Polsky215 Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Is it possible to prove that humans have souls? I read something recently in the book, why matter matters, where it said that humans must have souls based on the fact we can comprehend universal ideas, such as treeness. Can any one elaborate on this argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='Polsky215' timestamp='1308422783' post='2255632'] Is it possible to prove that humans have souls? I read something recently in the book, why matter matters, where it said that humans must have souls based on the fact we can comprehend universal ideas, such as treeness. Can any one elaborate on this argument? [/quote] Has someone proven that without a soul it is impossible to comprehend universal ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polsky215 Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 the author says that this argument was posed by Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Boethius, and Aquinas. The argument says that for a physical mind to produce a nonphysical universal idea would contradict the relationship of sufficient cause between the cause and the effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) i dont think it can be proven. but i think consciousness and God is more precisely illustrated by ideas etc, than a soul, though a soul too. life in general, but espectially consciousness, and espeically to the level of humans, is something that'd be i reckon impossible to replicate without God involved. reproduction is a way God ordained... but aside from that, it'd take the breath of God to produce these things, in my humble opinioin. Edited June 19, 2011 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I think there's a good argument to be made that it requires a transcendent soul to perceive the transcendent. However, I don't think it could possibly be proven decisively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Philosophically a soul does seem to be a commonly concluded theme. However, it doesn't necessarily have any religious, theistic, or spiritual implications. Theology tends to capitalize, literally, on beliefs in a soul. The human brain is a mystery and an enigma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I think that proposing the existence of a soul is also a good way to argue against hard determinism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) I think certain objective proofs exist, although they are controversial (obviously.) Dr Pim Van Lommel is a cardiologist who has written on what is commonly called near death experiences. He found a significant amount of his patients who were in cardiac arrest, and then resuscitated, were coming back with memories. Since the brain does not function during cardiac arrest, it begs the question how these patients were forming memories. Classically the faculty of memory was attributed to the Soul, and therefore it indicates the existence of such a reality. There are other more subtle proofs. Such as the phenomena of neuroplasticity and the placebo effect. The former is rather recent discovery, revealing that the Mind can change the shape of the brain. Essentially what this reveals is that the Mind is over and above the brain, and that the brain does in fact act as a receiver for the Mind, rather than it's transmitter or producer (remember that the materialist position is that the Mind is a product of the brain, and essentially identical with the brain itself.) Im sure there are many more philosophical arguments. Edited June 20, 2011 by mortify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I doubt it can be proven.... but very interesting to see people try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='mortify' timestamp='1308610305' post='2256531'] Classically the faculty of memory was attributed to the Soul, and therefore it indicates the existence of such a reality. [/quote] It's an interesting concept. My counter thoughts to this is that some people with head injuries can have severe memory problems. This would indicate that memory at the very least has a physical component, highly likely to be the brain. Also when a person gets drunk then their thinking is affected (ability to remember, ability to apply deep thought to problems) [quote name='mortify' timestamp='1308610305' post='2256531'] (remember that the materialist position is that the Mind is a product of the brain, and essentially identical with the brain itself.) [/quote] I would agree with this. I feel that the mind is simply a conceptual model of the workings of the brain (the physical system). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1308649364' post='2256712'] It's an interesting concept. My counter thoughts to this is that some people with head injuries can have severe memory problems. This would indicate that memory at the very least has a physical component, highly likely to be the brain. Also when a person gets drunk then their thinking is affected (ability to remember, ability to apply deep thought to problems) [/quote] Not subscribing to either idea... just throwing it out there that IF your soul was involved in the function of memory and the brain acted as some type of intermediate between the soul and the body... you would get the same result... just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Yeah. I saw a movie on it once. Great work. [img]http://kel3090.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/ghost_1990_1280x720_262192.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308446245' post='2255791'] I think that proposing the existence of a soul is also a good way to argue against hard determinism. [/quote] I don't know about that, have you ever wondered how many permutations of neural connections and in what form are possible in just one person's brain? We'll have to learn a lot more about how human thoughts are formed to be better able to argue against hard determinism. For all we know free will could be just an illusion, or at least not as free as we perceive it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308693803' post='2256984'] I don't know about that, have you ever wondered how many permutations of neural connections and in what form are possible in just one person's brain? We'll have to learn a lot more about how human thoughts are formed to be better able to argue against hard determinism. For all we know free will could be just an illusion, or at least not as free as we perceive it to be. [/quote] I've heard most of the arguments in a basic form. I think that assuming a soul allows a pretty good counter to those. Establishing the reasonableness of a soul is a different subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I would argue emergence. But I don't see any benefit in arguing for a soul beyond personal gratification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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