The Nuns' Story - A Hypothetical

[AccountDeleted]

I think she never really identified with herself as a sister of her community as much as she identified with herself as a nurse, and that's why she became such a workaholic. As someone else posted here, it was a series of events that led to her entering the convent (her father's refusal to let her marry the man she wanted to, her wanting to be a nurse etc) but in those days I don't think the emphasis was so much on the interior calling as the fact that, well, if you aren't going to get married, you should enter a convent! And once there, she really just focused more on being a nurse than a nun. She did make efforts though, especially when she was not allowed to go straight to the Congo but had to go work in the mental hospital instead, while the sister who hadn't passed her exams as highly as she did, got to go to the Congo! According to the book, she did try to surrender this, but of course, I'm sure in the back of her mind was the thought that if she just stuck it out, sooner or later they would send her to the Congo because they wouldn't want to waste her training in Tropical Nursing!

And from what I have read about her, she always felt that she had been the one who failed, not the convent, so that did indicate a certain amount of humility in my opinion. Even though she must have passed on the stories to Kathryn Hulme about the tough times, she didn't blame the others for her failure to make it as a religious. It was sad for her I think.

[GraceUk]

I got the feeling that she in a way really wanted to stay. Perhaps if she had been sent back to the missions she would have. But I got the feeling that the real end of the line was the start of the war. And her father was killed by bombs. Not sure if this actually happened in real life. But she couldn't bring herself to love the enemy. And this was also caught up with obedience as the Superior General had said she did not want her nuns to be involved in any kind of ''war activity' but Sister Luke hid this pilot in a side room. Who was on the run from the Germans. But I must say I probably would have done the same thing myself if I had been brave enough. She did seem to set incredibly high standards for herself though.

[Sister Marie]

Could it be that this tension between her being a nurse and being a religious sister is more of a contextual tension between apostolic religious life and monastic religious life in that time period? I haven't seen the movie, however, some practices mentioned - like obeying the bell - are very monastic and most apostolic communities at that time followed that kind of model even though it wasn't quite particular to their way of life. I don't mean apostolic in the sense that the sisters are not cloistered or have no ministry. I mean that some communities are called forth by the Holy Spirit to live a primarily apostolic life - the purpose being the sanctification of the members and the building of the Kingdom on Earth through a particular ministry; whereas (and I am not a monastic so I might not say this correctly), a more monastic life seems to prize sanctification of the members through and with an intensely communal life and the building up of the Kingdom of God through the prayers of the community. In the apostolic religious life, the ministry is essential - not primary - to the sanctification of the members of the institute and the Kingdom of God. In a more monastic sense, the ministry is secondary.

I see the problem being that apostolic religious are trying to conform to and build upon virtue and practice in ways that are not practical to their way of life. Prayer and community are essential to apostolic religious life and must be safeguarded but not through the same practices - ringing the bell, waking up at the same time, particular hygiene habits... In my own experience, I am a sister first - then a teacher. There is no question that "being" is more important than "doing." However - I know that God has given me the charism of my community for my own salvation and for the salvation of others. The teaching is a secondary essential. I don't know if that makes sense because I'm trying to put words onto something that I know in my heart but haven't tried to describe before, haha.

[BarbTherese]

In the pre V2 days and the era of Sr. Luke, well pre V2 for her, and her entry into religious life, as with the seminary and male religious communities, there really was no discerning per se. If you communicted your were considering religious life to a religious making enquiries about the life (and my experience only and of some I know) you could pretty much find yourself in religious life. There was no leaving one religious family because it didn't 'fit' and try another, at least as a common event. Nor was there any live-ins. Unheard of in my day. Once in religious life, it really was a disgrace in the Catholic sense to leave the life. I think quite a few struggled and struggled in religious life because they had the impression that to leave the life had something of disgrace about it and it did except probably for isolated exceptions. To leave, was almost a challenge to Faith itself and for some it was and when I leflt, I descended into deep depression and a sense of abandonment and due to what was said to me when I decided to leave. Consequences of all this, and my thoughts only, were that there were probably quite a few to many (going by the great exodus from religious life and the priesthood which I think happened in the very late 1950's to early 1960's, unsure) who really did not have a vocation and had lived a tension filled and unhappy life in religious life or the priesthood but struggled on rather than leave, face disgrace and a wrongful fear that somehow they were compromising Faith itself.

