ironmonk Posted April 20, 2004 Posted April 20, 2004 How do we know when dialogs become fruitless? Christ instructs us not to give what is holy to dogs and not to throw pearls among swine. [b]St. Matt 7:6 [/b] "[color=red]Do not give what is holy to dogs, [color=blue]*[/color] or throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot, and turn and tear you to pieces. [/color] [color=blue]*[/color]Dogs and swine were Jewish terms of contempt for Gentiles. This saying may originally have derived from a Jewish Christian community opposed to preaching the gospel (what is holy, pearls) to Gentiles. In the light of Matthew 28:19 that can hardly be Matthew's meaning. He may have taken the saying as applying to a Christian dealing with an obstinately impenitent fellow Christian (Matthew 18:17). When do we draw the line to an obstinately impenitent fellow Christian? In a dialog, questions are asked and answered. Now, when in a dialog if only one person in the dialog is answering questions and asking, whereas the other person ignores the questions asked and answers given; only to continue with their own agenda, it really isn't a dialog anymore it's a monolog. In a monolog, a dialog doesn't exist and therefore the dialog cannot be fruitful. One might go as far to say that if they continue responding to the person who ignores them, they might be causing an occasion of sin for others reading and out of frustration and not being able to understand the one who is doing the ignoring might cast judgment. I know that I am guilty of thinking bad of people who are blind to what the truth is. Therefore, I will try to avoid continuing dialog with those that ignore because I don't want to be the cause of anothers sin.... and I want to follow what Christ teaches. If someone continues to be obstinate, the only way to get them to dialog instead of monolog would be for people to ignore them.... (maybe) God Bless, ironmonk
Good Friday Posted April 20, 2004 Posted April 20, 2004 I agree. I think there comes a point, when dialoguing with others, that you have to pack up and say, "Okay, that's enough." Jesus Himself said so. The reason behind it shouldn't be just simple frustration (though that can be a factor), but an honest desire for charity. It's not charitable to continue arguing and arguing a point, only to discover that your opponent is just as opposed to that point as ever, if not moreso because of the arguing. So, I think you're right. I think there comes a time when it becomes clear that the person you're dialoguing with has stopped listening -- and this can happen with Catholics as well as non-Catholics. When one has stopped listening, then the dialogue has ended, and there's not much point in continuing the argument. I think deciding when one has come to that point is largely up to the individual, though.
ironmonk Posted April 20, 2004 Author Posted April 20, 2004 [quote name='Good Friday' date='Apr 20 2004, 07:13 PM'] I agree. I think there comes a point, when dialoguing with others, that you have to pack up and say, "Okay, that's enough." Jesus Himself said so. The reason behind it shouldn't be just simple frustration (though that can be a factor), but an honest desire for charity. It's not charitable to continue arguing and arguing a point, only to discover that your opponent is just as opposed to that point as ever, if not moreso because of the arguing. So, I think you're right. I think there comes a time when it becomes clear that the person you're dialoguing with has stopped listening -- and this can happen with Catholics as well as non-Catholics. When one has stopped listening, then the dialogue has ended, and there's not much point in continuing the argument. I think deciding when one has come to that point is largely up to the individual, though. [/quote] I agree. It's a fine line. We are only given so much time on this earth. I know sometimes I can get over zealous because I know that winning someone over for Christ makes up for a multitude of sins.... and if sins have been forgiven (confession of course), then it's all gravy God Bless, ironmonk
Theoketos Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 I thought this was going to be about Padding your post count, but I like this better.
Norseman82 Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 Matthew 10:14 "If anyone does not receive you or listen to what you have to say, leave that house or town, and once outside it shake its dust from your feet". There is a time to move on.
Quietfire Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 Oh man, I can soooooooooooooooooo relate to this.
Dave Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 I know apologetics isn't a time to argue to win, and yet I must admit to liking to be right. It's gonna be a struggle with me!
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 21 2004, 10:39 AM'] Get a copy of [i]Search and Rescue[/i] [/quote] Ya Cmom, I got it's awesome, great suggestion!! God Bless
IcePrincessKRS Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='Dave' date='Apr 21 2004, 09:25 AM'] I know apologetics isn't a time to argue to win, and yet I must admit to liking to be right. It's gonna be a struggle with me! [/quote] I hear ya, Dave..... boy do I ever.....
cmotherofpirl Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 Just remember the first set of rules: for every hour you try to convert someone, spend a hour in Adoration explaining why.
yezad Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 why is everything about conversion why cant we all just get along ? isnt the belivers relationship with Christ what matters?
Dave Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='yezad' date='Apr 21 2004, 10:47 PM'] why is everything about conversion why cant we all just get along ? isnt the belivers relationship with Christ what matters? [/quote] I wish it were that simple, but it's all about truth.
IcePrincessKRS Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 Good advice Cmom. Although..... for me it doesn't stop at Apologetics.... I like being right with EVERYTHING. lol
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 (edited) [quote]why is everything about conversion why cant we all just get along ?[/quote] [quote]why cant we all just get along ?[/quote] We should be loving to one another no matter what! Jesus said he would be a cause of division even within the family home. So one cannot say because you don't agree with what I know as Tuth, water it down in anyway just to get along, you can do it with charity and love with out watering it down, but you can never water down the Truth. Jesus almost got stoned, thrown off an edge of a cliff, the Pharisees were always trying to set traps to catch Him to put Him to death. Once you know the Truth you can never deny it. [quote]isnt the belivers relationship with Christ what matters? [/quote] Judas had a realtionship with Christ but it wasn't a good one. Explain more what you mean. God Bless Jason Edited April 22, 2004 by Jason
Dave Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='yezad' date='Apr 21 2004, 10:52 PM'] Jesus is the truth [/quote] Well, I was just about to post this link anyway. Yes, Jesus is the truth, but He taught us certain things. Go here: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=2906&st=0entry47090"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...t=0entry47090[/url]
yezad Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 Jesus died for sinners. a relationship with christ is a positive thing to build a relationship with anyone requires work conversation and commetment.
p0lar_bear Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='yezad' date='Apr 21 2004, 10:47 PM'] why is everything about conversion why cant we all just get along ? isnt the belivers relationship with Christ what matters? [/quote] Even if you just look at people's definition of "Jesus" and "relationship" you have significant enough differences to need conversion. Arius had a relationship with Jesus, he thought that He not God by nature, but by grace (an exalted creature), but he had a relationship with Him. Some people think that Jesus and the Father are the exact same person. We understand that they are two persons (three with the Holy Spirit) in one God. To some people, all that is needed for a relationship with Jesus is saying a little prayer one time. Others recognize that it involves more work than that (i.e. regular prayer and constantly conforming oneself to Christ). Some people think that Jesus came only to give us good example, others realize that He did much more than that. Where is the cut off for what is acceptable? At what point does someone need/not need conversion? Who gets to decide what is essential to the Faith and what is not?
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