For Those Who Are Discerning Or Discerned Religious Life

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Santa Cruz' timestamp='1305670546' post='2243000']
Pardon my American ignorance. But, I have only seen men in kilts with a bagpipe in hand. I always thought they went together as an outfit? Do men wear kilts even if they are not playing the bagpipes? Perhaps I need to research kilts to gain a better understanding. This is fascinating!
[/quote]

It is a big Scottish tradition to wear the tartan of your family at special occasions, especially weddings. In ancient/medieval times, soldiers would wear the tartan kilt of their families to show which side they were from. I am of Scottish ancestry and we have a tartan pattern that is green and blue. Scots are the big bagpipe players--that's probably why you associate them as such, but you definitely would see more tartan kilts in Scotland without bagpipes than with.

The one thing I have never understood is why men do not wear underwear under the kilts. That drove me crazy.

Here is my fave celebrity kilt photo:

[img]http://justperioddrama.com/EyeCandy/data/media/18/Gerard_Butler_-_Kilts_2009.jpg[/img]

[jkaands]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1305682720' post='2243053']
It is a big Scottish tradition to wear the tartan of your family at special occasions, especially weddings. In ancient/medieval times, soldiers would wear the tartan kilt of their families to show which side they were from. I am of Scottish ancestry and we have a tartan pattern that is green and blue. Scots are the big bagpipe players--that's probably why you associate them as such, but you definitely would see more tartan kilts in Scotland without bagpipes than with.

The one thing I have never understood is why men do not wear underwear under the kilts. That drove me crazy.

Here is my fave celebrity kilt photo:

[img]http://justperioddrama.com/EyeCandy/data/media/18/Gerard_Butler_-_Kilts_2009.jpg[/img]

[/quote]


Looks nice. Longer than usual.

Er...are you sure about the ...underwear thing? Nowadays...? Maybe in the past...

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='jkaands' timestamp='1305683285' post='2243057']
Looks nice. Longer than usual.

Er...are you sure about the ...underwear thing? Nowadays...? Maybe in the past...
[/quote]

Oh, yes. If you do a Google image search on "kilts", you'll see what I'm talking about (though I warn you, some of the photos are graphic). It's a tradition, apparently. Not a very good one, though...
[quote]
Underwear may or may not be worn, as the wearer prefers, although tradition has it that a "true Scotsman" should wear nothing under his kilt. The Scottish Tartans Authority, however, has described the practice as childish and unhygienic.[/quote]

Edited May 18, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae

[Lisa]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1305684531' post='2243067']
Oh, yes. If you do a Google image search on "kilts", you'll see what I'm talking about (though I warn you, some of the photos are graphic). It's a tradition, apparently. Not a very good one, though...

[/quote]

I'm kinda thinking I'll skip the google image search... [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif[/img] Google image search scares me sometimes!

Reading all of these, I find myself nodding "I do that. Yup, I struggle with that too..."
Impatience, pride, a desire to be loved/liked

I'm thinking of starting this:
[font="Arial"][quote] O Jesus! meek and humble of heart,[/font][b][font="Arial"]Hear me.[/font][/b][font="Arial"]
Fromthe desire of being esteemed,[/font][b][font="Arial"]
Deliver me, Jesus.[/font][/b][font="Arial"]From the desire of being loved...
From the desire of being extolled ...
From the desire of being honored ...
From the desire of being praised ...
From the desire of being preferred to others...
From the desire of being consulted ...
From the desire of being approved ...
From the fear of being humiliated ...
Fromthe fear of being despised...
From the fear of suffering rebukes ...
From the fear of being calumniated ...
From the fear of being forgotten ...
From the fear of being ridiculed ...
From the fear of being wronged ...
From the fear of being suspected ...[/font]

[font="Arial"]That others may be loved more than I,[/font][b][font="Arial"]
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.[/font][/b]

[font="Arial"]That others may be esteemed more than I ...
That, in the opinion of the world,
others may increase and I may decrease ...
That others may be chosen and I set aside ...
That others may be praised and I unnoticed ...
That others may be preferred to me in everything...
That others may become holier than I,[/font][font="Arial"]provided that I may become as holy as I should…[/quote][/font]

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1305685209' post='2243072']
I'm kinda thinking I'll skip the google image search... [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif[/img] Google image search scares me sometimes!

Reading all of these, I find myself nodding "I do that. Yup, I struggle with that too..."
Impatience, pride, a desire to be loved/liked

I'm thinking of starting this:
[font="Arial"][/font]
[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't expect to see such graphic pictures. I even have my Safe Search set to "strict", but it still showed stuff I don't wanna see.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='jkaands' timestamp='1305683285' post='2243057']
Looks nice. Longer than usual.

Er...are you sure about the ...underwear thing? Nowadays...? Maybe in the past...
[/quote]

YOU NEED TO SEE THE HAIRY KNEES. Sorry.

