Your Superior As Your Sd - Or Not?

[Aya Sophia]

Chiqui mentioned in another thread the matter of having one's Superior as Spiritual Director [size=3]("Something I definitely am going to look more into and try to get a clear answer on is this whole thing about how your Superior should not be your Spiritual Director. I experienced this (not in a Carmel) and it did create confusion, to say the least ")[/size] - thought this might be in an interesting topic on its own.

[b]Those with no experience of religious life, those with experience, those currently in religious life - what do you think about having your Superior as your Spiritual Director? Or not?[/b]

In my experience in Carmel the Superior is indeed one's "spiritual director" - if there is heart outpouring and soul baring it is done with and to her. While in the novitiate you meet weekly with the NM but this is mostly to work your way through the Rule, the customary and writings of the founders, to ask certain types of permissions, etc. You can share personally with the NM a little but you reserve the significant bits for your meetings with the Prioress. (The Constitutions allow all members of the community to request and speak to a Confessor/Priest, apart from regular confession, should it be so desired, but the conversations would be related to a particular matter and not be ongoing). It seems having one's Superior as SD is one of the many ways in which, in Carmel, a person still in the novitiate is mainstreamed into the life of the community.

[Nunsense]

No.

[faithcecelia]

This is one of the many situations that will vary dramatically from person to person and community to community. Each individual has the right under canon law to chose their own SD and confessor, allowing for the rules of a community/order etc to be kept - so for example a superior may say they cannot pay for direction for a member, or allow an nun out of enclosure every week for ongoing formation, but they certainly cannot (legally) tell the member who they can use. From experience I think it is beneficial to have an SD who is not the superior (and also pre-entry not the PP) as this gives more freedom of speech, 'space' to discuss and pray over issues concerning the community and ones vocation, etc. But I can also see that the superior would have more idea of the individual's general behaviours and an idea of how well they are coping, if they have changed, etc.

Overall, I would say the most important thing is to have an SD who you are able to be completely honest and open with, who you can truely bare your soul to.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1315575151' post='2302511']
No.
[/quote]


If I had given a one word answer, it would have been this!

[juchu]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1315575151' post='2302511']
No.
[/quote]

I agree
Especially in the beginning.

I have not been in Religious Life yet. But knowing myself a little and having the experience from my life-ins, I would say that things get "messy" sometimes... Lots of feelings, things breaking up, being confronted with God, with community life, with the nakedness of oneself that no grad-school education can cover up.... During my first live in it was really crazy... I talked and cried a lot during this time with my "contact-sister" I have had before as a "guest". I talked also twice with the novice mistress.

When I came for my 2nd live-in, being more sure to enter, I started talking more regulary with my novice-mistress-to-be.
In my community you talk to the prioress at set-times as a novice (I think at least twice a year "officially" where you, the novice mistress and the prioress make sort of an evaluation of how things are going for you).

As a solemly professed sister you talk to the prioress for all important things, since she is the one who is responsable for the unity of the community.

But you are free to choose another sister or an outside person to be your "contact-sister" for the daily struggles. There is a very wise lady coming, who is trained as a psychologist, and one can also choose her as "contact" as a professed sister.

So - to sum it up - especially in formation - I am happy to share with the prioress the "results" of the work done with the novice mistress... But not all the details of all that leads to it.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Eh, I lean towards no. There might be certain things that flow over or are shared/discussed both in spiritual direction and in meeting with one's superior... but the roles are different. One is to form you specifically as a religious and as a religious within a certain institute and charism. The other is to guide and direct, which is slightly different than forming.

[Nunsense]

The role of a SD and the role of a Superior are different. That doesn't mean one can't be close to the Superior, or even share many personal thoughts with her, in fact, this is a good thing, but it is a conflict of interests for her to be the SD for someone in her community because she has her own responsibilities to the whole of the community, as well as to each individual within the community.

I do know of superiors who think that this is their role, but they are mistaken and this idea can cause great distress, confusion and eventual heartache for all involved.

[HopefulBride]

You know I hadn't thought about that. If I had the choice I think I would prefer to not have my formator as my SD.

[cmaD2006]

[b]No no no no no no no.[/b]

You start crossing the lines of interior and exterior forums. You need to have that separation.

In the last experience I had you would talk with your immediate superior about the struggles you are having, but each sister was encouraged to have a spiritual director. The spiritual director was usually one of the priests in the institute. Some of the sisters had a "sister mentor" who was also involved.

Even in that case there was a potential for a conflict of interest, but the priests were such that they did seem to keep things confidential.

[krissylou]

Lillliabettt (I'm never sure how many Ls and how many Ts there are supposed to be in there) was talking about this too, with her former community.

Without trying to put words in her mouth, she was also talking about "internal and external forums" as cmaria was saying.

[MithLuin]

I've not experienced religious life, but I would just say that I'd never want my boss as my spiritual director. I don't go to confession with the priest who is my dad's boss (my dad's a deacon), nor the priest who was my boss at the school where I taught....

and it isn't because I don't trust them to respect the seal of the confessional.