These were the days of Sr Luke.

In my own days and as a far too young teenager, I was really struggling and had been assigned to the kitchen with a professed sister who had a reputation for holiness in the community - and she was very holy to my mind. She did not talk much at all, if that. She must have become aware that I was really struggling and her verbatum words right out the blue as I was peeling potatoes were, which I will never forget : "The first 25 years are the hardest, then you just long for death". She then lapsed into silence again as I dealt with shock. Almost a lifetime later, I wonder just how many back in those days had that type of struggle and life. I also discovered many years later, that I did not have the qualifications for that religious order and why they accepted me to this day I do not know except that I now realize that way back then, you could visit to find about about a religious order and you just might find yourself a member of it before you had time to think, especially if you were young and quite immature. I probably would have never left if our priest confessor had not suggested that I do leave and with his personal recommendation to another religious order as my introduction to that Order, to which he was also very close. He had been my parish priest for a few years during my childhood, he had known me very well, and known my family well. Religious life back then really did need a major overhaul and religious orders needed to be far more discerning and certainly more detached with enquirers and the theology of vocation and religious life developed, applied and understood - and this has happened and is ongoing perhaps with new insights. But in the days of Sr Luke those renewals were quite a few years in the future. I don't think Sr Luke had a vocation to religious life while she was called to nursing - her life has proved this I think. Insofar as I know and that's not much at all, she did not question after she left that she had done what was right for herself in leaving, her Faith remained strong, and she continued as a nurse.

The opportunities available to young women today to be very discerning about religious life, to have all their questions answered, to have some experience and real insight and experience of the life before making a decision for or against. To even enter a community and then leave and try another perhaps a couple of times was absolutely unheard of in the days of Sr Luke. A nun I know when we were talking about the old days and today in religious life (she has lived both) stated(verbatum) "It has never been so good in religious life as it is today." Sr Luke lived in a different era - a totally different era and in a way of life that was desperately in need of renewal and chage in almost every aspect. Her way of life in religious life is so diametrically opposed to life today in many religious orders (certainly religious orders with an active ministry), there is no comparison - even the discerning journey and enquiring stage we experience today did not exist in her day.

I[quote] I see the problem being that apostolic religious are trying to conform to and build upon virtue and practice in ways that are not practical to their way of life. Prayer and community are essential to apostolic religious life and must be safeguarded but not through the same practices - ringing the bell, waking up at the same time, particular hygiene habits... In my own experience, I am a sister first - then a teacher. There is no question that "being" is more important than "doing." However - I know that God has given me the charism of my community for my own salvation and for the salvation of others. The teaching is a secondary essential. I[/quote]

I agree with you, Sister - and think I can hear what you are saying. Religious life is a call to "be" and that "be" needs initial and ongoing formation - and it is a call to " be" within that charism and ministry that is gifted to the Order. When an active religious is involved in her ministry she is being a certain kind of person in that ministry. She is being as she goes about what she is doing. As we all are ideally. This may mean that while the essentials of religious life are retained. valued and cherished, they are not necessarily expressed as in monastic life. Religious life is a gift to The Church as is their charism. Too often I think and it can happen with laity too, we try to be monastics when our vocation is not a vocation and call to live like a monastic meaning a monastic in monastic life. Not always anyway and it is "the exceptions that prove the rule". If God wanted us monastics living in monastic life, then in monasteries we would be - again except for some exceptions that prove the rule. To be a monastic, one needs a very specific type of life and what is necessary to support that specific type of life - and first of all that asks a monastery and what makes a monastery. Again, there may be exceptions and these will prove the rule, simply because they are exceptions and not common.

God bless - Barb

[AccountDeleted]

Now is it co-incidence that The Nun's Story just happens to be on TV this Sunday afternoon? I don't usually turn on the generator in the daytime, but I might just do it to watch this again - lol.

