My Friend/ex-Boyfriend Has Asked Me To Marry Him

[LaPetiteSoeur]

Because he proposed marriage, and the whole religion difference, I'd say break it off.

Pray for him, that he realizes your intentions are pure and God's will.

[HopefulBride]

Thanks again guys and Krissy I really do think I must be more direct than normal (I have said no tons and tons of times) a small part of the reason we broke up 6 years ago was because of my no. I felt that with our religious differences, it wouldn't be fair to either of us. I prayed about it after my no and I still felt the same way. Strange thing is during my relationship with him I always prayed and asked God to show me if I should stay with him (because I was wary of the religious difference) Now I am realizing that the Lord did show me. I guess I should have prayed that the Lord would show him as well....

I have not spoken to him since I told him no and to tell you the truth, I don't know how I'm going to. I have been ignoring him these past couple of days and I know that eventually I must face him and get him to understand...

Please pray for me and for him.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1296567896' post='2207379']
Thanks again guys and Krissy I really do think I must be more direct than normal (I have said no tons and tons of times) a small part of the reason we broke up 6 years ago was because of my no. I felt that with our religious differences, it wouldn't be fair to either of us. I prayed about it after my no and I still felt the same way. Strange thing is during my relationship with him I always prayed and asked God to show me if I should stay with him (because I was wary of the religious difference) Now I am realizing that the Lord did show me. I guess I should have prayed that the Lord would show him as well....

I have not spoken to him since I told him no and to tell you the truth, I don't know how I'm going to. I have been ignoring him these past couple of days and I know that eventually I must face him and get him to understand...

Please pray for me and for him.
[/quote]

Or don't talk to him again. Frankly, I think you'd be well within the boundaries of charity [i]not[/i] speaking to him again. You've used words before. It's not that he hasn't heard you or even understood you. It's that he doesn't [i]respect[/i] you enough to listen. You can say no again and again, more forcefully each time... but honestly, I think at this point the old adage is truer than ever: Actions speak louder than words. Don't contact him again. Don't try and explain again. He has the words; he'll remember them. But now there's action to seal it up.

[ksterling]

I no longer date since I am seriously discerning. Sometimes I go out with a mixed group - pizza, movies - but I don't date. I see no need to lead any man into thinking we are going to have a relationship - let him go out with a woman who is interested in marriage. The Muslim part is a whole new complication which could be very problematic. You need to make a decision. If you really feel called to religious life, I think you should act in accordance with that decision. Not for nothing do the Nashville Dominicans prohibit their sisters in formation from writing to men not in their immediate family. If I was engaged, I wouldn't still be dating. I feel the same way about religious life. I made a decision and I will act in accordance with that decision. Just my 2 cents.

Kat

[MithLuin]

The reason I said what I did was because I have had an ex propose to me. (Not with a ring or anything, but still.)

I dated a guy for ~ 4 1/2 years, starting when we were both in high school, and continuing through college (at different colleges). Obviously, after dating someone for that long, the possibility of marriage had been seriously considered by both of us. The relationship was pretty good for the first two years, but deteriorated after that point. He had on several occasions broken things off and then gotten back together. Finally, I had had enough and didn't take him back when he did that again.

He was devastated, kept asking me why, etc. I continued talking to him because...well, I was his closest friend, and I didn't think it would be fair to just abandon him. That Christmas, he proposed to me, because (as he put it), he'd planned to then anyway. Obviously, I had to turn him down. That spring, he had a string of bad things happen to him - a coworker died right in front of him, he lost his job, etc. I thought that continuing to talk to him was the only charitable thing to do.....

Turns out, it took him over a year to get over me. He didn't really believe things were over until he met my new boyfriend. And why did he think he still had a chance with me? Maybe because...I let him think that way. As much as I thought I was being crystal clear in saying 'no, never going to happen,' the fact that I continued to make time for him, to talk to him, and even (on occasion) agreed to see him [never on a 'date'] gave him false hope and didn't let him heal. In the end, I had to drive the point home [i]very[/i] cruelly.

