Religious Freedom In Europe

[Didacus]

excellent article... but a little out of date. You should really try to find articles written in 2005 Cmom.
*smirk*

Is there an update somewhere?

And I would rather see goverment being pushed by religion, even Islam, than by atheistic thinking any day!

Edited January 18, 2006 by Didacus

[jezic]

you must have looked long and hard for this one. (i mean didacus. It was a post from 2003)

[Mercy me]

From my experience the greatest threat to religion in Europe is not laws but philosophy. Secular humanism is rampant and ever so empty.

[dustthouart]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Jan 18 2006, 03:44 PM']And I would rather see goverment being pushed by religion, even Islam, than by atheistic thinking any day!
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[/quote]

I disagree. Wrong religions are fully as horrible when they're in control. Look at how Afghanistan was under the Taliban.

I don't think the Church should have temporal authority, because it invites corruption. I think all the people in the world should be Catholics, and that politicians and rulers should be driven by Catholic morals. But the Pope as temporal leader, for example... it was a disaster in the Renaissance! Alexander VI, Julius II...

[Krostandt]

[quote name='PedroX' date='Aug 17 2003, 08:56 PM']Yes, but why do they continue to try and be "state religions"?  They are behind most of these laws.  I just don't understand why they keep holding to this idea.

peace...
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[/quote]
Because this has been the way it's been for centuries, and many Eastern Europeans see the Church as the one thing not mixed up with Communists or corrupt governments. Even Poland is like this with Catholicism.
Personally, I cannot blame them. Russia in 19th century had many blessings and although the country was poor, the people were fervent and active. Thus, I cannot blame them for wanting to restore their religion to the prominancy.

I would also agree strongly with Mercy Me. Worry less about state religions and more about secular humanism. That's much more of a threat.

[Didacus]

[quote name='jezic' date='Jan 18 2006, 02:08 PM']you must have looked long and hard for this one. (i mean didacus. It was a post from 2003)
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[/quote]

Reviving old threads is a passtime of mine!

:

[Didacus]

[quote name='dustthouart' date='Jan 18 2006, 09:39 PM']I disagree. Wrong religions are fully as horrible when they're in control. Look at how Afghanistan was under the Taliban.

I don't think the Church should have temporal authority, because it invites corruption. I think all the people in the world should be Catholics, and that politicians and rulers should be driven by Catholic morals. But the Pope as temporal leader, for example... it was a disaster in the Renaissance! Alexander VI, Julius II... 
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[/quote]

at least Islam would not permit rampant homosexuality on TV and in the streets and force it down your throat!

And imagine the lives that would be saved with the banning of abortion!?!?!

Islam is a religion of peace - remember?

[dandy777]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Jan 19 2006, 06:17 PM']And imagine the lives that would be saved with the banning of abortion!?!?!
[/quote]

Don't count too much on that! In my country, abortion is till illegal yet there is a considerable number of women who go abroad mainly to other European countries like England and the Netherlands, where they get it done over there.

What do you mean by state religions? Are you referring to a particular religion that is officially recognised by the country?

[dandy777]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Jan 19 2006, 06:17 PM']Islam is a religion of peace - remember?[/quote]

It is only when practised properly.

[musturde]

Look at Saudi Arabia for an example of a Government based on Islam. It's alright... i guess. No drinking, camera phones, revealing outfits (any part of the arm, leg, or face showing) in public. There are, from what I hear, Christian areas in Saudi that are blocked off from the rest of the public. They can wear regular clothes. My cousin is moving there because her future husband works there. My second cousin is Saudi and Lebanese. Its not completely a bad thing to live under a government with such conditions, it's just a pain sometimes.

[avemaria40]

[quote name='dustthouart' date='Jan 18 2006, 11:39 PM'] Alexander VI, Julius II... 
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[/quote]


Don't even get me started, lol

[Socrates]

[quote name='dandy777' date='Jan 19 2006, 10:29 AM']Don't count too much on that! In my country, abortion is till illegal yet there is a considerable number of women who go abroad mainly to other European countries like England and the Netherlands, where they get it done over there.

