Kids

[crusader1234]

Hey,

I was just thinking today, that if I hadnt been a cradle catholic... would I have ended up this way?

As for the kids part... should we be forcing Catholocism on our kids after a certain point? I know we are supposed to 'Raise them up in a way they shall grow so when they are grown they shall not depart from it'. But at a cretain point, say around confirmation time, shouldnt parents give up?

A girl I know just took confirmation then started going to mennonite church. I was ... appaled to say the least. I was like Why bother? and she said she was 'both'. I dont get it... whats wrong with this?? Her parents forced her Catholic and then... oh whatever. anywyas whta do you think the cutoff age for raising them up in the way is?

[God Conquers]

Cutoff Age: when they leave your house you no longer have physical control of whether or not they attend church, so not much you can do there.

But, as a parent you are partially responsible for the spiritual development and salvation of your child. We are bound at marriage to raise our children in the Church, and must obey this to the best of our ability in order to remain Catholic ourselves.

We have to pray constantly for our children, faithful or not. We need to take ownership of their physical AND spiritual needs, and this means both catechesis and promoting a genuine love for the Church so that they can take over ownership of their own faith.

Am I right parents? I don't have kids, so maybe my position will change when I do.

[M.SIGGA]

If my mom didn't insist I had to attend Mass with the family almost as a requirement to live under her roof when I joined a Non-denominational Church in High School, I might still be a Protestant. She was really upset about it, but she said that didn't erase my family Mass "requirement", and today I'm really glad that was her policy

When I'm at home on a Sunday now I still have to go if everyone else is going Lol.

[homeschoolmom]

This is a very interesting topic... something I've grappled with. I will be watching to see what others have to say... and I'll add my two bits... but it's one in the morning... too tired... :sleep:

[Dave]

Considering the young age at which kids get confirmed these days, they're not exactly out on their own at that time. Parents need to lay down the law and require their kids to play by their rules -- including Mass attendance -- even after confirmation until the kids leave. And even when they come home to visit.

I mean, if their kids are living with someone outside of marriage (which is usually long after they've moved out), and they come home to visit, many parents will (and all parents should) assign separate bedrooms for them. So why shouldn't the same thing apply to Mass when the kids are home visiting?

[Sojourner]

When I was growing up, I thought my parents were uber-Christians, a bit over-zealous. We went to church every week, and every single night of my life we had family worship time, in which we'd read the Bible, discuss it, and pray.

There were times I enjoyed it, and times I resented it and thought it was being shoved down my throat. Even now, if I go home, my dad still does family worship with whoever's there.

I strayed away from the faith for a couple of years, but since I've come back and started actually taking it seriously, I am glad for the foundation I have as a result of my parents.

In Deuteronomy, the Israelites are commanded to teach their children to love God, and to write his commands on their hearts, to talk about them wherever they are ... my parents did this to the best of their ability, and they still do it. We're told to teach our children and our grandchildren to love God -- I think it's a form of evangelization, and it's really never supposed to stop.

[Hananiah]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Apr 22 2004, 11:34 PM'] As for the kids part... should we be forcing Catholocism on our kids after a certain point? [/quote]
I think we should simply raise our children so innundated with Catholicism that for them rejecting Catholicism would be like a fish rejecting the ocean. In an ideal world the thought would never cross their minds.

[mamalove]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Apr 22 2004, 11:41 PM'] Cutoff Age: when they leave your house you no longer have physical control of whether or not they attend church, so not much you can do there.

But, as a parent you are partially responsible for the spiritual development and salvation of your child. We are bound at marriage to raise our children in the Church, and must obey this to the best of our ability in order to remain Catholic ourselves.

We have to pray constantly for our children, faithful or not. We need to take ownership of their physical AND spiritual needs, and this means both catechesis and promoting a genuine love for the Church so that they can take over ownership of their own faith.

Am I right parents? I don't have kids, so maybe my position will change when I do. [/quote]
Agree. Just because your child reaches a certain age, doesn't mean they are no longer your child. You should always love and nurture your children spritually and physically no matter how old they are or whether they live with you or not. If they reject you, your love and the Church. As a parent you are still obligated to pray for them.

[crusader1234]

Hey,

I dont agree that kids should be forced to confirm. What if they don't mean it??? Thats almost a blasphemy. My Youth Minister was adamant that any youth who was doing it for their parents drop out becuase thats not what Catholocism is about, its about faith.

[God Conquers]

But if you don't push your children into their faith, you do them an injustice. Everyone needs firm encouragement at some point or other in their life. Pre-18, it's not about faith (well, it could be) but a parent must make it so for their children.

It's not forcing them to do what is wrong, but what is right. You're giving them a chance to have a solid base built up for if they do decide one day to leave, like Hananiah said, they must come back, because it would be unnatural for them.

[nikkan_hanil]

Forcing religion on a teen will make it worse. Looking at my youth group will prove that for ya. I learned that true happiness and sincerity in religion is found through self discoverey....and homeschooling.

