Attachment As Impediment To Vocation

[inperpetuity]

Here is the article: [url="http://www.sensustraditionis.org/12-4-99.pdf"]http://www.sensustraditionis.org/12-4-99.pdf[/url] by Fr. Chad Ripperger


Herein lies part of the reason for my delay.

[Aya Sophia]

Well, ip, I haven't had a chance to read your 29 page att (!), although I plan to. I think I get the jist of your post from just the title and your one line of text. A critically important matter for one discerning and entering and STAYING in religious life! I was just PM'ing with somone and thought what I wrote might be a good start at a response:
[indent=1]It is best, if you can, to start off IMMEDIATELY in Carmel simply not caring about [i][insert pretty much anything here...][/i]. If we care (i.e. if we do not have detachment) then this has to be purified out of us. If we are not purified of attachments then we will suffer continually and atrociously (and probably cause others to suffer as well) and endanger our chances of persevering. Detachment of spirit in all things, interior and exterior, and living for GOD ALONE is the foundation for living in Carmel. One may think of this detachment as a source of suffering in itself. It is only the attachment in conflict with the act of detaching that hurts. Detachment itself - true detachment - once arrived at is a place of great peace and freedom. Human nature being what it is, of course, I don't think we're ever free from the inclination to attach - the root of it remains in us, perhaps as a result of original sin. Anyway, as one Sister said to me in a parlor before I entered, "Oh, it's a mortifed life! It's a very mortified life!"[/indent]

Sadly, the evil one adores to attack us in our attachments. As the most important thing in our lives, second only to our vertical relationship with God, is our horizontal relationships with others, I think the attachments he takes most advantage of are our attachments to others - to family, to friends. I think of Our Holy Mother Teresa's account of leaving her father to go the convent. So profound was the wrench that she felt as though her bones were desolving. We may well experience such a wrench in leaving the world, in entering religious life and in staying there. It is a normal part of the process.

That's all I have time for now - have to drive my nephew to the orthodontist!

Edited September 15, 2011 by Aya Sophia

[sistersintigo]

The Holy Spirit must be behind this thread. On another thread I just made a post about my own defects and flaws, and one of them was the stubbornness of my attachments, so this thread is more than timely.

[Chiara Francesco]

In that "Detachment" attachment sited above is the phrase, [i]"one desires nothing, seeks after nothing" and "we are completely indifferent as to what happens to it and to us"[/i]. This is SO St. Francis de Sales-like! His "ask for nothing, refuse nothing" teaching. His teachings are the basis of St. Therese's Little Way. Read him and you see her! I've read a ton of his writings and hers and it's purported that St. Therese grew up reading St. Francis de Sales' writings and they are so much alike.

Good article.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Chiara Francesco

[inperpetuity]

(Well, ip, I haven't had a chance to read your 29 page att (!), although I plan to.)

Oh, wow, I didn't realize it was that long!! Sorry about that. It didn't seem like it took that long to read though if that helps.

[AccountDeleted]

For me, the 'secret' to attachment, is simply to make my attachment to God the most important thing in my life, and then let Him deal with all the other attachments.

St Teresa of Avila was very attached to people in her life (read her letters), and yet her attachment to God was obviously more important than any of these.

I think it gets confusing when we try too hard NOT to have any attachments at all. We are human beings after all, and made to feel attachments... but the freedom lies in not allowing our attachments to control us - but the only way to do this is to be attached to something more powerful than all the other attachments.

The Buddhists have similar concepts, being detached and desireless - but to simply use 'negation' (in my opinion) is unproductive and perhaps even unhuman and makes us focus too much on ourselves- and might even open the door to spiritual pride. So rather than try to eliminate my attachments, I try harder to attach myself to God in every way possible, and then to let Him purify me of whatever unhealthy attachments I might have - anything that might come between me and Him. Nothing and no one is more powerful than He is.... so I let Him fight my battles for me. My job is to maintain faith and trust and love in Him. That way, whatever is given to me (people or things), is a gift from Him and whatever is taken from me, is also a gift from Him.

[inperpetuity]

Oh yes, that is why I particularly liked this part of the article:[left][font="TimesNewRoman"]But like a good Father, He only steps in when his child cannot do something. In other words,[/font][/left][left][font="TimesNewRoman"]a good father does not do a child’s homework. Rather, the child is left to do it on his own until he[/font][/left][left][font="TimesNewRoman"]comes to something which he cannot do and then he goes to his father to ask for help. A good father[/font][/left][left][font="TimesNewRoman"]helps the child but only with the child’s cooperation; he does not do the child’s homework himself,[/font][/left]
[font="TimesNewRoman"]he helps the child to do it. [/font]

[Sarah147]

RELATED THREAD: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=110834"]DETACHMENT[/url]

[inperpetuity]

[quote name='Aya Sophia' timestamp='1316091815' post='2304985']
Well, ip, I haven't had a chance to read your 29 page att (!), although I plan to. I think I get the jist of your post from just the title and your one line of text. A critically important matter for one discerning and entering and STAYING in religious life! I was just PM'ing with somone and thought what I wrote might be a good start at a response:
[indent=1]It is best, if you can, to start off IMMEDIATELY in Carmel simply not caring about [i][insert pretty much anything here...][/i]. If we care (i.e. if we do not have detachment) then this has to be purified out of us. If we are not purified of attachments then we will suffer continually and atrociously (and probably cause others to suffer as well) and endanger our chances of persevering. Detachment of spirit in all things, interior and exterior, and living for GOD ALONE is the foundation for living in Carmel. One may think of this detachment as a source of suffering in itself. It is only the attachment in conflict with the act of detaching that hurts. Detachment itself - true detachment - once arrived at is a place of great peace and freedom. Human nature being what it is, of course, I don't think we're ever free from the inclination to attach - the root of it remains in us, perhaps as a result of original sin. Anyway, as one Sister said to me in a parlor before I entered, "Oh, it's a mortifed life! It's a very mortified life!"[/indent]


