Have You Ever Seen The Movie "a Nun's Story"?

[Cherie]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1306256565' post='2245400']
Back pre V2 and for many even years after V2, one went into religious life with romantic notions totally unprepared for the daily realities one was going to have to handle. One knew almost nothing about life inside a convent or monastery - not like today. Things have changed nowadays and they really did need to change. My experience is that one went in blind, absolutely blind almost as to the realities of life within a convent or monastery. Compared to what we knew, it is amazing, truly amazing, of just how much information about life inside convent and monastery is available. It is wonderful for those considering religious life especially.

I picked up this link from the Catholic Answers thread and gives some good background on Sr.Luke from her actual life, especially after she left religious life:

[url="http://www.zoefairbairns.co.uk/nunsstory.htm"]http://www.zoefairba...k/nunsstory.htm[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks for that article; how interesting!!

[Antigonos]

I both saw the movie and read the book and it impressed me tremendously, since at the time I already knew I would become a nurse. Sr. Luke is based on Marie Louise Habets, who was a Sister of Charity of Jesus and Mary for 17 years although she stressed that the book was "a work of fiction". The religious life of the 1920s up to and through the Second World War was very different from that of today. For one thing, in Europe of the time the vast majority of nurses were nuns [which is why nurses in the UK and Europe are called Sister to this day]. Sr. Luke, although a very devout Catholic, really entered the religious life to be a nurse. Reverend Mother Emmanuel says to her at the end "you entered the convent to be a nun, not a nurse" but by that time Sr. Luke had realized she simply could not obey conflicting requirements any more. There were many other differences from the present, such as the class of postulants being 40 in number, and acceptance was based on a simple interview [this from the book]. New groups entered every three months, and the mother house itself contained more than 200 sisters. The sisters were not encouraged to have any relationship with one another and were instructed to never touch one another. Complete detachment was stressed, and obedience was extended to such things as asking permission to have a glass of water between meals [that must have kept the superiors busy!] In the book Sr. Luke notes that if she had been able to "compare notes" with other postulants it might have aided her formation, but there was no opportunity for this -- and postulants and junior professed did not even talk to the solemnly professed except in matters of work. The Nashville Dominicans seem to have the lifestyle most similar, from what I've seen, in the sense of admitting groups of postulants instead of one at a time, and having a large mother house for formation.

Amazingly, the Catholic Church was not happy at all that the film was made, although it actually resulted in a wave of vocations, and was the most popular film Audrey Hepburn ever made. A superior of Habets', whose name in religion was Sister Mary Xavierine, called the film "a desecration". At the time, laicization was extremely difficult. [I was suprised, at first, at the number of Phatmassers who have made repeated attempts to enter religious life. In the book, Sr. Luke has to promise, when she leaves, that she "will never wear the habit of religion again" and I thought this was usual]

Habets met Katherine Hulme after the war ended; she was nursing in a refugee camp called Wildflecken, and the two of them lived together for the rest of their lives. She convinced Hulme, a lawyer by profession, to convert to Catholicism, but Habets never really adjusted to secular life, suffering from episodes of depression.

The film, btw, is available on DVD.

[CatherineM]

I heard Hume speak at a conference in Phoenix decades ago. I won't repeat what she said here because last time I did, it started quite a fight. I found the discussion of post war refugee camps very interesting.

[EWIE]

[size="4"][/size][font="Book Antiqua"][/font][quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1306249054' post='2245371']
Many times over the years. The first time when I was a teenager, and had the romantic notion that she would go off to the Congo after the war and marry the doctor. Reality was much more disappointing.
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[b]Hello SMC, back from the Novice Mistresses meeting?[/b]

[vee]

[quote name='EWIE' timestamp='1306268689' post='2245455']


[b]Hello SMC, back from the Novice Mistresses meeting?[/b]
[/quote]

Wrong person.

[tinytherese]

I've seen the film and I see it as showing the human aspect of religious life--how superiors make mistakes too and the struggles that sisters and nuns go throughout their lives.

I'm glad that communities are not nearly that strict anymore, especially in regards to forming friendships amongst the sisters. I don't think that I would even last two weeks in an environment like that. It seems too cold, unloving, and scrupulous. Sr. Luke didn't appear to be prideful at all. The community should have celebrated her talents and praised God for having her instead of catering to that one sister who may have been insecure or jealous of her.

