Quietfire Posted April 29, 2004 Author Posted April 29, 2004 [quote] by thicke Does this person's group (you keep saying "they") have a name? Do they read the Bible, both Old and New Testaments? [/quote] Sorry, missed that question. I asked, I came right out and asked what 'manner of faith they are' I got so many different 'names' that I think it threw them off. No one had bothered to ask that question before. Some claim to be in between Judaism and christianity Some claim to be recovering catholics-detest the Church Some claim to be recovering christians. Some claim to be Jewish, observing all the jewish customs, and accepting Jesus. They 'assume' that if two agree on something in the bible, then it must be true. Although they constantly debate as to what to agree on.
Quietfire Posted April 29, 2004 Author Posted April 29, 2004 [quote]quiet fire called me a christian... too much love out to you, QF. God bless.[/quote] Lumberjack, I really do love you, brother. We may not agree with everything..but thats why we're here...to grow, right? Besides, if you did agree with me on everything......you'd be my husband! *husband* yes, dear
Fiat_Voluntas_Tua Posted April 29, 2004 Posted April 29, 2004 There is a website that is titled Jews4Jesus.
Quietfire Posted April 29, 2004 Author Posted April 29, 2004 (edited) Yeah, Ive been there. This site(the one I'm talking about) DENOUNCES them(Jews4Jesus) as well. Claim they are just as bad as the CC. Claim they are just like the JW's that they are as crooked, just like christians. too wierd. I suppose I should have rephrased my topic name to this.. Can you be Jewish - accept Christ- but not Christianity? Does that make sense? Edited April 29, 2004 by Quietfire
ironmonk Posted April 29, 2004 Posted April 29, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Quietfire' date='Apr 29 2004, 05:05 PM'] Yeah, Ive been there. This site(the one I'm talking about) DENOUNCES them(Jews4Jesus) as well. Claim they are just as bad as the CC. Claim they are just like the JW's that they are as crooked, just like christians. too wierd. I suppose I should have rephrased my topic name to this.. Can you be Jewish - accept Christ- but not Christianity? Does that make sense? [/quote] No... you cannot accept Jesus and reject the Way that He created. Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" They reject the ones sent by Christ. But... if they believe they are serving God the way God wants them to, they are Catholic by desire. God shows mercy to those that love Him, even though they might be wrong on how to love Him. [b]Romans 2:13 [/b] For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. [b]14 [/b]For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. [b]15 [/b][u]They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts[/u], while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them [b]16 [/b]on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people's hidden works through Christ Jesus. The New Law is Christ. God Bless, ironmonk Edited April 29, 2004 by ironmonk
thicke Posted April 30, 2004 Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 29 2004, 02:29 PM'] quiet fire called me a christian... [/quote] LJ - Have you been baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
ironmonk Posted April 30, 2004 Posted April 30, 2004 (edited) [quote name='thicke' date='Apr 29 2004, 08:47 PM'] LJ - Have you been baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? [/quote] That does not constitute a Christian. Mary was the first Christian and she was not baptized. She was the first Christian when she accepted to be the Mother of our Lord. First and foremost a basic Christian is someone who believes that Christ is the son of God. Secondly, a advanced Christian is someone who believes that they are following the Way of Christ. Thirdly, a complete Christian is a practical Catholic. If LJ truly believes with a sincere heart that he is servering God the way that Christ wants him to, then he is Christian, even though some of his beliefs are not accurate. God Bless, ironmonk Edited April 30, 2004 by ironmonk
nikkan_hanil Posted April 30, 2004 Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 29 2004, 04:51 PM'] No... you cannot accept Jesus and reject the Way that He created. Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" They reject the ones sent by Christ. But... if they believe they are serving God the way God wants them to, they are Catholic by desire. God shows mercy to those that love Him, even though they might be wrong on how to love Him. [/quote] So Messianic Jews who attend (and of course, follow) Church are validly Christian?
