasion of sin. If you're not weak in that regard, it is still sinful in your heart and thoughts. Why sin in that way? If you really dislike your wife or spouse that much, then do yourself a favour and apply for a divorce. Yes, divorce is a shame especially to children that are involved. But it is a much better option than committing adultery.

[RomanCatholic]

I agree with pretty much everything you have said. We have to replace negative or sinful thoughts and actions with good and holy ones. That's the only way around it in my mind. However, as stated before, it is not always possible to do that, so you do the best you can in any given situation and pray for God's help.

I don't agree that you should divorce your wife if you don't "like" her. It's not something we just say, "oh well" to, and go and find someone who is more attractive. I think I'd rather grow in my marriage and faith through the trails and become better husband and wife, than to throw it away for a sin or other woman who may not even be anything better.

Just a few thoughts I wanted to share.

[Hinter dem Horizont]

[quote name='RomanCatholic' timestamp='1289854125' post='2187263']
I agree with pretty much everything you have said. We have to replace negative or sinful thoughts and actions with good and holy ones. That's the only way around it in my mind. However, as stated before, it is not always possible to do that, so you do the best you can in any given situation and pray for God's help.

I don't agree that you should divorce your wife if you don't "like" her. It's not something we just say, "oh well" to, and go and find someone who is more attractive. I think I'd rather grow in my marriage and faith through the trails and become better husband and wife, than to throw it away for a sin or other woman who may not even be anything better.

Just a few thoughts I wanted to share.
[/quote]

I'm glad you agree to part of it.

I actually agree, we all must try and have faith in any situation. Especially marriages. I did not mean just give up. The divorce would be perfectly ok if you've tried everything, however. And if it is an abusive one, where the man shows no sign of quitting the abusive nature, well, the woman should leave immediately.

[RomanCatholic]

Based on your clarified statement, then I'd fully agree. Even in my own life, if I identify a sin that I commit, I try and find something else in it's place that's holy in God's eyes. Our habits form our lives, we become our habits. We must take control of them and make them good habits that benefit all mankind for the good.

[Hinter dem Horizont]

[quote name='RomanCatholic' timestamp='1289858926' post='2187273']
Based on your clarified statement, then I'd fully agree. Even in my own life, if I identify a sin that I commit, I try and find something else in it's place that's holy in God's eyes. Our habits form our lives, we become our habits. We must take control of them and make them good habits that benefit all mankind for the good.
[/quote]

Precisely. What shapes us, when considering religiosity and our piety, are our habits and prayer life. Not seeking God for help and just allowing the bad habit to grow is an endangerment, really. It's an invitation for Satan to grip your heart. We're supposed to let God grip our heart, not the devil.

[RomanCatholic]

Well said! I don't think we give Satan as much credit he is due-in a bad way of course. He roams the earth with his evil hosts because he knows if we give in, we become his and not Christs. I don't blame him, he knows his time is short, he has to do anything he can to get souls. I once heard a quote that went like this: "When Satan reminds you of your past, remind him of his future."

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1289813878' post='2187222']
A thing is for sure: it is much easier to fight and win immediately a temptation than to give up a sin that has become an established habit.
[/quote]

Of course. I'm sure nearly all of us have established habits of some form or another that impede our progress toward holiness. It doesn't have to be the easy sins to point out like adultery and pornography.

[Hinter dem Horizont]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1289876280' post='2187362']
Of course. I'm sure nearly all of us have established habits of some form or another that impede our progress toward holiness. It doesn't have to be the easy sins to point out like adultery and pornography.
[/quote]

I'm sure we all have little sins as well that are harder to pick out. For example, cursing at our parents or children. Getting angry too easily. Sitting back and letting your life fall apart with no care.

These are much easier to handle though and with time we can correct these mistakes or sins.

[Ed Normile]

I think you are missing the point here, its not only if you find yourself attracted to another woman, a married man should not be alone with another woman no matter how well intentioned or how disinterested he is or how well in control he is. This is allowing for the chance of scandal, not only the sin he may engage in but the sins he may open the door to such as gossip " ed was alone with another woman " may be true and totally harmless, but the gossip is a sin on the soul of those who participate in it and if your wife heard that it could hurt her or your marriage by filling her with doubt and anxiety and breaking trust. The devil awaits these oppurtunities, how would any man feel if his wife stopped to have an innocent ham sandwhich on the way home from work with another man in a public restaurant, even if that man was married or single it opens the door to doubts and worries things that are damaging to a relationship.