Sadly, the evil one adores to attack us in our attachments. As the most important thing in our lives, second only to our vertical relationship with God, is our horizontal relationships with others, I think the attachments he takes most advantage of are our attachments to others - to family, to friends. I think of Our Holy Mother Teresa's account of leaving her father to go the convent. So profound was the wrench that she felt as though her bones were desolving. We may well experience such a wrench in leaving the world, in entering religious life and in staying there. It is a normal part of the process.

That's all I have time for now - have to drive my nephew to the orthodontist!
[/quote]

Oh, well it's actually only 14 pages and then a conference on self-knowledge immediately follows which is also excellent!

[inperpetuity]

Edited September 19, 2011 by inperpetuity

[inperpetuity]

Just to clarify, I believe that the word "Attachment" in this article refers to disorder to a greater or lesser degree as does just about all I've ever read on the subject by saints and doctors to include, of course St. John of the Cross. For instance, the more detached someone is from creatures, for God's sake, the more attached he becomes to God. I believe that this is the goal of the spiritual life, but as it states in Fr.'s article, we cannot do it all ourselves, and it is God Himself who initiates even the desire for it. As in the doctrine on detachment expressed by the saints this article clearly does not suggest that we hate creation as in the heresy of Jansenism, or to become stoic or Buddhist, but that we learn to use them and love them for God's sake. To acquire any of the virtues, we must do our part which as many of us have found out can be painful especially when it involves attachment to ourselves. This is what I have experienced, and mortification is not naturally pleasant to me, but what I have understood to be necessary for growth in the spiritual life.

P.S. - The Phatmass demons have apparently found open hosts which is why I had to re-word this post. Like I have time for this.

[Aya Sophia]

Finally did read the 14pp (not 29! ) on detachment - very substantial and packed with truth.
[left][font=TimesNewRoman]One item I would have stated differently: In proposing an example of spiritual gluttony, Fr. juxtaposes the Old Mass vs (presumably) the new: [i]"The attachemnt [/i][/font][i][font=TimesNewRoman]to the consolations associated with religious or spiritual activities is called spiritual gluttony, because [/font][font=TimesNewRoman]the person 'feeds,' if you will, on the spiritual goods rather than on God. This is one of the reasons [/font][font=TimesNewRoman]why many reject the Old Mass because it is not designed for spiritual consolations but desolations.[/font][font=TimesNewRoman]In other words, it is designed to strip us of ourselves so that we can enter into the mystery of God [/font][font=TimesNewRoman]present in the Sacrifice by means of silence, by kneeling and by meditative prayer rather than [/font][/i][font=TimesNewRoman][i]socializing and external chattering." [/i][/font][/left][left][font=TimesNewRoman]Instead of stating objectively that the Old Mass "[i]is not designed for spiritual consolations but desolations" [/i]I would have pointed out the important fact that, quite often, [u]one person's consolation is another's desolation[/u] and would have addressed the implications of this fact. For me, desolation would be in the socializing and external chattering often found in parishes with the new Mass. Consolation would be in the smooth flowing splendor of the Old Mass (or, as in my case, the Byzantine Liturgy), the contemplative river in which one is submerged as the Mass/Liturgy unfolds, etc. DETACHMENT, for me, would consist in not avoiding the new Mass to avoid the associated desolation and not seeking out the Old Mass to enjoy the associated consolation. [/font][/left][left][font=TimesNewRoman]So, although there are objective guidelines we can and should follow (vis. the writings of many saints & docs of the church, as you noted) self-knowledge is also helpful so as to get not just at the shoots and branches of attachment but at the roots. Glad you stressed again the fact that the spiritual excercises of mortification and detachment come (or should come) from a will (a loving desire) to be attached only to God and not from a hatred or condemnation of a creatures of themselves, etc. ("Creatures are great but their Creator is greater.")[/font][/left][left][font=TimesNewRoman]Here are a couple of classics that treat the subject of detachment/mortifcation in a style perhaps more approachable than John of the Cross (btw, whoever finds John+ offputting shouldn't feel bad - they're in good company. An Abbot friend visiting in Carmel last year told me rather sheepishly that he had been afraid of his first visit to a Carmelite monastery - he had expected to feel intimidated and uneasy, with "all those nuns looking at [him] with those big John-of-the-Cross eyes..." !)[/font][/left][left][font=TimesNewRoman][b][u]Holy Wisdom[/u][/b] by Augustine Baker, OSB - see second treatise: [/font]On the First Instrument of Perfection, viz., Mortification (My copy has language of another time but modern versions may have updated language.)[/left][left][font=TimesNewRoman][b][u]Mysticism[/u] [/b]by Evelyn Underhill - shorter treatment of the subject but a fabulous book[/font][/left][left][font=TimesNewRoman][b]P.S. TRIED TO SEPARATE PARAGRAPHS to make this post easier on the eyes but didn't work! [/b]Anyone know how come?[/font][/left]

Edited September 21, 2011 by Aya Sophia