[Livin_the_MASS]

LEAD BY EXAMPLE

[God Conquers]

So... If your 15 yr old kid says "I'm not goign to Church anymore." you say, no problem?

Not in my house.

[Dave]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Apr 23 2004, 11:21 PM'] So... If your 15 yr old kid says "I'm not goign to Church anymore." you say, no problem?

Not in my house. [/quote]
Amen! Your parents raised you well, and I know you'll be raising your own kids well! God Conquers rules!!!!

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Apr 23 2004, 10:21 PM'] So... If your 15 yr old kid says "I'm not goign to Church anymore." you say, no problem?

Not in my house. [/quote]
I'm sorry I guess you misunderstood me I meant be the leader go to Holy Mass everyday be the example, that didn't mean that gives the child the right to run the home.

Sorry I should have had more detail. I will raise my kids Catholic, they have already been baptized and they will be confirmed, I will teach them all Truth, and as long as they live under my house I am the head of it. I will not permit any sinful living.

God Bless
Jason

[Born Again Catholic]

I will never abandon my children no matter what the age. The years between the start of highschool and marriage may be the time your kids need you the most to be like rock of the faith for them. Rather than backing away this is the age when we should be encouraging them to discern if the have a calling to a religous vocation.

I am almost 40 and I still need a Mother(mary) to help point the way to Jesus especially when I stumble.

God has invited us to be part of His family, he will never abandon us, why should we abandon our own kids?

God Bless

[Crusader_4]

There is a trend that i notice around here a lot that Crusader1234 kind of mentioned a lot of Catholic teens...get torn away from the faith to what appear to be flashier movements and more Charismatic Churchs yet when it comes to depth and theology and the truth its shallow. So i think altho i am on a convert and not a cradle...i think it needs to be instilled with them with a love. My parents never put any undue pressure on me to go 2 Church, but it was something we did as a family...as well for some reason and i am sure some ppl here have it its an inkling of God from their Childhood. That they felt and believed God was there and i cant explain it but my parents instilled this seed in me so when i left the church they attended and entered the Catholic faith it was as if the seed that they had instilled in me bloomed. I dont tackle any issues here, but thats just what i have experienced on my journey home.

[jasJis]

Just a side note. Only in America is the Sacrament of Confirmation held back until teen years. It's not a rite of adult-hood. That idea is Protestant theology. Confirmation is one of the 3 Sacraments of Initiation to membership in Church. If a 7 year-old child (normative age of Reason) is able to recieve the Eucharist and recieve Graces, then logic shows that Confirmation is not more important.

Sacraments are gifts of Grace through physical signs and actions. Within the next 10 years at most, Confirmation will be placed between Baptism and First Communion where it should. Diocese will change their Catechisis programs and follow the model Florida uses for RCIA with continuing teen and adult education that is ritual/liturgy oriented and develop mystagogy of the Graces.

Baptism is the Gift of Faith and membership in the Church. Confirmation is strengthening of that Faith and ties to the Church. The Child wasn't asked about Baptism, neither should Confirmation be a choice. It needs to be moved back to a time that the kids aren't in a normally rebellious stage of emotional development and other efforts to share and show the fruits of the Catholic Faith to kids, teens, young and old aldults.

[crusader1234]

The way my youth minister explained it was that confirmation is saying 'Ok... I get what I've been learning all this time and I believe it and I want to be a part of this community'. It doesnt make sense to have non-catholics confirm? In my eyes that seems almost the same as spitting out the eucharist or making stuff up at confession for a good laugh. Its really just desecrating the sacrament which is intended if im not mistaken for those who want to take that next step in their faith.

[jasJis]

crusader1234,
Your youth minister's explaination is wrong and is basically spouting Lutheran theology, but that is a very common mistaken belief held by Catholics. It's very akin to a "believer's baptism". Check out the Catechism and read what Confirmation is about. Only in the US is Confirmation done in the Teen years and only for the last 50-60 years. I'm involved in Confirmation programs and I've had this explained by our Diocesan Director of Religous Education.

Lack of understanding of the Fullness of the graces bestowed in a Sacrament does not prevent the effects of the Sacrament. If lack of understanding was that critical, we wouldn't baptize babies or let 7 year olds recieve communion. It's a fine line making your kids recieve the Sacrament of Confirmation when they'r 14-15 and are struggling against it. How much is normal questioning? How much is normal teenage rebellion? They still will recieve Graces just as they did in Baptism. A parent needs to ask themselves if they force their kid to recieve the Sacrament, will it strengthen their rebelliousness, or will it be something that they will be gratefull for years later because of the graces recieved.

Catholics don't believe in a one time "conversion". We are called to conversion every day, from whatever place we may find our selves. We recognize God's graces are drawing us ever closer, and closer to Him. We spend our lifetimes growing and developing our relationship to God through the Body of Christ. We need the graces given in the Sacraments, and spend our lives participating with the effects of those graces that God gifts us with.