I am from a large Irish family, seriously as far as we go back there is no other ethnic group in our family line, so I know about alcoholics very well having seen it destroy the lives of many in my family. Alcoholics need not go to a bar, most drink alone as it is all theirs, they may start out in a bar but as money gets scarce end up solo drinkers and its not just booze, they will drink mouthwash, after shave and even rubbing alcohol to get the buzz they need. Their " near occasion of sin " is 24 / 7 and anywhere they can obtain anything to drink.

ed

[Hinter dem Horizont]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1289977272' post='2187594']
I think you are missing the point here, its not only if you find yourself attracted to another woman, a married man should not be alone with another woman no matter how well intentioned or how disinterested he is or how well in control he is. This is allowing for the chance of scandal, not only the sin he may engage in but the sins he may open the door to such as gossip " ed was alone with another woman " may be true and totally harmless, but the gossip is a sin on the soul of those who participate in it and if your wife heard that it could hurt her or your marriage by filling her with doubt and anxiety and breaking trust. The devil awaits these oppurtunities, how would any man feel if his wife stopped to have an innocent ham sandwhich on the way home from work with another man in a public restaurant, even if that man was married or single it opens the door to doubts and worries things that are damaging to a relationship.

I am from a large Irish family, seriously as far as we go back there is no other ethnic group in our family line, so I know about alcoholics very well having seen it destroy the lives of many in my family. Alcoholics need not go to a bar, most drink alone as it is all theirs, they may start out in a bar but as money gets scarce end up solo drinkers and its not just booze, they will drink mouthwash, after shave and even rubbing alcohol to get the buzz they need. Their " near occasion of sin " is 24 / 7 and anywhere they can obtain anything to drink.

ed
[/quote]

Good point, mate. Scandal can easily spread like an infection and destroy marriages just by being alone for a moment which did not even seem all that for both people.

I was born in Ireland so I know all about how damaging and destructive alcohol is! I have alcoholics in the family and friends who have alcoholics. I never thought of the fact of how much money alcohol costs and what lengths they would go to get the buzz. So, basically, if you're an alcoholic, which means you're predisposed to become an alcoholic. Alcohol abuse is known to be genetic. So, they should not touch it in the first place.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Hinter dem Horizont

[MithLuin]

I agree that it's good to avoid occasions of sin and the appearance of scandal, but....

Seriously? Once you're married, you should [i]never[/i] be alone with a woman? (Or, if you are the wife, [i]never[/i] be alone with a man?) Does this mean you can't have friends of the opposite sex? Is that a 'temptation'? What if your friend isn't very attractive? I understand setting boundaries and avoiding temptations, but I don't think the boundaries should take over your reason for having relationships with other human beings.

Here's a scenario. About a year or so after my sister got married, her husband's best friend moved down to their state and needed a place to stay. My sister and her husband only had one baby, so they easily had a guest room that wasn't being used. So, it made sense all around to let the friend stay with them until he could get enough saved to move out on his own. Was it the easiest thing on their marriage to have someone else living in the house? No, maybe not. But it was a good deed to help out a friend, and the situation was temporary. Were there times when he was home and my brother-in-law was out at work? Sure. I don't think that's a horrible scandal, and if the neighbors talked, that's kinda their problem.

He did move out before my brother-in-law deployed to Afghanistan. I think it would have been more than a little inappropriate for him to live there during the 7 months my sister was on her own with the babies. But I didn't think it was weird for him to stop by and visit my sister during that time. If there is no temptation, it's not an occasion of sin, and just because someone somewhere could construe it as scandal doesn't mean it's really a problem. In a military community, I'm sure everyone knows when someone's husband is deployed, and there are likely to be unkind thoughts if [i]any[/i] male stops by....even if he's just your brother.

I have a close friend who is married, and she was a bit offended when one of her guy friends wouldn't go with her somewhere because it 'wouldn't be appropriate'. To which she was like....ummmm....no offense, but my husband trusts me and there's nothing improper going on here. She didn't like the implication that she was being tempted by adultery. True, I make [i]some[/i] effort not to be alone with her husband, but that's because he's my ex-bf and I don't want her to even have to wonder if he somewhere deep inside secretly still carries a torch for me (he doesn't). But that wouldn't stop me from taking a walk with him when she's not there (for instance).

Every time a married woman goes to confession, she's alone with a man she's not married to. I don't see a problem with this, even if people [i]have[/i] used the confessional inappropriately at times.