Edited May 27, 2011 by nunsense

[BarbTherese]

You seem to be posting into this thread, nunsense - but your posts are not appearing.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1319947403' post='2328825']
You seem to be posting into this thread, nunsense - but your posts are not appearing.
[/quote]


No, Barb - with a poll, anytime someone fills out the poll, it is relisted again, but if that person doesn't make a post as well, then the last poster is listed... hence my name will appear until someone posts after me (not just completes the poll). I could have ignored this and then you would be the last poster forever, but I thought you deserved an answer - this happens a lot with polls!

[BarbTherese]

Thanks, nunsense. I thought that we might be having one of those 'strange and funny' days on Phatmass - like that day we had "talk like a pirate" and I just could not figure what on earth was going on and despite paying for Norton protection, thought I had a virus or something . Now I am the wiser..............ummmm I think........me olde (very old!) memory is like the proverbial sieve! I really dig these smileys on Phatmass!

Thanks again .............Barb

[maximillion]

Wiki:

[i][b]The Nun's Story[/b][/i] is the title of a 1956 novel by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Hulme"]Kathryn Hulme[/url].
Hulme wrote the book based partly upon the experiences of her friend, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets"]Marie Louise Habets[/url] of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisters_of_Charity_of_Jesus_and_Mary"]Sisters of Charity of Jesus and Mary[/url], a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium"]Belgian[/url] nurse and an ex-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nun"]nun[/url] (it is often erroneously stated that the book was based upon Hulme's own experiences). The lead character of the book, Sister Luke (pre-convent name Gabrielle Van Der Mal), finds her faith tested in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa"]Africa[/url] where she finds herself at odds with headstrong Dr. Fortunati, operator of a remote [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Congo"]Congo[/url] hospital, with whom she gradually builds respect, and again during [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II"]World War II[/url], when she is ordered not to take sides. Ultimately, Sister Luke is forced to decide whether to remain in the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent"]convent[/url] or return to the outside world.
Gabrielle/Sister Luke is stretched between her desire to be faithful to the rule of her congregation and her desire to be a nurse. As a nun she must remove all vestiges of "Gabrielle Van Der Mal" and sublimate herself into the devoted bride of Christ. As a nun there is no room for her personal desires and aspirations. Ultimately, the conflict between her devotion to the Church and the nursing profession, juxtaposed with her passionate Belgian patriotism and her love of her father (killed by Nazi fighter planes while treating wounded) bring her to an impasse, which serves as the dénouement of the novel.

I said No, No and No.

I think it is about pride, in this case spiritual and intellectual pride on the part of Sr Luke, and quite a few of the others involved. It is also about the questionable practices you have all mentioned and the fact that all of us are human, Sr Luke as well as her Superior. What struck me in the film is that we see Sr Luke leave, whereas we presume the Superior retained her vocation. Who is it that ought to have left? The Superior missed the opportunity for bringing about a true acknowledgement of the pride involved, and this pride (in Sr Luke) was continued in the Congo because of how Sr Luke was viewed, and allowed to sacrifice everything, including her health.
I find it interesting that Katherine Hulme chose the experiences of Marie Louise Haberts on which to base a book about Pride.............

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1319966599' post='2328907']
Wiki:

[i][b]The Nun's Story[/b][/i] is the title of a 1956 novel by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Hulme"]Kathryn Hulme[/url].
Hulme wrote the book based partly upon the experiences of her friend, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets"]Marie Louise Habets[/url] of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisters_of_Charity_of_Jesus_and_Mary"]Sisters of Charity of Jesus and Mary[/url], a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium"]Belgian[/url] nurse and an ex-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nun"]nun[/url] (it is often erroneously stated that the book was based upon Hulme's own experiences). The lead character of the book, Sister Luke (pre-convent name Gabrielle Van Der Mal), finds her faith tested in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa"]Africa[/url] where she finds herself at odds with headstrong Dr. Fortunati, operator of a remote [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Congo"]Congo[/url] hospital, with whom she gradually builds respect, and again during [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II"]World War II[/url], when she is ordered not to take sides. Ultimately, Sister Luke is forced to decide whether to remain in the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent"]convent[/url] or return to the outside world.
Gabrielle/Sister Luke is stretched between her desire to be faithful to the rule of her congregation and her desire to be a nurse. As a nun she must remove all vestiges of "Gabrielle Van Der Mal" and sublimate herself into the devoted bride of Christ. As a nun there is no room for her personal desires and aspirations. Ultimately, the conflict between her devotion to the Church and the nursing profession, juxtaposed with her passionate Belgian patriotism and her love of her father (killed by Nazi fighter planes while treating wounded) bring her to an impasse, which serves as the dénouement of the novel.