It's just that I think that it crosses a boundary and isn't helpful for anyone involved.

There are other priests I can go to for confession, and for spiritual direction. Why would a put someone in a position of feeling conflicted over that?

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1315588274' post='2302571']
I've not experienced religious life, but I would just say that I'd never want my boss as my spiritual director. I don't go to confession with the priest who is my dad's boss (my dad's a deacon), nor the priest who was my boss at the school where I taught....

and it isn't because I don't trust them to respect the seal of the confessional.

It's just that I think that it crosses a boundary and isn't helpful for anyone involved.

There are other priests I can go to for confession, and for spiritual direction. Why would a put someone in a position of feeling conflicted over that?
[/quote]


My former parish priest heard 3hrs+ of confessions a week and I heard from many people that he was a very good confessor. I have no reason to doubt that, but never went to him because he had very quickly become my friend, and especially so once I was also his secretary. Some of our conversations could possibly have been seen as spiritual direction, but the advice came out of conversations of friendship - I valued and respected his advice (still do) but I would never have chosen his as an SD because he was my friend.

[EWIE]

[size=5][color=#800000][b]NO ![/b][/color][/size]

[cmaD2006]

FaithCecilia mentioned another no-no.

A spiritual director needs to be either a spiritual mother or father. Not a friend. Now granted a sort of friendship develops over time (I would consider my 1st spiritual director a friend, but that developed over time).

Friendship however was not the focus.

I made the mistake of crossing that line with my last spiritual director ... and because of a disagreement now both the spiritual direction and the friendship were broken. If we weren't friends, he would still be my s.d.

I would also suggest that your s.d. not be involved in ministry with you at all. Sometimes that can be difficult to do (there is a possibility that I will serve at the parish where my s.d. is at). But that separation I think is a good thing too.

-------
... this should have been a poll. Then again it would have been oh so lopsided

Edited September 9, 2011 by cmariadiaz

[carmenchristi]

I agree with all those who said no, and with their reasoning.

BTW I have experienced a superior as a SD.... it was terrible and I'm glad that the practice has since changed!

Edited September 9, 2011 by carmenchristi

[OnlySunshine]

I would have to go with NO also. It was hard enough discussing my aspirancy with the Provincial Superior of my former order (which I didn't even enter). I don't think I could discuss the heavy duty spiritual stuff with a Superior, especially if it was concerning doubts that I had.

I hope that the Religious Sisters of Mercy allow the Sisters to find their own spiritual directors if I enter there (God-willing).

[Orans]

[quote name='Aya Sophia' timestamp='1315574567' post='2302508']
[b]Those with no experience of religious life, those with experience, those currently in religious life - what do you think about having your Superior as your Spiritual Director? Or not?[/b]
[/quote]

This point is so very important that even the Second Vatican Council had a specific say about it, here is the quote:

[quote[color=#0000cd]][/color][color=#0000cd]Superiors, as those who are to give an account of the souls entrusted to them (Heb. 13:17), should fulfill their office in a way responsive to God's will. They should exercise their authority out of a spirit of service to the brethren, expressing in this way the love with which God loves their subjects. They should govern these as sons of God, respecting their human dignity. In this way they make it easier for them to subordinate their wills. [/color][color=#a52a2a]They should be particularly careful to respect their subjects' liberty in the matters of sacramental confession and the direction of conscience [/color][color=#0000cd] (P.C. 14)[/color][/quote]

There may easily exist a conflict between the roles of Superior and Spiritual Director and the religious/priest is in too vulnerable position if both roles are held by the same person. This is an avenue of potential abuse whether intentional or not. That's why there are religious institutions, including seminaries, that have in their Rules this coincidence of roles forbidden.

I would respond NO to the question.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Orans

[Chiquitunga]

I meant to post here earlier, but wow a thread got started on my post. Thanks, Aya! It's an important topic. I agree that having your Superior as your SD is NOT a good idea! Although I have heard it seems to be done this way in a number of communities .. at least at the start. I have heard this from a few Carmels .. One for instance has you under the Novice Mistress and/or Prioress for direction in the novitiate. And when you're in First Vows you will have your own priest of your choice for direction .. something like that - though I need to do a double check on that <-- also I'm super tired at the moment so I may be remembering things wrong

But anyway, yes, this is something I am looking into/asking questions about and want to get straight for next time. Thank you Orans for posting that quote from VII.

[carmenchristi]

I have a friend who is a ND. She tells me that they normally don't have external spiritual directors (although they can request it if they have a particular need). I don't know if they necessarily go to the superior for spiritual direction or to another sister of their choice. I never asked, but it struck me as interesting that they usually stay amongst themselves. She told me that it was to avoid the influence of many strange ideas that were circulating at the time of VII.

[hope&memory]

Absolutely not. Experienced it and it was a disaster.