Quietfire Posted April 30, 2004 Author Posted April 30, 2004 thats deep Ironmonk, and seems to clear up alot for me. As far as this topic goes. I used your stuff from the Bible. I guess when it comes to those mentioned they could be considered an Advanced Christian. I think that they believe that they are following the way of Christ, but by following the laws of the old testament. Saturday sabbath Passover No Pork No 'pagan' holidays- christmas, easter, halloween (thier words) the law of circumcision I'm sure you understand.
thicke Posted April 30, 2004 Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 29 2004, 07:51 PM']That does not constitute a Christian.[/quote] I never said baptism is required to be a Christian, now did I? While not all Christians have been baptized, all baptized (with the right form) persons are Christians.... [quote]"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church." CCC #818[/quote] [quote]"Reborn as sons of God, [the baptized] must profess before men the faith they have received from God through the Church" and participate in the apostolic and missionary activity of the People of God. Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn." CCC #1270,1271[/quote] I think of Lumberjack as a Christian, I believe he has Christ in his heart as evidenced by his zeal for expressing what he believes to be the truth. But, if he is baptized with the proper form, I can [b]know[/b] him to be a Christian. [quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 29 2004, 07:51 PM']Mary was the first Christian and she was not baptized. She was the first Christian when she accepted to be the Mother of our Lord. [/quote] I know that. You're preaching to the choir. Lumberjack - I love you as a brother Christian. I hope you continue to seek the truth, even if only in your own way.....
the lumberjack Posted April 30, 2004 Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='Quietfire' date='Apr 29 2004, 02:49 PM'] Lumberjack, I really do love you, brother. We may not agree with everything..but thats why we're here...to grow, right? Besides, if you did agree with me on everything......you'd be my husband! *husband* yes, dear [/quote] hahahaha...good thing then, I guess. and yeah, those Jews for Jesus yet not Christianity sound kinda wierd... ---- and thicke, yes I have...thank you. ----- and monk, [quote]If LJ truly believes with a sincere heart that he is servering God the way that Christ wants him to, then he is Christian, even though some of his beliefs are not accurate.[/quote] I love you too homie...and the same thing to you...if in your heart you believe you are serving Christ the way Christ wants you to, then you are a Christian...even though some of your beliefs are not accurate as well. thats sincere...not biting, not sarcastic...cien por ciento amor. proclaim Christ, save lives, right? and hey, if I really am wrong, sooner or later I'll be in the Catholic Church... and if not, then the people I minister to will be...so either way, its a win win situation, right? ----- thicke...[quote]I think of Lumberjack as a Christian, I believe he has Christ in his heart as evidenced by his zeal for expressing what he believes to be the truth. But, if he is baptized with the proper form, I can know him to be a Christian. Lumberjack - I love you as a brother Christian. I hope you continue to seek the truth, even if only in your own way.....[/quote] thank you brother...and I will. God bless.
p0lar_bear Posted April 30, 2004 Posted April 30, 2004 Quietfire, You may want to check out [url="http://www.secondexodus.com"]www.secondexodus.com[/url] and [url="http://www.hebrewcatholic.org"]www.hebrewcatholic.org[/url] They are websites of organizations devoted to bringing Jews into the Church as well as helping Jewish Catholics retain their Jewish heritage.
Quietfire Posted April 30, 2004 Author Posted April 30, 2004 (edited) polar, SHHHWEET Edited April 30, 2004 by Quietfire
ironmonk Posted April 30, 2004 Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 29 2004, 11:27 PM'] and monk, I love you too homie...and the same thing to you...if in your heart you believe you are serving Christ the way Christ wants you to, then you are a Christian...even though some of your beliefs are not accurate as well. thats sincere...not biting, not sarcastic...cien por ciento amor. proclaim Christ, save lives, right? and hey, if I really am wrong, sooner or later I'll be in the Catholic Church... and if not, then the people I minister to will be...so either way, its a win win situation, right? [/quote] God Bless. I agree. God Bless, ironmonk
master_alterserver Posted May 3, 2004 Posted May 3, 2004 Jews that have accepted Jesus as a massiah= Messianic Jews.