So, here's the scenario. He tells me he's going to be driving by my college on his way home, and can he stop by and visit? At this point, it's a little over a year since we broke up...and he knows I've been dating a guy for a few weeks/a month. I tell him, sure, he can stop by in the afternoon, but I have plans in the evening. My boyfriend had work to do that afternoon, but of course I had promised to spend Sat. evening with him. So, ex stops by, and he and I and my roommate chit-chat throughout the afternoon. He's parked himself on the couch and complains of being tired from his long drive, and maybe he's not going to make it home...basically, he threatens to fall asleep on my couch and refuses to leave (albeit very passive-aggressively). I know it's a mind game, but it puts me in a bit of a dilemma. I can leave him there with my roommate (awkward for her!) and go out with my bf. Or I can cancel my plans with my bf and entertain the ex for the evening (caving into his manipulation). Or...I could do what I did. Which was to call my bf and invite him over, explaining that I was a bit stuck because my guest hadn't left yet, but of course I still wanted to see him (he knew my ex was coming by). So, he showed up, and (surprise, surprise), my ex decided he was alright to drive home after all. My roommate yelled at me afterwards for being so heartless to the poor guy, but my parents told me I had done the right thing. My dad said I needed to show him that he wasn't the most important person in my life - that I had chosen the new bf over him.

About 6 mo. later, he found himself a new girlfriend, something he would never have done if he'd still been hoping to get back together with me.


He is now happily married, has a beautiful daughter, and a son on the way. I still see him and talk to him, because I am good friends with his wife. (I was maid of honor at his wedding and am godmother to his daughter - because of his wife, not because of him.) I don't have much one-on-one interaction with him anymore, though, and that's fine with both of us. It's also been over 10 years since all of this happened.

So, I know I didn't handle the situation well. Looking back, I can see how much I hurt him by dragging things on. I *thought* I was being nice or charitable or a good friend...but I wasn't. That's why I'm letting you know that [i]saying[/i] 'I'm sorry, but no, I will not marry you' is not enough. Your actions have to make it clear, too. Crystal clear. And that means...severing the friendship. [b]TB[/b] is right. You can 'let him down easy' if you feel you have to, by explaining that you think he'll make a very good husband to some other girl, and that you will of course continue to pray for him....but then you have to end it. It's probably better if you just don't talk to him again at all. He will not hear the 'no' - he'll just hear 'she cares about me! she's talking to me!'

I'm sorry. I know this isn't easy.

Edited February 1, 2011 by MithLuin

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='ksterling' timestamp='1296571463' post='2207397']
I no longer date since I am seriously discerning. Sometimes I go out with a mixed group - pizza, movies - but I don't date. I see no need to lead any man into thinking we are going to have a relationship - let him go out with a woman who is interested in marriage. The Muslim part is a whole new complication which could be very problematic. You need to make a decision. If you really feel called to religious life, I think you should act in accordance with that decision. Not for nothing do the Nashville Dominicans prohibit their sisters in formation from writing to men not in their immediate family. If I was engaged, I wouldn't still be dating. I feel the same way about religious life. I made a decision and I will act in accordance with that decision. Just my 2 cents.

Kat
[/quote]

We aren't dating and haven't been dating for over six years. It's not up to me to "let" or not let him go out with anyone. All I can do is not act in a way that leads him on (which I was sure I was doing) Not spending time with him one-on-one and not talking to him as much. Since our break-up he has dated other women (a couple of them serious) and I have dated other men. I've sought advice from him and vice versa. It's just recently he started with this nonsense that has me torn between a friendship that we had before we started dating and the need to make him respect and honor my decision.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1296574524' post='2207405']
The reason I said what I did was because I have had an ex propose to me. (Not with a ring or anything, but still.)

I dated a guy for ~ 4 1/2 years, starting when we were both in high school, and continuing through college (at different colleges). Obviously, after dating someone for that long, the possibility of marriage had been seriously considered by both of us. The relationship was pretty good for the first two years, but deteriorated after that point. He had on several occasions broken things off and then gotten back together. Finally, I had had enough and didn't take him back when he did that again.

He was devastated, kept asking me why, etc. I continued talking to him because...well, I was his closest friend, and I didn't think it would be fair to just abandon him. That Christmas, he proposed to me, because (as he put it), he'd planned to then anyway. Obviously, I had to turn him down. That spring, he had a string of bad things happen to him - a coworker died right in front of him, he lost his job, etc. I thought that continuing to talk to him was the only charitable thing to do.....

Turns out, it took him over a year to get over me. He didn't really believe things were over until he met my new boyfriend. And why did he think he still had a chance with me? Maybe because...I let him think that way. As much as I thought I was being crystal clear in saying 'no, never going to happen,' the fact that I continued to make time for him, to talk to him, and even (on occasion) agreed to see him [never on a 'date'] gave him false hope and didn't let him heal. In the end, I had to drive the point home [i]very[/i] cruelly.

