faithcecelia Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 This photo is of the then Sr Mary of Jesus (who later as Mother Mary of Jesus founded most the UK Carmels). The photo was taken on the day of her canonical examination where she, as was the norm at the time, would leave enclosure for a day to demonstrate that she was free to do so, and have her vocation tested by the bishop or his representative before the prioress was permitted to accept the novice for profession. It was also the norm to spend time with the family that day, when they could hug, kiss, take photos etc. Even so, there is something odd!!! Can anyone work it out? There is actually an almost identical one of Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity somewhere. [img]http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k216/ruthbale/007.jpg[/img]
Totally Franciscan Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 In my previous community, when novices left the motherhouse for any outside business, appointments, etc., they changed into a black veil and then back to their white veil upon their return. I don't know for sure, but I presume that is what is happening in this photo so nicely presented by faithcecelia.
faithcecelia Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 Yes its the veil. I had seen the one of Elizabeth of the Trinity a few times and never really noticed it, but I actually asked about it when I saw this one. It was aparantly for no other reason than that, in those days, this was likely to be the only photo a sister would have taken with her family, and it was decided it was nice for the family to have her in her black veil! It amused me a little - we hear so much about how strict things used to be, but there were [i]always[/i] little nicities like this!
HopefulBride Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I thought about the black veil but then I thought about the strictness and figured "they wouldn't have her wear one if it wasn't time, but I was sure Faith explained she hadn't professed final vows yet" lol.
krissylou Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Isn't there a similar picture of Teresa of Jesus? (of the Andes -- there are no photos of Teresa of Jesus of Avila. Obviously. Duh. Moving on.) The story I heard about that (since she took her vows on her deathbed) was that upon entrance photos were taken in street clothes and in full habit and given to the families. And the expectation was that there'd be no more photos, ever, so full habit was preferable to postulant garb. So even though she hasn't even really entered yet, here she is in full habit, with black veil.
faithcecelia Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 [quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1314802647' post='2298053'] Isn't there a similar picture of Teresa of Jesus? (of the Andes -- there are no photos of Teresa of Jesus of Avila. Obviously. Duh. Moving on.) The story I heard about that (since she took her vows on her deathbed) was that upon entrance photos were taken in street clothes and in full habit and given to the families. And the expectation was that there'd be no more photos, ever, so full habit was preferable to postulant garb. So even though she hasn't even really entered yet, here she is in full habit, with black veil. [/quote] Ooooh I had never heard the story, but yes there are most definately photos of her in full habit and black veil (looking far from her death bed!). It does make me smile how they did it! There is also a family photo of Terese etc with at least one of the later one (not sure if it was Celene or one of the cousins) in the habit taken well before her Clothing.
OnlySunshine Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 [quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1314802647' post='2298053'] Isn't there a similar picture of Teresa of Jesus? (of the Andes -- there are no photos of Teresa of Jesus of Avila. Obviously. Duh. Moving on.) The story I heard about that (since she took her vows on her deathbed) was that upon entrance photos were taken in street clothes and in full habit and given to the families. And the expectation was that there'd be no more photos, ever, so full habit was preferable to postulant garb. So even though she hasn't even really entered yet, here she is in full habit, with black veil. [/quote] Yes, exactly! I watched clips of the movie this weekend and then read her biography online. The picture that accompanied it was one of her in the black veil which she wouldn't receive until she professed final vows. [img]http://www.carmelitevocation.ie/cmsAdmin/uploads/thumb/andes-1.jpg[/img]
vee Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1314758122' post='2297868'] This photo is of the then Sr Mary of Jesus (who later as Mother Mary of Jesus founded most the UK Carmels). The photo was taken on the day of her canonical examination where she, as was the norm at the time, would leave enclosure for a day to demonstrate that she was free to do so, and have her vocation tested by the bishop or his representative before the prioress was permitted to accept the novice for profession. It was also the norm to spend time with the family that day, when they could hug, kiss, take photos etc. [/quote] I suspect a few of my visitors would attempt to kidnap me, that is if I wasnt kicked out after two days.
faithcecelia Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 [quote name='vee8' timestamp='1314808731' post='2298103'] I suspect a few of my visitors would attempt to kidnap me, that is if I wasnt kicked out after two days. [/quote] You wouldn't have been the first! I have just read about one whose profession was delayed by 4yrs because her father had said the moment she stepped out of the enclosure he would take her home. She prayed that if told undder obedience to leave, that she would die before she went over the threshold, and when it was suggested she go to another convent to illustrate her freedom rather than spend the day with her family, she did indeed collapse the evening before she was due to go, with the illness that did finally take her life.
