Persistent Venial Sin

[Era Might]

Suppose you are entangled in a venial sin that you cannot quit without great difficulty. For example, suppose your job requires you to engage in a venial sin consistently, and the only way to quit the venial sin would be to quit your job. What advice would you give to a Christian in that situation.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Era Might

[havok579257]

what job requires you to commit a venial sin is the first question?

[Era Might]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1301105100' post='2223373']
what job requires you to commit a venial sin is the first question?
[/quote]
Lots of jobs. It's a general question, it doesn't matter which specific job. And it's just an example. There are other kinds of situations that could be used as examples, not just a job.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1301105903' post='2223378']
Lots of jobs. It's a general question, it doesn't matter which specific job. And it's just an example. There are other kinds of situations that could be used as examples, not just a job.
[/quote]


i ask because i can not think of one job(real job) that makes someone commit a venial sin.

[emilier98]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1301108579' post='2223384']
i ask because i can not think of one job(real job) that makes someone commit a venial sin.
[/quote]

Being a skip tracer requires you to lie

[Nihil Obstat]

I think you'd have to quit, hypothetically. We can't approve of venial sin, even though it's not as serious as mortal. We shouldn't put ourselves in a position even to make venial sins more likely or unavoidable.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1301112560' post='2223401']
I think you'd have to quit, hypothetically. We can't approve of venial sin, even though it's not as serious as mortal. We shouldn't put ourselves in a position even to make venial sins more likely or unavoidable.
[/quote]
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but how far would you take this. What if there is no work for you where you can avoid venial sin. Would you take this absolute position all the way, regardless of the consequences?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1301113128' post='2223404']
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but how far would you take this. What if there is no work for you where you can avoid venial sin. Would you take this absolute position all the way, regardless of the consequences?
[/quote]
Instead of answering, I'll ask a related question: can we ever approve of sin, even venial? Can we ever excuse deliberate continuous sin, when it isn't literally the only choice?
Hypotheticals are so hard though.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1301118772' post='2223431']
Instead of answering, I'll ask a related question: can we ever approve of sin, even venial? Can we ever excuse deliberate continuous sin, when it isn't literally the only choice?
Hypotheticals are so hard though.
[/quote]
"Approve of"? No. But if you're going to go through life with a standard of absolute perfection, you may find yourself unable to do anything (in the sense that Christ couldn't do anything while he was on the Cross, yet he did everything in that very decision to allow his hands and feet to be nailed to a cross). I'm not saying that the standard of absolute perfection is right or wrong. I honestly don't know. But it gets very complicated in the world. To remain true to a standard of absolute perfection, then you're going to have to live a very radical life. That is ideal, of course. But can we recognize our predicament and accept venial sin in certain circumstances (without condoning it, and while trying to move toward different circumstances)? I don't know. It's easy to talk about a standard of absolute perfection, but hard to follow through with all the consequences of that radical decision. Yet Our Lord tells us to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. If we must lose our lives for Christ, should we blink to lose our jobs (even if it's to avoid venial sin)? It's not easy being a Christian in the world.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Era Might

[Nihil Obstat]

Not easy at all. I think we have to be hardline when it comes to our own actions. As far as we are able.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1301119790' post='2223433']
Not easy at all. I think we have to be hardline when it comes to our own actions. As far as we are able.
[/quote]
That is a courageous decision with major consequences (if you're truly living by the decision). I'd like to meet the man who lives by it. I'd like to shake his hand and ask his advice.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1301120205' post='2223434']
That is a courageous decision with major consequences (if you're truly living by the decision). I'd like to meet the man who lives by it. I'd like to shake his hand and ask his advice.
[/quote]
Well we all fail in certain ways. Everyone has their issues. However, I do think that if we become aware of something that consistently causes us to sin deliberately, we need to try to cut that out.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1301120781' post='2223435']
Well we all fail in certain ways. Everyone has their issues. However, I do think that if we become aware of something that consistently causes us to sin deliberately, we need to try to cut that out.
[/quote]
That's a wide phrasing, though: "try to cut that out." Do you "try to cut it out" with a long-term plan (in the meanwhile accepting its hold on you), or do you chop it off immediately like a foot with gangrene?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1301121017' post='2223436']
That's a wide phrasing, though: "try to cut that out." Do you "try to cut it out" with a long-term plan (in the meanwhile accepting its hold on you), or do you chop it off immediately like a foot with gangrene?
[/quote]
Probably depends on the circumstances. How serious the sin is, how easy it would be to cut out. It's on the individual's conscience. I'm not going to try to tell anyone how to perfect themselves. As long as we're willing to recognize sin when we see it, then we deal with how to remove it from our lives.
Since it's such a personal hypo, it has to be a personal reaction too, I guess.

[TeresaBenedicta]

I'm having trouble thinking of a job that would [i]require[/i] you to sin. I've had... five jobs. Only in one was there any encouragement to do something that was less than honest (targeting low-income/immigrant families for a company credit card). But I was able to forgo that without the loss of my job. I didn't always make my 'quota', but I dealt with that as a consequence.

Life is complicated, there's no doubt about that. But the core of our moral life is the maxim "never directly chose evil." And that applies to all evils on the spectrum-- from mortal to venial sin. If one's job requires you to sin, then one ought not continue in such a job. Matthew 5:29-30.

[Ed Normile]

So a job as a public filthy word screamer is out the question ? I will not be allowed to be a professional peeping tom ? A career as a used car salesman is questionable ! No way I could be an electable politician. Naturally a job as a gigilo is out too. Where is a man supposed to seek gainful employment with these limits?

ed

[Chamomile]

Hmmm... if God always gives us the grace to reject sin in every instance, then how could one even be in this position?

Either you would have the grace to choose not to sin within your job (and that grace will always be present, even if it's difficult).

Or, if that grace is not present due to the nature of that job (like Ed's examples...), then that's obviously not God's will for you to be there.

If the first option, I would say one should persevere in doing what is right. In the second instance, quit and trust that by following God's will, you will always have what you need.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1301418938' post='2224232']
So a job as a public filthy word screamer is out the question ? I will not be allowed to be a professional peeping tom ? A career as a used car salesman is questionable ! No way I could be an electable politician. Naturally a job as a gigilo is out too. Where is a man supposed to seek gainful employment with these limits?

ed
[/quote]
I would argue that used car salesman is perfectly acceptable in principle. There is nothing inherent in the nature of that job that requires sinful behaviour.
In fact, if one were to approach that job with the right mindset, he would actually be doing a great service to the working class of his community. Cars lose something like 60% of their value within a year of purchase. People with money love to buy a new car every three years or so, so what happens to the old one? Well now it's worth maybe a quarter of what they paid for it, and it's got a minimum of another seven years left in it, and almost certainly more like fifteen. That's how the market redistributes wealth, my friends. :D

[MIKolbe]

quit your job and find another that doesn't require that you sin.

or..

keep it, and explain to God that you persisted in venial sin because it was of 'great difficulty' to quit.

[CatherineM]

My mom opened her own beauty shop on our back porch because she got tired of being asked to talk women into the more expensive shampoos or perms when she knew they all came out of the same bottle. I can think of lots of jobs that would require venial sinning.

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