My auntie's from NI and at my cousin's wedding, many men wore kilts (or the plaid pantaloons...cheating!). One older guy was so annoyed at this other guy because the kilt was so long! He was discussing how one needs to see the "hairy knees."

It ws funny.

Sorry for hijacking this thread

[LaPetiteSoeur]

As far as problems needed to overcome:

pride (I don't take criticism well, but I'm working on it as it is a process)
slacking. O my goodness, I keep slacking on the Divine Office and I honestly don't know why.
Many other things, but I can't think this early!

[HopefulBride]

Thank you everyone for your openness in answering these questions. I always wondered if I was the only one who worried bout these things and adjusting to life in the convent. Very glad to know that I am not the only one who worries about being charitable toward others.

[Santa Cruz]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1305682720' post='2243053']
It is a big Scottish tradition to wear the tartan of your family at special occasions, especially weddings. In ancient/medieval times, soldiers would wear the tartan kilt of their families to show which side they were from. I am of Scottish ancestry and we have a tartan pattern that is green and blue. Scots are the big bagpipe players--that's probably why you associate them as such, but you definitely would see more tartan kilts in Scotland without bagpipes than with.

The one thing I have never understood is why men do not wear underwear under the kilts. That drove me crazy.

Here is my fave celebrity kilt photo:

[img]http://justperioddrama.com/EyeCandy/data/media/18/Gerard_Butler_-_Kilts_2009.jpg[/img]
[/quote]


Thank you for clarifying! Fascinating...

[Lil'Monster]

this got weird like Max always says

[Catherine Therese]

To the funny half of this thread - I was coping with the men-in-kilt 'shenanigans' until I saw the Gerard Butler pic. Just about fell off my chair. Give a gal some warning before you spring that kind of thing on her!!

To the serious half of this thread - great question! One of the reasons that many orders do such in-depth psych testing prior to accepting applicants is to identify strengths and weaknesses so that they can more effectively assist us in our formation. I suppose it feels just a little bit yukky having to face up to some of these things, but at the same time I feel so ... LOVED. They're not only accepting me into their community. They're taking the time to really understand me and work with me to overcome all the things that create barriers between me and the Lord. What a beautiful thing to do for another person!


My predominant failing is pride. ALL of my other failings stem from this. Like a number of you, I struggle with temper. This temper GENERALLY flares up as a result of any kind of affront to my over-developed sense of 'justice' - i.e. a flawed perspective of truth along with the arrogance to believe that my version of truth is more truthful than the truth. Wacky, ay? But as you can see, it all comes down to pride. Or Impatience - I'm REALLY impatient, but that is generally in response to other people not meeting my expectations and me being proud enough to believe that I am the arbiter of what should and shouldn't happen... once again, pride. Not to mention a MAJOR lack of love in a LIVED way. Its not that I don't love people. But my actions don't always reflect that and this disunity between my will and my intellect (a.k.a. the fallen human condition) really bugs me!

I'm also a MAJOR control freak. Which arises from a lack of trust. Which arises from the pride that makes a person think that they can rely on themselves more than they can rely on God.

I struggle with the full spectrum of human failings just like anyone. But when it comes down to the key weakness, the one that pervades every evil act I commit? Definitely pride. Ugh.

Having said all of that, and very conscious of the need to constantly cooperate with God's grace as He ever-so-slowly-but-surely roots out these faults by working towards genuine virtue, I find that I'm not discouraged at all! I mean, with the perfect mercy of Our Risen Lord, who works ALL things together for the good of those who love Him, I can rejoice that these failings can be the means by which I can grow in relationship with God!

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Catherine Therese' timestamp='1305733121' post='2243232']
To the funny half of this thread - I was coping with the men-in-kilt 'shenanigans' until I saw the Gerard Butler pic. Just about fell off my chair. Give a gal some warning before you spring that kind of thing on her!!
[/quote]



I think I can safely add Gerard Butler to my list of weaknesses, too. He is a hunk!

ETA: I do wish he'd cut out the smoking, though.

Edited May 18, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae

[Lil'Monster]

oh guys i dont know what to do with ya cuz u r so funny hahahaha lol

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1305733216' post='2243233']


I think I can safely add Gerard Butler to my list of weaknesses, too. He is a hunk!

ETA: I do wish he'd cut out the smoking, though.
[/quote]

Any man who loves his mum is tops with me.

[color="#FF0000"]Warning: hunky man in picture below!
[/color]
[spoiler][img]http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/gerard-butler-lara-croft-tomb-raider-the-cradle-of-life-premiere-weGPjV.jpg[/img][/spoiler]

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1305726027' post='2243165']
Thank you everyone for your openness in answering these questions. I always wondered if I was the only one who worried bout these things and adjusting to life in the convent. Very glad to know that I am not the only one who worries about being charitable toward others.
[/quote]

It's definitely been something on my mind and heart lately as well.