Lumiere Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Here is a photo of a book cover showing Teresa of Jesus of the Andes in street clothes and in a black veil. [img]http://giftstore.holyhill.com/holyhillshrine/media/large/Letters_TJA_big.jpg[/img] ...And a full length view: [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4FSfQ67Q1RI/SHn5CiS_vTI/AAAAAAAAChA/kUpeFIv53Dc/s400/Teresa+de+los+Andes1.jpg[/img]
OnlySunshine Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1314809032' post='2298105'] You wouldn't have been the first! I have just read about one whose profession was delayed by 4yrs because her father had said the moment she stepped out of the enclosure he would take her home. She prayed that if told undder obedience to leave, that she would die before she went over the threshold, and when it was suggested she go to another convent to illustrate her freedom rather than spend the day with her family, she did indeed collapse the evening before she was due to go, with the illness that did finally take her life. [/quote] Wow! That's incredible. God would have rather protected her life than let her be kidnapped by her father.
Lisa Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1314809032' post='2298105'] You wouldn't have been the first! I have just read about one whose profession was delayed by 4yrs because her father had said the moment she stepped out of the enclosure he would take her home. She prayed that if told undder obedience to leave, that she would die before she went over the threshold, and when it was suggested she go to another convent to illustrate her freedom rather than spend the day with her family, she did indeed collapse the evening before she was due to go, with the illness that did finally take her life. [/quote] Carmelites, always wanting to die young, intense deaths. Drama queens ETA: but admittedly, beautiful story. Edited August 31, 2011 by Lisa
OnlySunshine Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1314809871' post='2298114'] Carmelites, always wanting to die young, intense deaths. Drama queens ETA: but admittedly, beautiful story. [/quote] Edited August 31, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae
Chiquitunga Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1314803150' post='2298057']Ooooh I had never heard the story, but yes there are most definately photos of her in full habit and black veil (looking far from her death bed!). It does make me smile how they did it! There is also a family photo of Terese etc with at least one of the later one (not sure if it was Celene or one of the cousins) in the habit taken well before her Clothing. [/quote] Neat, I'd never heard of that photo of St. Therese! Which was is it? Also, this is evidence you haven't seen only the best movie created in the history of mankind .. [i]¡¡¡Teresa de Los Andes!!![/i] You're not entering Carmel again until you see it!! Sorry, I'm a little obsessed [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1314809032' post='2298105']You wouldn't have been the first! I have just read about one whose profession was delayed by 4yrs because her father had said the moment she stepped out of the enclosure he would take her home. She prayed that if told undder obedience to leave, that she would die before she went over the threshold, and when it was suggested she go to another convent to illustrate her freedom rather than spend the day with her family, she did indeed collapse the evening before she was due to go, with the illness that did finally take her life. [/quote] Super cool!!! Who was that?!! [quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1314809871' post='2298114'] Carmelites, always wanting to die young, intense deaths. Drama queens ETA: but admittedly, beautiful story. [/quote]
faithcecelia Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 [quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1314812709' post='2298156'] Neat, I'd never heard of that photo of St. Therese! Which was is it? Also, this is evidence you haven't seen only the best movie created in the history of mankind .. [i]¡¡¡Teresa de Los Andes!!![/i] You're not entering Carmel again until you see it!! Sorry, I'm a little obsessed Super cool!!! Who was that?!! [/quote] I don't think I can get the film here, I have looked. The sister was a French woman called Marie Ambaud who entered Notting Hill in November 1883, becoming Sr Magdelen. While yes, it is easy to laugh about the sickly sweet young Carmelites longing to die young, this was different. For one, she was 23 entering, so a proper adult, but also it was more than your average case of parents not being happy. It actually resulted in civil and Church lawyers being involved as well as the Pope, 5 Cardinals, 2 Papal nuncios and dozens of bishops! Even once she had collapsed with what the doctor (who btw wasn't Catholic) immediately diagnosed as a form of meningitis, her parents wouldn't give up. They sent their own doctor too, leading the the community doctor telling him that if he even attempted to say she was fit to be moved, he would see him struck off! The parents demanded to be allowed to nurse her (of course not allowed) and her father said he would have her back 'dead or alive', and even the then Pope being tempted to avoid fuss rather than support this vocation - when the sister asked the Pope to protect her vocation he replied 'Oh that would have been true for Pious IX, he would turn the world upside down for one soul, but not Leo III, I am a diplomat'!!!! As she lay getting more and more sick, she was interviewed by bishops and archbishops after each other, to see if she genuinely had a vocation. Finally, finally, Sr Magdalen was permitted to make her profession, the ceremony in her sickroom with the statue of the Infant of Prague (who is still in the monsatery) as her image of Christ during the simple service. She died just weeks later, unreconciled with her parents but absolutely sure of her calling.