I remember watching part of the film one time years before seeing the whole thing and was horrified by the rigid community, especially the naming of faults seen. I've had the tendency over the years to be scrupulous and if i had been in that community, that would have only made that tendency worse.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='EWIE' timestamp='1306268689' post='2245455']
[size="4"][/size][font="Book Antiqua"][/font]

[b]Hello SMC, back from the Novice Mistresses meeting?[/b]
[/quote]


lol Catherine M and SMC ... that would be an entertaining Venn Diagram.


I have never seen the movie, but I've perused the book. I never put too much stock in tales told by Hollywood.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1306232681' post='2245312']
..........and didn't Audrey Heburn make an absolutely beautiful nun! Her transformation after her clothing was profound - but then I think every postulant has a profound transformation when clothed in the habit. They seem to go from a person of this world dressed in black often, into a person that is definitely not of this world - a companion of angels. That is to appearances. And doesn't Peter Finch act brilliantly the athiest and totally outspoken, but brilliant, work-a-holic docotor. Excellent casting! Were any acting awards handed out?
[/quote]

The acting was very good; the roles the actors and actresses were playing were vastly different from their everyday lives and they were excellent.

The movie, while the ending makes me cry (And I don't think Sr. Luke really discerned her calling to the convent, just the nursing), is very informative on the history of religious life.

Do you still have a question??

[bmb144]

I did an assignment on the book and the movie last semester, so I own both.

[CatherineM]

I wonder if in the 20's they allowed lay nurses to go to the Congo? That might explain why she didn't just become a nurse rather than entering.

[DeoOptimoMaximo]

[quote name='Catherine Therese' timestamp='1306217566' post='2245286']
I saw it last year, not long after I arrived at my complete 'yes'.

I'm afraid that, whilst I enjoyed most of it, the end was profoundly upsetting for me. It really troubled me that a fully professed sister who had been living her spousal relationship with Christ for some 20 years could walk away from that vow. (She got a dispensation, but it still troubled me.)

Actually upon reflection I think the film painted her life as very much a well-intentioned but human endeavour, rather than a human response to a Divine call. So I suppose its not all that suprising that she left. Nevertheless, it was still upsetting.
[/quote]


I loved the movie when I watched it this past semester at the seminary, but the ending blew me away! I still can't believe she left!!!! I remember the feelings of pain sadness, and anger that washed over me, when I saw her walk out the door! It reminded me of all those who left during the 60's-70's.

Still a beautiful movie, though...

[the171]

ALRIGHT. lol my question is pertaining to detatchment. I remember (ive seen this movie thousands of times. i love audrey h.'s skillz the the art of acting) that there was, not only physical detachment, but detatchment from memories. i remember a certain scene when she was still in the tree house recovering and one of the sisters walked in and started talking about how she had a tree house like this when she was younger, but she stopped herself. also, when sr.luke was in formation and they were talking about detatching from memories, etc.

the question is in religious life do you detatch from memories to the point of completely shunning them from your mind like we see in the scene in the tree house? if so, HOW? i mean the human mind never forgets anything. it just pushes it to the side for a bit. idk. i'm a bit confused.

[Yaatee]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1306291462' post='2245600']
ALRIGHT. lol my question is pertaining to detachment. I remember (i've seen this movie thousands of times. i love Audrey h.'s skills the the art of acting) that there was, not only physical detachment, but detachment from memories. i remember a certain scene when she was still in the tree house recovering and one of the sisters walked in and started talking about how she had a tree house like this when she was younger, but she stopped herself. also, when sr.luke was in formation and they were talking about detaching from memories, etc.

the question is in religious life do you detach from memories to the point of completely shunning them from your mind like we see in the scene in the tree house? if so, HOW? i mean the human mind never forgets anything. it just pushes it to the side for a bit. idk. i'm a bit confused.
[/quote]

I think that it was [i]talking [/i]about the memories, not thinking about them. I don't know if this is enforced now.

Some people in formation might reminisce about skiing in Switzerland or walking the Great Wall of China, or other memories of a life of wealth and privilege which Sr. Luke had--for example.