Quietfire Posted May 3, 2004 Author Posted May 3, 2004 master! thanks for joining my delerium!!! [quote]Jews that have accepted Jesus as a massiah= Messianic Jews.[/quote] it isnt quite that simple. If I am not mistaken...Jews4Jesus rep the Pope. This group/site that I am talking about do not rep the Pope. Putting all their past beliefs/faith aside it looks like this. They follow the old Law. (Hebrew/Jew) All of them. Saturday Sabbath, no pork, No christian holidays,etc. they celebrate passover, not easter(its pagen to them) They believe Yashua(Jesus) is the messiah. They condemn The Church AND Christianity for following its own agenda,and not following the law. Accuse us of making our own. YET-when questions arise....there mindset is that if two or more agree on something then it could be more (and they use the Bible to back that belief up.) Look, I dont go to that site for fun or cause I believe- I go there because someone whom I love very much, someone whom I would die for thinks she has 'found the truth' there. I have to leave it at that, without further explaination. Please just trust me on this and believe me when I say that its a cult.
Quietfire Posted May 3, 2004 Author Posted May 3, 2004 (edited) master! thanks for joining my delerium!!! [quote]Jews that have accepted Jesus as a massiah= Messianic Jews.[/quote] it isnt quite that simple. If I am not mistaken...Jews4Jesus rep the Pope. This group/site that I am talking about do not rep the Pope. Putting all their past beliefs/faith aside it looks like this. They follow the old Law. (Hebrew/Jew) All of them. Saturday Sabbath, no pork, No christian holidays,etc. they celebrate passover, not easter(its pagen to them) They believe Yashua(Jesus) is the messiah. They condemn The Church AND Christianity for following its own agenda,and not following the law. Accuse us of making our own. YET-when questions arise....there mindset is that if two or more(of them) can agree on something then it could be true (and they use the Bible to back that belief up.) Look, I dont go to that site for fun or cause I believe- I go there because someone whom I love very much, someone whom I would die for thinks she has 'found the truth' there. I have to leave it at that, without further explaination. Please just trust me on this and believe me when I say that its a cult. Peace Edited May 3, 2004 by Quietfire
Quietfire Posted May 3, 2004 Author Posted May 3, 2004 master! thanks for joining my delerium!!! [quote]Jews that have accepted Jesus as a massiah= Messianic Jews.[/quote] it isnt quite that simple. If I am not mistaken...Jews4Jesus rep the Pope. This group/site that I am talking about do not rep the Pope. Putting all their past beliefs/faith aside it looks like this. They follow the old Law. (Hebrew/Jew) All of them. Saturday Sabbath, no pork, No christian holidays,etc. they celebrate passover, not easter(its pagen to them) They believe Yashua(Jesus) is the messiah. They condemn The Church AND Christianity for following its own agenda,and not following the law. Accuse us of making our own. YET-when questions arise....there mindset is that if two or more agree on something then it could be more (and they use the Bible to back that belief up.) Look, I dont go to that site for fun or cause I believe- I go there because someone whom I love very much, someone whom I would die for thinks she has 'found the truth' there. I have to leave it at that, without further explaination. Please just trust me on this and believe me when I say that its a cult. Peace
Circle_Master Posted May 3, 2004 Posted May 3, 2004 Jews4Jesus do keep a lot of the Old Testament traditions and will not give them up. They do recognize Christians (I have worked with them). They are not Roman Catholic - they would be protestant. The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministries I went through a year program with, and they also reach out to the Jews primarily. Hananel House, and also Ammi Ministries do as well. Messianic Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah and they study Scripture because they believe Scripture to be the final authority, not an institution. I am not familiar with any group of Jews that went from Jewishness to Roman Catholicism, but as some of you have hinted at that, I'd be interested in their name. It seems a big jump to me.
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