I Have To Change Churches

[MithLuin]

Sometimes, a salesman is able to talk people into getting more than then need. Not just in security systems; in anything. So, it could have gone from, 'we need to change the locks and get new keys' to 'we need this fancy-schmancy system' almost by accident. I know that some people get funny ideas about what to spend money on when they know it's not their money being spent...but even when it *is* your money, you can fall into that.

And yes, it may be a control thing, but I try to think the best of people unless I have good reason to know otherwise, so...I'll just put it down to a big mistake based on the information so far.

Regardless of the other issues, the logistics of keeping disabled parishioners locked outside and unable to get into the building to attend Sunday mass seems a mistake. Perhaps an usher needs to be assigned to the elevator to let people in or something.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1321740990' post='2338338']
Sometimes, a salesman is able to talk people into getting more than then need. Not just in security systems; in anything. So, it could have gone from, 'we need to change the locks and get new keys' to 'we need this fancy-schmancy system' almost by accident. I know that some people get funny ideas about what to spend money on when they know it's not their money being spent...but even when it *is* your money, you can fall into that.

And yes, it may be a control thing, but I try to think the best of people unless I have good reason to know otherwise, so...I'll just put it down to a big mistake based on the information so far.

Regardless of the other issues, the logistics of keeping disabled parishioners locked outside and unable to get into the building to attend Sunday mass seems a mistake. Perhaps an usher needs to be assigned to the elevator to let people in or something.
[/quote]
I suspect you are right about the salesman thing. In this case, the salesman is also the parishioner who will be in charge of letting people in. We do have ushers who are supposed to open the elevator door. They just never seem to get to it. They are either late to mass themselves, forget the elevator is there, or just don't think it is worth their time.

[Guest hermanita]

Catherine--I have a little brother who can hack into anything. I'm tempted to connect you two. Praying for sanity fo occur.

[CatherineM]

I went over last night for the first time since the change. I had to chair the women's meeting. I'm still president for another month. They have added a new sign to the exterior elevator door. It basically says to not open the door or you will set off the alarm. One older woman who has had her hip replaced got there before they opened it from the inside, and she walked all the way around the building, and then went up the steps to the door, and then down the stairs to the church hall. I basically sat in my car until I saw that someone had opened it. At least she got to leave with me, so she didn't have to struggle up the stairs too. I did try to ask the incoming president about the situation. Her husband was the main force behind it. I asked her what was happening, who was breaking in, and she wouldn't say. She did say that the church is in so much financial trouble that it has been given 3 years to get solvent or it will be closed and sold. We are short exactly the same amount of money that the church used to get from the Casinos. Now that the Archbishop has finally put an end to all Catholic involvement in the Casinos, the church can't pay its electric bill.

I'm seriously concerned about the lack of stewardship of finances.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1323488593' post='2348357']
I went over last night for the first time since the change. I had to chair the women's meeting. I'm still president for another month. They have added a new sign to the exterior elevator door. It basically says to not open the door or you will set off the alarm. One older woman who has had her hip replaced got there before they opened it from the inside, and she walked all the way around the building, and then went up the steps to the door, and then down the stairs to the church hall. I basically sat in my car until I saw that someone had opened it. At least she got to leave with me, so she didn't have to struggle up the stairs too. I did try to ask the incoming president about the situation. Her husband was the main force behind it. I asked her what was happening, who was breaking in, and she wouldn't say. She did say that the church is in so much financial trouble that it has been given 3 years to get solvent or it will be closed and sold. We are short exactly the same amount of money that the church used to get from the Casinos. Now that the Archbishop has finally put an end to all Catholic involvement in the Casinos, the church can't pay its electric bill.

I'm seriously concerned about the lack of stewardship of finances.
[/quote]


Just because a person is a good Catholic, doesn't mean they are good with finances. It probably isn't easy to find people to take on some of the responsibilities who are actually competent at the work!

PS - by the way Catherine, I am really enjoying your book. I am about halfway through and want to make it last! Thank you for your generosity.