[Antigonos]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1306291462' post='2245600']
ALRIGHT. lol my question is pertaining to detatchment. I remember (ive seen this movie thousands of times. i love audrey h.'s skillz the the art of acting) that there was, not only physical detachment, but detatchment from memories. i remember a certain scene when she was still in the tree house recovering and one of the sisters walked in and started talking about how she had a tree house like this when she was younger, but she stopped herself. also, when sr.luke was in formation and they were talking about detatching from memories, etc.

the question is in religious life do you detatch from memories to the point of completely shunning them from your mind like we see in the scene in the tree house? if so, HOW? i mean the human mind never forgets anything. it just pushes it to the side for a bit. idk. i'm a bit confused.
[/quote]


I think the emphasis on "interior silence" in order to commune with God is related to this. In the book, Sr. Luke, whose father is a doctor, notes at this point that one of her professors, when teaching anatomy and physiology, stated that "even a saint" cannot say an Ave Maria without SOME association creeping in. Memories of a previous life obviously would be a distraction, but IMO it is unrealistic to think that they can be entirely abolished. In another part of the book, it is noted that, in [to quote the book] a "mixed order" -- by which I assume active/contemplative is meant, getting a correct balance between the two aspects is very difficult.

Sr. Luke, IMO, is excessively scrupulous in trying to live the Rule. Various superiors tell her so: in the film, the Mother at the insane asylum tells her "to bend or she will break", and Sr. Luke herself says she has an "all or nothing" personality. Her main battles seem not to be with pride, but with obedience, as defined by her community. Interestingly, the community still exists, based in Belgium. A picture of a recent Mother Superior shows a woman in what might be a partial habit, but possibly simply a dark business suit, so it seems that they have radically reformed the externals, at least, since V2.

[BarbTherese]

[quote][b]Quoting Antigonas Post #22[/b]: Amazingly, the Catholic Church was not happy at all that the film was made, although it actually resulted in a wave of vocations, and was the most popular film Audrey Hepburn ever made. A superior of Habets', whose name in religion was Sister Mary Xavierine, called the film "a desecration". At the time, laicization was extremely difficult. [I was suprised, at first, at the number of Phatmassers who have made repeated attempts to enter religious life. In the book, Sr. Luke has to promise, when she leaves, that she "will never wear the habit of religion again" and I thought this was usual][/quote]

It is not surprising possibly that The Church was not happy about the life - it was very revealing of convent life both objectiveky and from a personal angle in some the various characters, noteably of course, Sr. Luke (Audrey Hepburn). I was in my young teens at the time I saw it and until I saw it although I wanted to enter monastic life, knew nothing at all really about the life. "The Nun's Story" filled me in on much I then thought. I certainly was not deterred from entering the life through seeing the movie - I was more delighted about it than ever. I regarded Sr Luke with a degree of horror that she could enter and be professed and then leave. All that was depicted in the movie, in my young years, delighted my romantic heart and concepts. I tended to ponder the struggles Sr Luke had with that young, quite immature, romantic heart.
With number of vocations, I think it is a question not of how many who enter, but how many who enter proceed to final vows.
I think that possibly and my thoughts only, that The Church may not have been happy about the movie because it was so revealing on different levels about religious life and at a time when it was still a very much hidden life from public view, even Catholic view - and even in the active life and in all aspects of the life -and also it was about a religious who left the life and was laicized. I am not sure, but I think it came out just prior to V2.

[quote][u]Quoting Antigonas[/u] - Sr. Luke, IMO, is excessively scrupulous in trying to live the Rule. Various superiors tell her so: in the film, the Mother at the insane asylum tells her "to bend or she will break", and Sr. Luke herself says she has an "all or nothing" personality. Her main battles seem not to be with pride, but with obedience, as defined by her community. Interestingly, the community still exists, based in Belgium. A picture of a recent Mother Superior shows a woman in what might be a partial habit, but possibly simply a dark business suit, so it seems that they have radically reformed the externals, at least, since V2.[/quote]

There used to be in religious life sometimes what was commonly known as a"Living Rule" and it was said that if theRule was ever destroyed, one could re-write it by observing the behaviour of religious that were Living Rules. To be a living rule, was a compliment in religious life and to be one was a rarity, it was almost regarded as a type of sainthood. I think that in religious life, if you do not learn to bend now and then and be loving and accepting of others with all and any faults and foibles, rather than despite same - if you cannot be accepting of yourself with your faults and foibles, then religious life will be hard going for oneself and you just might make it hard going on others. Be a little painful to live with day in and day out. If one cannot bend, then I think a sense of humour and the funny may go out the window. And to live with oneself and others, one needs a sense of humour and the funny. I like to think that I might have made a good and usefu,lat times anyway, Carmelite. St. Teresa wrote in her rule that no games were to be played at recreation. That The Lord would send amusing sisters into the community to provide entertainment at recreation. I guess they could have put me in a closet and taken me out only at recreation