What do you mean by state religions? Are you referring to a particular religion that is officially recognised by the country?
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[/quote]
Where are you from, Dandy? Portugal?

[Socrates]

[quote name='dandy777' date='Jan 19 2006, 10:32 AM']It is only when practised properly.
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No, "peaceful" Islam is in conflict to that preached and practiced by Mohammed - who spread Islam by violence and warfare.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 19 2006, 07:23 PM']No, "peaceful" Islam is in conflict to that preached and practiced by Mohammed - who spread Islam by violence and warfare.
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[/quote]

Do unto your neighbor before he can do unto you. And, oh yeah...if you need your neighbor's goat to survive, go ahead & take it from him. If you gotta kill him for it, well, he shouldn't have fought you, eh?

[jezic]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Jan 19 2006, 10:17 AM']at least Islam would not permit rampant homosexuality on TV and in the streets and force it down your throat!

And imagine the lives that would be saved with the banning of abortion!?!?!

Islam is a religion of peace - remember?
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[/quote]

You are right about the homosexuality but instead christian practices would be thwarted regularily. The Church would suffer a huge hit.

But you might not have to wait long. France could nearly do this just around the corner.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Jan 19 2006, 10:17 AM']
And imagine the lives that would be saved with the banning of abortion!?!?!

[/quote]

A bit of the ends justifying the means, eh?

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='dandy777' date='Jan 19 2006, 04:32 PM']It is only when practised properly.
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[/quote]

[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0838636780/ref=sib_rdr_dp/103-6229786-9917422?%5Fencoding=UTF8&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&no=283155&st=books&n=283155"]The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam : From Jihad to Dhimmitude : Seventh-Twentieth Century by Bat Ye'or[/url]

[dustthouart]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Jan 19 2006, 12:17 PM']And imagine the lives that would be saved with the banning of abortion!?!?!
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Imagine the souls that would be lost?

Which is more important: the soul or the body?

And Islamic states persecute and martyr Christians!

Besides many schools of Islam allow abortion up until day 120 of the pregnancy, they believe that the fetus is not human until then. Others allow it until day 40. In fact all the Sunni schools allow abortion of some kind.

Bahrain, for example, allows abortion on demand. The official religion of Bahrain is Islam.

[son_of_angels]

[quote name='musturde' date='Jan 19 2006, 03:29 PM']Look at Saudi Arabia for an example of a Government based on Islam. It's alright... i guess. No drinking, camera phones, revealing outfits (any part of the arm, leg, or face showing) in public. There are, from what I hear, Christian areas in Saudi that are blocked off from the rest of the public. They can wear regular clothes. My cousin is moving there because her future husband works there. My second cousin is Saudi and Lebanese. Its not completely a bad thing to live under a government with such conditions, it's just a pain sometimes.
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[/quote]

Ok, I have a bone to pick with this message. So many Christian women I hear complaining about having to wear a veil or a burka in Muslim nations, but I think the Bible (1 Cor.) is quite clear, that Christian women should be the most modest in a society, not the ones causing trouble! What reward is there, if a woman is punished for being scandalous? But if she is punished for being the most modest, how much greater the reward!

[son_of_angels]

[quote name='dustthouart' date='Jan 18 2006, 09:39 PM']I disagree. Wrong religions are fully as horrible when they're in control. Look at how Afghanistan was under the Taliban.

I don't think the Church should have temporal authority, because it invites corruption. I think all the people in the world should be Catholics, and that politicians and rulers should be driven by Catholic morals. But the Pope as temporal leader, for example... it was a disaster in the Renaissance! Alexander VI, Julius II... 
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[/quote]

But who are YOU to deny the pope any of his claims to authority. HE is our universal shepherd, not the European Parliament, not the President of the United States, not the UN Secretary-General, but the Vicar of the King! This is why groups like the UN and EU are doomed to failure, because they are not designed for universal kingship and authority, nor do they try to derive their splendour from that one Light.

Personally, I feel that the EU's recent activities prove that the pope needs to set up his own European alliance, to defend TRUE human rights and protect the sovereignty of member nations wishing to uphold Catholic morals.