I said No, No and No.

I think it is about pride, in this case spiritual and intellectual pride on the part of Sr Luke, and quite a few of the others involved. It is also about the questionable practices you have all mentioned and the fact that all of us are human, Sr Luke as well as her Superior. What struck me in the film is that we see Sr Luke leave, whereas we presume the Superior retained her vocation. Who is it that ought to have left? The Superior missed the opportunity for bringing about a true acknowledgement of the pride involved, and this pride (in Sr Luke) was continued in the Congo because of how Sr Luke was viewed, and allowed to sacrifice everything, including her health.
I find it interesting that Katherine Hulme chose the experiences of Marie Louise Haberts on which to base a book about Pride.............
[/quote]


Did you actually read the book? It was a very heart rending story about a woman's stuggle to live a life called by two vocations in conflict with each other - that of a nun and that of a nurse - especially during a time of war - which is when she left the convent. Saying it is only about pride is a simplistic interpretation based on a Hollywood adaptation of the original story.

As for the 'questionable practices' involved, we must remember that this convent was pre Vat 2 and followed tradtitions that would be perceived as questionable today but which were standard in many convents at the time. Of course there were individual instances of pride being involved, as there are with any human beings, but that was not the only focus of the book, nor of the movie in my opinion. Sr Luke, in the movie, certainly thought that pride was her main obstacle but I think she was also very harsh on herself given her conflicting vocations. Her superior even told her that this was the problem when she asked her if she entered the convent to be a nun or a nurse... these two vocations were at war within her.

Katherine Hulme had great respect for Mary Louise Haberts and tried to present the interior struggles as honestly as possible. They were friends for life. And Habets always felt like a failure for leaving - hardly pride - that is probably why she was so hard on herself in the telling of the story. The ending in the book was slightly different than in the movie and showed the final charity of the convent in allowing her to have a nurse's veil upon leaving (not a hat as in the movie) and a nurse's ID.

I have read another book about a young woman who was a religious sister for many years and who left to become a doctor and now does work with the poor in undeveloped nations. I don't think we can judge anyone's actions on one motivation only. And we can hardly judge what God has planned for another.

[TIWW]

Sister Luke's story set in war time in Europe, would have had a profound effect on her. Particularly if she had a strong National sense, knowing she could help save lives with her nursing and the fact that her father had been killed. It was a story which brought in so much of the contemporary thought about the role of the Sisters, obedience, community loyalty, respect for the rule and the Church. Missions were very important then. It was an honor to go. I think it is the subtleties of the story which make it so beautiful for me. Of course the huge classes of candidates was very common too. My postulant class had 43, half of whom had left before Novitiate in the late 60's. No screening process for another couple of years. With the right kind and opportunity for support, I might have made it. I believe I had a vocation, but was very young, only 18.
Growing up a cradle Catholic, Nuns were such a visible part of that experience. Even the active orders, had many rules, traditions and customs particular to their Order. The idea of a Nun without a habit could not even be imagined. We knew what they did, much of how they lived their lives, by observing and experiencing them in their many ministries. When one entered, you knew many of the difficult requirements. Many, for example would never be allowed to go home, or go every 10 years, seeing their families very rarely. Letters were written infrequently to family. Expectations that one would become a religious were common. As someone said, many, many women were in religious life who, even though they might have thought they had a vocation, were not called, were not cut out for the life. It was an honor to have a religious in the family, and there was great disappointment and shame if someone left. I think many stayed, just because they wanted to avoid this for themselves or their families. If a sister did not show up at the end of the summer when school began, or at their station in the hospital, we assumed she got "transferred" or "reassigned. " If they had left, we were not told. Over time, I saw that those who did leave, were treated with more kindness and support by their communities. Vatican II literally opened the doors for those who wanted to leave, or never wanted to stay in the first place. It was a traumatic time for lay and religious.