So, here's the scenario. He tells me he's going to be driving by my college on his way home, and can he stop by and visit? At this point, it's a little over a year since we broke up...and he knows I've been dating a guy for a few weeks/a month. I tell him, sure, he can stop by in the afternoon, but I have plans in the evening. My boyfriend had work to do that afternoon, but of course I had promised to spend Sat. evening with him. So, ex stops by, and he and I and my roommate chit-chat throughout the afternoon. He's parked himself on the couch and complains of being tired from his long drive, and maybe he's not going to make it home...basically, he threatens to fall asleep on my couch and refuses to leave (albeit very passive-aggressively). I know it's a mind game, but it puts me in a bit of a dilemma. I can leave him there with my roommate (awkward for her!) and go out with my bf. Or I can cancel my plans with my bf and entertain the ex for the evening (caving into his manipulation). Or...I could do what I did. Which was to call my bf and invite him over, explaining that I was a bit stuck because my guest hadn't left yet, but of course I still wanted to see him (he knew my ex was coming by). So, he showed up, and (surprise, surprise), my ex decided he was alright to drive home after all. My roommate yelled at me afterwards for being so heartless to the poor guy, but my parents told me I had done the right thing. My dad said I needed to show him that he wasn't the most important person in my life - that I had chosen the new bf over him.

About 6 mo. later, he found himself a new girlfriend, something he would never have done if he'd still been hoping to get back together with me.


He is now happily married, has a beautiful daughter, and a son on the way. I still see him and talk to him, because I am good friends with his wife. (I was maid of honor at his wedding and am godmother to his daughter - because of his wife, not because of him.) I don't have much one-on-one interaction with him anymore, though, and that's fine with both of us. It's also been over 10 years since all of this happened.

So, I know I didn't handle the situation well. Looking back, I can see how much I hurt him by dragging things on. I *thought* I was being nice or charitable or a good friend...but I wasn't. That's why I'm letting you know that [i]saying[/i] 'I'm sorry, but no, I will not marry you' is not enough. Your actions have to make it clear, too. Crystal clear. And that means...severing the friendship. [b]TB[/b] is right. You can 'let him down easy' if you feel you have to, by explaining that you think he'll make a very good husband to some other girl, and that you will of course continue to pray for him....but then you have to end it. It's probably better if you just don't talk to him again at all. He will not hear the 'no' - he'll just hear 'she cares about me! she's talking to me!'

I'm sorry. I know this isn't easy.
[/quote]

Mith,

Thanks so much for sharing this and for your response. It isn't easy (not so much because I don't want to end the friendship but because I don't want to end it on a bad note) I do feel that he is being disrespectful by not honoring my decision but at the same time, I keep thinking that I don't need to be brutal to get my point across (though I am seeing that this is a false logic)

I guess I won't ignore his next call and will just give it to him straight.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1296570385' post='2207393']
Or don't talk to him again. Frankly, I think you'd be well within the boundaries of charity [i]not[/i] speaking to him again. You've used words before. It's not that he hasn't heard you or even understood you. It's that he doesn't [i]respect[/i] you enough to listen. You can say no again and again, more forcefully each time... but honestly, I think at this point the old adage is truer than ever: Actions speak louder than words. Don't contact him again. Don't try and explain again. He has the words; he'll remember them. But now there's action to seal it up.
[/quote]


You are right on the money about eh respect thing TB. I just need to stop trying to spare his feelings and get my point accross. I always have this problem, with worrying about people's feelings, especially if I know they tend to be more on the sensitive side. Come to think of it, I think like Mith's ex he might be taking advantage of that.

[vee]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1296570385' post='2207393']
Or don't talk to him again. Frankly, I think you'd be well within the boundaries of charity [i]not[/i] speaking to him again. You've used words before. [b] It's not that he hasn't heard you or even understood you. It's that he doesn't [i]respect[/i] you enough to listen. [/b] You can say no again and again, more forcefully each time... but honestly, I think at this point the old adage is truer than ever: Actions speak louder than words. Don't contact him again. Don't try and explain again. He has the words; he'll remember them. But now there's action to seal it up.
[/quote]


[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1296574524' post='2207405']
..but then you have to end it. It's probably better if you just don't talk to him again at all. [b]He will not hear the 'no' - he'll just hear 'she cares about me! she's talking to me!'[/b]

I'm sorry. I know this isn't easy.
[/quote]

THESE!!!! A million times these!!