OnlySunshine Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1314815073' post='2298167'] I don't think I can get the film here, I have looked. The sister was a French woman called Marie Ambaud who entered Notting Hill in November 1883, becoming Sr Magdelen. While yes, it is easy to laugh about the sickly sweet young Carmelites longing to die young, this was different. For one, she was 23 entering, so a proper adult, but also it was more than your average case of parents not being happy. It actually resulted in civil and Church lawyers being involved as well as the Pope, 5 Cardinals, 2 Papal nuncios and dozens of bishops! Even once she had collapsed with what the doctor (who btw wasn't Catholic) immediately diagnosed as a form of meningitis, her parents wouldn't give up. They sent their own doctor too, leading the the community doctor telling him that if he even attempted to say she was fit to be moved, he would see him struck off! The parents demanded to be allowed to nurse her (of course not allowed) and her father said he would have her back 'dead or alive', and even the then Pope being tempted to avoid fuss rather than support this vocation - when the sister asked the Pope to protect her vocation he replied 'Oh that would have been true for Pious IX, he would turn the world upside down for one soul, but not Leo III, I am a diplomat'!!!! As she lay getting more and more sick, she was interviewed by bishops and archbishops after each other, to see if she genuinely had a vocation. Finally, finally, Sr Magdalen was permitted to make her profession, the ceremony in her sickroom with the statue of the Infant of Prague (who is still in the monsatery) as her image of Christ during the simple service. She died just weeks later, unreconciled with her parents but absolutely sure of her calling. [/quote] That's awful. I'm glad that the Holy Spirit gave her the grace to stay true to her vocation in spite of the harsh opposition from her parents. What a steadfast soul! I'm not sure I could stay as firm as she did under pressure.
Chiquitunga Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1314815073' post='2298167']The sister was a French woman called Marie Ambaud who entered Notting Hill in November 1883, becoming Sr Magdelen. While yes, it is easy to laugh about the sickly sweet young Carmelites longing to die young, this was different. For one, she was 23 entering, so a proper adult, but also it was more than your average case of parents not being happy. It actually resulted in civil and Church lawyers being involved as well as the Pope, 5 Cardinals, 2 Papal nuncios and dozens of bishops! Even once she had collapsed with what the doctor (who btw wasn't Catholic) immediately diagnosed as a form of meningitis, her parents wouldn't give up. They sent their own doctor too, leading the the community doctor telling him that if he even attempted to say she was fit to be moved, he would see him struck off! The parents demanded to be allowed to nurse her (of course not allowed) and her father said he would have her back 'dead or alive', and even the then Pope being tempted to avoid fuss rather than support this vocation - when the sister asked the Pope to protect her vocation he replied 'Oh that would have been true for Pious IX, he would turn the world upside down for one soul, but not Leo III, I am a diplomat'!!!! As she lay getting more and more sick, she was interviewed by bishops and archbishops after each other, to see if she genuinely had a vocation. Finally, finally, Sr Magdalen was permitted to make her profession, the ceremony in her sickroom with the statue of the Infant of Prague (who is still in the monsatery) as her image of Christ during the simple service. She died just weeks later, unreconciled with her parents but absolutely sure of her calling. [/quote] What a fantastic story, faith! Thanks for posting! Is this in the book [i]In the Silence of Mary[/i]? I think I should order one from Notting Hill. I've heard it's good [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1314815073' post='2298167'] I don't think I can get the film here, I have looked.[/quote] Okay, somehow we've got to get that movie for you ..
dominicansoul Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 [quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1314809871' post='2298114'] Carmelites, always wanting to die young, intense deaths. Drama queens ETA: but admittedly, beautiful story. [/quote] i was gonna say... ...they are just [i]weird[/i]...
vee Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1314848475' post='2298478'] i was gonna say... ...they are just [i]weird[/i]... [/quote] you would fit right in then!!!
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