Secular Institutes

[krissylou]

[quote name='EWIE' timestamp='1317397992' post='2312841']
[color=#800000][b][size=4]And after a certain number of years following "promises" in the OCDS community, one is permitted to make vows.[/size][/b][/color]
[/quote]

Yes -- but not QUITE the same way that beatitude was talking about. (I looked into this.) So, for the most obvious one an OCDS may make a "vow of chastity" -- but that is CHASTITY not CELIBACY. Married people who are faithful to each other are chaste. If an OCDS who is married makes a vow of chastity, that would not affect normal married life. And if that person's spouse died, he or she would be as free to remarry as anyone else. If a single person who is OCDS makes the vow of chastity that would not preclude the ability to marry.

(Of course an OCDS person could also make a private vow of celibacy/virginity, but that is a somewhat different beast.)

Thanks, beatitude! That helps a lot!

[quote name='EWIE' timestamp='1317397992' post='2312841']
[color=#800000][b][size=4]And after a certain number of years following "promises" in the OCDS community, one is permitted to make vows.[/size][/b][/color]
[/quote]

Yes -- but not QUITE the same way that beatitude was talking about. (I looked into this.) So, for the most obvious one an OCDS may make a "vow of chastity" -- but that is CHASTITY not CELIBACY. Married people who are faithful to each other are chaste. If an OCDS who is married makes a vow of chastity, that would not affect normal married life. And if that person's spouse died, he or she would be as free to remarry as anyone else. If a single person who is OCDS makes the vow of chastity that would not preclude the ability to marry.

(Of course an OCDS person could also make a private vow of celibacy/virginity, but that is a somewhat different beast.)

Thanks, beatitude! That helps a lot!

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1317392766' post='2312810']
SI members take the same vows as religious - poverty, chastity, and obedience. [/quote]
A qualification -- there are secular institutes that do accept married couples into their membership. I looked on the US secular instititues website. So in some cases you can be married and be a fully consecrated member of a secular institute.

What wasn't clear is if all secular institutes take vows or promises of the evangelical counsels. And the nature of it. (What it consists of). It does seem that there is some discretion here and I would think each group is different?

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1317416151' post='2312981']
A qualification -- there are secular institutes that do accept married couples into their membership. I looked on the US secular instititues website. So in some cases you can be married and be a fully consecrated member of a secular institute.

What wasn't clear is if all secular institutes take vows or promises of the evangelical counsels. And the nature of it. (What it consists of). It does seem that there is some discretion here and I would think each group is different?
[/quote]

Whoops. It should have read "clarification" instead of qualification. That's the spanglish getting confused (I thought the wrong word in english but I knew what word I wanted, yet I wasn't thinking in spanish; hard to explain).

[mme_hardy]

[quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1316310421' post='2306081']
I am only considering communities that wear a full habit. Something to consider is that the habit is really a sign of the whole mentality of the community. The really liberal orders are the ones who abandoned the habit, and its not just the habit. They're all "Peace and Justice" and women's rights and stuff. Its hard to explain, but its the whole package I don't want, not [i]just[/i] the lack of habits. And besides, I feel that a habit is a witness to the world. Refusing to wear a habit is like a married person refusing to wear their wedding ring. When I'm walking around town or whatever (or not if Im cloistered!) I want people to say, hey, thats a nun. Not thats some frumpy lady who doesn't know how to dress. Because the uninhabited nuns (get it? UNINHABITED!!! no habits, and nobody joins them either!) don't wear normal clothes anyway. At least the ones I've seen.
[/quote]

This is, fair warning, a Protestant take; I was raised Society of Friends, and a big part of our spiritual tradition is that there is a light of God shining in every person, and that every person must follow that light as best s/he can. I'm Episcopal now, but that philosophy left a deep stamp on my soul.

It is completely valid and appropriate for some people to say "I want an order with a habit, it speaks to me spiritually and as a sign of commitment." There are many honorable foundations, both ancient and modern, that have the sign of the habit as an important part of their lives with God.

However, there also was a period in Church history when bishops insisted that all orders wear habits -- including orders whose charism specifically was against habits. St. Louise de Marillac of the Daughters of Charity said, "“You will have no veil, save only that of modesty; no cloister, but the streets of the city, the hovels of the poor, the classroom, or the wards of hospitals; your only cell will be a hired room, and your grill, holy obedience.” You can't get clearer than that -- her order was to be a missionary order, their clothing the same as that that of the people they served.