[Papist]

[font=Tahoma][size=2]The loving thing to do is be honest and straight with him,and not let him believe there is hope you will marry him. I agree that a clear,to the point approach is best. Leave no room for ambiguity. I alsoagree it is best that you both part ways in lieu of being a hindrance to eachother in your search of your true vocation.[/size][/font]

[font=Tahoma][size=2]Tip: I recommend having this conversation in a public venue.[/size][/font]

[font=Tahoma][size=2] God bless you![/size][/font]

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1296513724' post='2207201']
Most of my women friends are a few years ahead (married and some of which actively discerned religious life) so I am grateful for their input. I do wish there were more young ladies who were considering or have considered religious life in my circle...
[/quote]
Same here, on both points.

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1296514140' post='2207202']
Same here. I am trying to figure how to meet some very chaste, Catholic women more near my age that are interested in religious life. It seems most out there are interested in boys and marriage. But phatmass has been great.
[/quote]
I feel the same way. I recently got some news about a friend that shocked me and saddened me. Striving for anything less than sainthood is mind-boggling to me.

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1296567896' post='2207379']
Please pray for me and for him.
[/quote]
Of course.


For various reasons, I won't go into my own experience with letting go of a relationship of this kind. I had to make the decision to cut off contact with a man I loved very deeply. I was convicted when I made that last phone call but shortly after wanted to take it all back. It was harder for me than I expected. I struggled with it for a good many years. Fortunately I had lots of really faithful friends around me (on in particular comes to mind, another mod here on PM) to remind me why the decision was and had to be made.

Making that decision allowed me growth in so many ways. I continue to grow because of that one decision and I am now in a position to closer to our Lord because of it.

[Santa Cruz]

A very wise priest told me years ago (I've been discerning religious life for too many years) that it is not possible to have male "friends" because the male will always have something else in mind. I always had close female friends and spent most time with females but I thought I could have a couple of close male friends too. I figured I was "safe" in saying that I was discerning religious life and that any good Catholic guy would understand and respect that. Ever since my spiritual director corrected me, I have only spent time with men while in the company of other females. I used to go for walks, go out to eat or go to Mass etc. with male friends. It is soooo much better, more ordered when women spend time in female circles and men in male circles. As others mentioned, it helps to build good feminine qualities when women spend time with other females. And, even if God were calling me to marriage, it is so much better to get to know someone in the context of one's friends and family.

I will pray for you and your spiritual director and for your male friend.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='Santa Cruz' timestamp='1296686716' post='2207943']
A very wise priest told me years ago (I've been discerning religious life for too many years) that it is not possible to have male "friends" because the male will always have something else in mind. I always had close female friends and spent most time with females but I thought I could have a couple of close male friends too. I figured I was "safe" in saying that I was discerning religious life and that any good Catholic guy would understand and respect that. Ever since my spiritual director corrected me, I have only spent time with men while in the company of other females. I used to go for walks, go out to eat or go to Mass etc. with male friends. It is soooo much better, more ordered when women spend time in female circles and men in male circles. As others mentioned, it helps to build good feminine qualities when women spend time with other females. And, even if God were calling me to marriage, it is so much better to get to know someone in the context of one's friends and family.

I will pray for you and your spiritual director and for your male friend.
[/quote]

In general, I agree. But in very Holy or spiritual people, they seem to work, ex. St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross were close friends and wrote letters to eachother often.

Personally, I agree for myself. I could so easily fall for some guy and get tempted away from the Religious Life. I won't do that to myself.

[Santa Cruz]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1296687120' post='2207945']
In general, I agree. But in very Holy or spiritual people, they seem to work, ex. St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross were close friends and wrote letters to eachother often.

Personally, I agree for myself. I could so easily fall for some guy and get tempted away from the Religious Life. I won't do that to myself.
[/quote]

Thank you for raising that point...also Francis and Clare, Raymond of Cupua and Catherine of Siena, Isidore and Marie, Francis de Sales and Jane Chantal and of course the biggest and best, our Blessed Mother and Joseph...It is most beautiful in the Communion of Saints.

On the other hand, it is also important to be careful if you are in a friendship with someone who struggles with same sex attraction. It is a relationship that should be well discussed with one's Superiors or spiritual director.
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