[brandelynmarie]

[quote name='TIWW' timestamp='1320000380' post='2329007']
I think it is the subtleties of the story which make it so beautiful for me. [/quote]


Yes, I agree.

[MarieLynn]

In 1963 at age 17 I entered with a postulant class of 15, half of whom had been in the Aspirant House attached to the Order for the previous 12 months, just as I had been. As an Aspirant I had some idea of what lay ahead, as we were treated as postulants but without the postulant 'habit'. For those girls who did not have the benefit of being an Aspirant first, they had a much harder time at adjusting to the life than we. One postulant had only visited the Order twice previously, and then was given the papers and her entrance list. 'Live ins' were almost non existent in the 1960's, and if you did find an Order that extended them to prospective postulants, they were for a weekend only, and you were treated as an honoured guest, but saw nothing of the life of the religious.

We had to go to another country to do our postulancy and novitiate, were permitted to write and receive one letter per month, our mail was censored, both incoming and outgoing, and if there was something in it that was not considered 'edifying' it was removed by our PM. We lost 7 of our postulants in the first 6 months. Homesickness was rife, and when a postulant left there was no 'goodbye', she just disappeared after Mass in the morning and we were not told until Recreation period in the afternoon that "Sister ..... had returned to the world". Once we were in the Novitiate it was worse when someone left, again we were only told that "Sister ...... had thrown away her vocation and had chosen the ways of the world", and we were not permitted to speak her name again in Community.

When I returned home a few years later, my father would not speak to me for days, in his eyes I was a failure, and had diminished his "standing" in the Parish. A friend told me later that he was ashamed of me because I had failed at my vocation, and had no "stickability". The Community that I had been part of, when I left I had dire warnings ringing in my ears - I would have a nervous breakdown, I would be unhappy, and if I should marry, I would marry an alchoholic and suffer terribly. None of that has come to pass!!

The Community I had been part of did nothing but turn its back on me when I returned home, - I was selfish, self centred, and had thrown my vocation away on a whim, and Jesus would not "call" me again. Any wonder I lost my Faith for awhile (quite awhile).

I am so thankful that times have changed for the better. The postulant age had been raised to 20, as they were losing too many of the younger immature girls, and the postulants no longer have to go to another country to do their postulancy. The Aspirant house has been closed, but there are now "live-in's" for up to 1 month at a time being offered. Also the 'stigma' attached to a returning religious has been removed. They are no longer regarded as 'failures' by all and sundry, but are applauded for having "given it a try".

Vat 2 certainly shook up some of the "old established orders", and while it was a traumatic time for religious, it was a time of renewal, when the winds of change blew away some of the old practices and traditions, and let the Orders return to the spirit of their Founders,and it also changed the way young nuns were 'formed' or trained. For that we have to be so very thankful.

[BarbTherese]

My experiences in religious life were similar. Life was not easy in my religious community and probably at least half of the nuns were very serious and lacking human warmth and harsh individuals and not seemingly happy at all. I thought even back then when I was 16yrs old that the reason these nuns were the way they were was because they were not happy and joyful in the life and because of the way things were - this situation pre V2 (without making any sweeping generalizations) was one of the reasons, to my mind, so many left the life post V2. Prior to V2 it was a total disgrace inside and outside monastic life to leave - it was almost regarded and sometimes was regarded as a challenge to Faith itself to leave. Post V2 it became rather common and gradually any disgrace attached no longer applied. It was easier to leave post V2 than prior to The Council.For those that did stay as the changes gradually took hold - life became far easier and more human and as one Sister commented to me "Life in religious life has never been so good".

[TIWW]

Lawsy, it sounds like we could use a " leaving the convent in the 60's support group". Two of the women I was a postulant with are still very good friends. We have managed to get together for nearly the past 10 years at least once a year. Two of us live in Minnesota, and one in North Carolina. We sit up late into the night drinking wine and laughing and crying, sometimes at the same time. We of course acknowledge that at 18 , though we wanted to be nuns, none of us had the maturity to deal with all kinds of things. And homesickness was huge. We became each other's "family."

Edited October 31, 2011 by TIWW