Part of Vatican II was for orders to examine their origional charism and to think where they had fallen away from that charism. When the Daughters of Charity simplified their habits into street clothes, they were doing exactly what St. Louise had mandated three hundred years before. It was not a falling away, it was a returning to roots. The same goes for St. Elizabeth Ann Seton's Sisters (later Daughters) of Charity -- they were founded in the Vincentian charism. Originally they wore simple widows' clothes, and over time they continued to wear the widow's clothes of the 19th century long after they had become visible costumes rather than statements of membership in the local community. When Vatican II came, the Daughters of Charity reverted to simple clothing in blue or white [i]because that was what their foundress had intended[/i].

It's not as simple as "habit: traditional/no habit: modern". Some Orders -- especially active orders -- have a long and distinguished tradition of dressing to fit in with the people they serve.

Edited October 1, 2011 by mme_hardy

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='mme_hardy' timestamp='1317484915' post='2313368']

This is, fair warning, a Protestant take; I was raised Society of Friends, and a big part of our spiritual tradition is that there is a light of God shining in every person, and that every person must follow that light as best s/he can. I'm Episcopal now, but that philosophy left a deep stamp on my soul.

It is completely valid and appropriate for some people to say "I want an order with a habit, it speaks to me spiritually and as a sign of commitment." There are many honorable foundations, both ancient and modern, that have the sign of the habit as an important part of their lives with God.

However, there also was a period in Church history when bishops insisted that all orders wear habits -- including orders whose charism specifically was against habits. St. Louise de Marillac of the Daughters of Charity said, "“You will have no veil, save only that of modesty; no cloister, but the streets of the city, the hovels of the poor, the classroom, or the wards of hospitals; your only cell will be a hired room, and your grill, holy obedience.” You can't get clearer than that -- her order was to be a missionary order, their clothing the same as that that of the people they served.

Part of Vatican II was for orders to examine their origional charism and to think where they had fallen away from that charism. When the Daughters of Charity simplified their habits into street clothes, they were doing exactly what St. Louise had mandated three hundred years before. It was not a falling away, it was a returning to roots. The same goes for St. Elizabeth Ann Seton's Sisters (later Daughters) of Charity -- they were founded in the Vincentian charism. Originally they wore simple widows' clothes, and over time they continued to wear the widow's clothes of the 19th century long after they had become visible costumes rather than statements of membership in the local community. When Vatican II came, the Daughters of Charity reverted to simple clothing in blue or white [i]because that was what their foundress had intended[/i].

It's not as simple as "habit: traditional/no habit: modern". Some Orders -- especially active orders -- have a long and distinguished tradition of dressing to fit in with the people they serve.
[/quote]


Thank you for this lovely post. The habit issue has been a touchy one on phatmass for all the years I have been here, and I have learned a lot over those years. I originally felt that all nuns SHOULD wear a habit, regardless of any other consideration, but my views on that have changed as I have come to know personally many nuns who don't wear a habit (or wear one at certain times only or wear various modified versions of a habit) - all for reasons that are significant and relevant to them and their community. I am a lot less intolerant than I was when I first started discerning, and now I see things a little differently. I love your comment that

[i]"I want an order with a habit, it speaks to me spiritually and as a sign of commitment." [/i]

which accepts that this is a personal choice to make, and not a value judgment on those who make a different choice, for whatever reason.

Two dear friends of mine right now are Mercy nuns, the last two of their community here in this bush town in rural Australia. Their convent was too big for them and was sold for use by a Catholic school, and they both (being biological sisters as well) moved back into their old family home (both parents are deceased). When they attend Mass, they wear their blue (modified for Australian heat) habits, but for many of their activities around town, they wear secular clothes (usually plain dresses). The come to the elderly hostel where I work and play cards with the residents. They run a second hand charity shop in town to raise funds for St Vincent de Paul society. The whole town knows these sisters and loves them - whether they are in habit or not. They have helped me since I first moved to this area and I adore them - I don't care what they wear!

Personally, I like the habit, and I loved wearing one and would love to do so again, but we always need to respect the choices made by each community - what is important is not what they wear, but that they have committed their lives to God.

Thanks for your post, mme_hardy.