Like many others, one of my biggest faults is vanity. Not necessarily physical vanity. But emotional vanity. I have an [i]intense[/i] desire to please and to impress. To be liked. To be thought well of. To be seen as more intelligent/holy/etc. To be preferred. To be praised. Heck, I should just repost the litany of humility that someone already posted:

[quote]
O Jesus! meek and humble of heart,Hear me.
From the desire of being esteemed,
Deliver me, Jesus.From the desire of being loved...
From the desire of being extolled ...
From the desire of being honored ...
From the desire of being praised ...
From the desire of being preferred to others...
From the desire of being consulted ...
From the desire of being approved ...
From the fear of being humiliated ...
Fromthe fear of being despised...
From the fear of suffering rebukes ...
From the fear of being calumniated ...
From the fear of being forgotten ...
From the fear of being ridiculed ...
From the fear of being wronged ...
From the fear of being suspected ...

That others may be loved more than I,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

That others may be esteemed more than I ...
That, in the opinion of the world,
others may increase and I may decrease ...
That others may be chosen and I set aside ...
That others may be praised and I unnoticed ...
That others may be preferred to me in everything...
That others may become holier than I,provided that I may become as holy as I should…[/quote]

So there's all of that.

I'm afraid that I will see religious life and growth in the virtues and growth in the spiritual life as something to achieve rather than something to be received. I mean, obviously there's human effort. But my fault is that I often rely mostly on human effort and then when that runs short, turn to grace. In practice, human effort manages to be esteemed higher than grace. I struggle so much in allowing my human effort to be subordinated to grace. To allow grace to fuel the human effort.

I'm afraid that my ego and self-love will increase in the religious life, rather than decrease. And that I won't even see it happening. That I'll be deceived into thinking I'm living piously.

I'm afraid of myself.

And on the flip side of that coin, I'm afraid that when/if my ego and self-love is wounded, I will lack the strength required to fully allow it to be squashed. That I will wiggle and squirm. That I will not persevere.

[Catherine Therese]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1305734210' post='2243238']
It's definitely been something on my mind and heart lately as well.

Like many others, one of my biggest faults is vanity. Not necessarily physical vanity. But emotional vanity. I have an [i]intense[/i] desire to please and to impress. To be liked. To be thought well of. To be seen as more intelligent/holy/etc. To be preferred. To be praised. Heck, I should just repost the litany of humility that someone already posted:

<snip>

So there's all of that.

I'm afraid that I will see religious life and growth in the virtues and growth in the spiritual life as something to achieve rather than something to be received. I mean, obviously there's human effort. But my fault is that I often rely mostly on human effort and then when that runs short, turn to grace. In practice, human effort manages to be esteemed higher than grace. I struggle so much in allowing my human effort to be subordinated to grace. To allow grace to fuel the human effort.

I'm afraid that my ego and self-love will increase in the religious life, rather than decrease. And that I won't even see it happening. That I'll be deceived into thinking I'm living piously.

I'm afraid of myself.

And on the flip side of that coin, I'm afraid that when/if my ego and self-love is wounded, I will lack the strength required to fully allow it to be squashed. That I will wiggle and squirm. That I will not persevere.
[/quote]



WOW - me too!
Not that I'm pleased you're struggling with this, but I AM glad I'm not the only one, that its... 'normal' to have all the fears you mentioned above.

Not sure that relief really solves anything, though. Words of wisdom, anyone?

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1305734210' post='2243238']
[b]I'm afraid that my ego and self-love will increase in the religious life, rather than decrease. And that I won't even see it happening. That I'll be deceived into thinking I'm living piously. [/b]

I'm afraid of myself.

And on the flip side of that coin, I'm afraid that when/if my ego and self-love is wounded, I will lack the strength required to fully allow it to be squashed. That I will wiggle and squirm. That I will not persevere.
[/quote]

Dude, you need to stop reading my mind. The bolded part is one of my BIGGEST fears.

I am also so afraid of developing a false sense of humility....

Edited May 18, 2011 by HopefulBride

[SoonerCatholic]

Regarding kilts: Those remind me of the uniform skirts I wore in high school. Well, ours had more pleats and were generally worn shorter, but we did joke about calling them kilts...

Regarding my biggest fault:

Hmm...I can relate to many of these on here, pride, vanity, sloth, etc. I also think I fear not being able to persevere and not fitting in with the community. Really, it's such a huge leap, a huge amount of trust...

[SoonerCatholic]

Regarding kilts: Those remind me of the uniform skirts I wore in high school. Well, ours had more pleats and were generally worn shorter, but we did joke about calling them kilts...

Regarding my biggest fault:

Hmm...I can relate to many of these on here, pride, vanity, sloth, etc. I also think I fear not being able to persevere and not fitting in with the community. Really, it's such a huge leap, a huge amount of trust...