[quote]the question is in religious life do you detatch from memories to the point of completely shunning them from your mind like we see in the scene in the tree house? if so, HOW? i mean the human mind never forgets anything. it just pushes it to the side for a bit. idk. i'm a bit confused.[/quote]
Religious life way back then really did need an overhaul. After all, one can be very wealthy and yet be detached from wealth. Detachment has a positive aspect that is to cling to God. It doesn't mean that one has nothing, or doesn't necessarily mean that, detachment means that one's affections are not invested fully in whatever, rather in God and His Will. In religious life way back then -there were lots of strange concepts and practises and over emphasis on negatives - to my way of thinking. Some practices no one knew any longer why things were done that way and sometimes quite almost illogical things (to my mind again) - it was tradition and tradition never seemed to need areason. It was its own reason. It simply was and one obeyed.

Edited May 25, 2011 by BarbaraTherese

[Cherie]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1306291462' post='2245600']
the question is in religious life do you detatch from memories to the point of completely shunning them from your mind like we see in the scene in the tree house? if so, HOW? i mean the human mind never forgets anything. it just pushes it to the side for a bit. idk. i'm a bit confused.
[/quote]

I agree with Yaatee; the point was not so much [i]thinking[/i] about memories, but talking about them. I am sure most religious communities do not practice this to the degree shown in the movie anymore.

[Nunsense]

Communities vary greatly on this matter of memories. At two Carmels, we discussed our past quite freely and shared our interests with each other. At the other two, we were told not to talk about our past, and at the strictest one, during Recreation we were not to discuss our past, our past jobs or our current work with each other. We were also not to discuss dreams or food preferences. One of the elderly nuns had been in the army and I was fascinated but she never told me this, I heard about it from another sister - and I have no idea how she found out! At that convent, our conversations consisted of discussing the weather, animals we had seen recently (birds mainly) or topics of general interest that were introduced by the Prioress, such as the upcoming visit by the relics of St Therese or some other event that she told us about. I often slipped up and started to talk about something from my past, but would catch myself and stop.

But at the other Carmels, we shared our lives and our family stories, and at Christmas we even visited each other in our cells and showed each other photos of our family that they had sent to us during the year. This made us feel very much like an extended family as one person's family became the community's family too. On my clothing day, my Novice Mistress had even composed a song for me, all about things I liked such as horses and Diet Coke, set to the tune of Home on the Range, and a group of the sisters sang it for me. They wouldn't have known about any of this if I hadn't discussed my past and my preferences!

As to whether or not all memories can be stopped voluntarily... there is an old Zen philosophy that if you want to make a person think of a monkey, tell him he must not think of a monkey. Telling a person that they can't have any memories only makes that harder. I think the trick to avoid thinking about memories (for example, unpleasant ones) is not to make the effort to stop thinking, but to think of something else. If I find my mind wandering in places I dont' want it to go then I start thinking about Jesus or saying a short prayer over and over again. If the mind is busy with one thought, it can't really hold onto another one, even though thoughts are so fast that it seems like we might hold two conflicting thoughts at the same time - they really are sequential. The Jesus Prayer is a good one to use, but so is the Hail Mary or Hail Holy Queen, or even humming a favourite hymn!

[Antigonos]

The movie came out in 1959. In the "old days" I guess the numbers who progressed to solemn or final profession was rather the way it was when I was in nursing school -- it was thought perfectly acceptable that a third would drop out, sometimes even more. One did not have to have especially high academic status to enter nursing school. But it took BOTH brains and brawn to remain, and not all applicants [probationers we were called] had both. <BR><BR>But in those days, especially in Catholic countries, if one wanted to enter either teaching or nursing, you almost HAD to be in a religious order. We forget just how recent the "feminist revolution" is. Even Oxford and Cambridge, which had women's colleges did not award their graduates degrees until the 1930s, even though they studied the same curriculum and passed the same exams as men.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Antigonos

[MargaretTeresa]

I have seen most of it. Wonderful movie...although I'd like to bash that Mother over the head a la DS and the Canadienne....

[the171]

Thank you all very much. All of your answers have really explained detatchment to me. Especially nunsense because I'm discerning Carmel. I'm actually discerning with a Carmel in my state that sounds more like the ones you described first. They definitely emphasize the family aspect of Carmel. Thank you all once again.

Benedicite