Edited December 10, 2011 by nunsense

[penguin31]

Reading the entire thread...while I genuinely believe in the best in people, I can't help but smell a rat here. A new security system was installed, the person whose husband was the main force behind it is now going to be President of your women's group...meanwhile, the salesman, aside from having a significant profit-stake in upselling your church on a system, is also going to be granted authority and power regarding letting people in. Something smells *extremely* phishy.

At a bare minimum, you're definitely on target that at least one person with control of financial aspects of your parish is clearly not very good with finances. In smaller parishes in particular it's extremely easy for someone who's genuinely not qualified for a responsibility to nonetheless be put in a position of exercising said responsibility. Also, if the membership of your parish - specifically the women's group - can raise the money needed for a ridiculously unnecessary and convoluted security system, they should easily be able to keep the lights on, at least if it's being competently managed.

I don't normally go down this route, but given your parish' financial troubles and internal political troubles, perhaps more sinister forces are at work in your parish than it first seems.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='penguin31' timestamp='1323489634' post='2348375']

I don't normally go down this route, but given your parish' financial troubles and internal political troubles, perhaps more sinister forces are at work in your parish than it first seems.
[/quote]

And Catherine is no stranger to 'sinister forces' from what I've been reading!

[ardillacid]

Sad that peeps need locks on churches :/

[Maximilianus]

I read earlier today that some churches ask for admission.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Maximilianus' timestamp='1323490423' post='2348387']
I read earlier today that some churches ask for admission.
[/quote]
I went to a church in Croatia that was one Euro to get in.

[Deus te Amat]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1323493675' post='2348416']
I went to a church in Croatia that was one Euro to get in.
[/quote]

The Churches in Europe don't charge for sacraments -- they charge for tourists. You can get in for free if you say you are going to Mass and prove that you will stay the whole time. They need to be able to pay for upkeep and restoration, something that your average non-Catholic tourist should be willing to do.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1323494257' post='2348422']

The Churches in Europe don't charge for sacraments -- they charge for tourists. You can get in for free if you say you are going to Mass and prove that you will stay the whole time. They need to be able to pay for upkeep and restoration, something that your average non-Catholic tourist should be willing to do.
[/quote]
Yep, so I didn't mind. Some of the churches in Venice charged, but none in Rome (besides the Vatican tour of course).

[Deus te Amat]

My art teacher was one of the most desired tour guides of Rome. We got all sorts of incredible tours/lectures for FREE! (Well, I suppose it was part of our tuition, but still, she was amazing).

/endhijack.

Sorry, Catherine

Edited December 10, 2011 by Deus_te_Amat

[Guest hermanita]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1321743678' post='2338354']
I suspect you are right about the salesman thing. In this case, the salesman is also the parishioner who will be in charge of letting people in. We do have ushers who are supposed to open the elevator door. They just never seem to get to it. They are either late to mass themselves, forget the elevator is there, or just don't think it is worth their time.
[/quote]
[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1323488593' post='2348357']
I went over last night for the first time since the change. I had to chair the women's meeting. I'm still president for another month. They have added a new sign to the exterior elevator door. It basically says to not open the door or you will set off the alarm. One older woman who has had her hip replaced got there before they opened it from the inside, and she walked all the way around the building, and then went up the steps to the door, and then down the stairs to the church hall. I basically sat in my car until I saw that someone had opened it. At least she got to leave with me, so she didn't have to struggle up the stairs too. I did try to ask the incoming president about the situation. Her husband was the main force behind it. I asked her what was happening, who was breaking in, and she wouldn't say. She did say that the church is in so much financial trouble that it has been given 3 years to get solvent or it will be closed and sold. We are short exactly the same amount of money that the church used to get from the Casinos. Now that the Archbishop has finally put an end to all Catholic involvement in the Casinos, the church can't pay its electric bill.

I'm seriously concerned about the lack of stewardship of finances.
[/quote]

So Wrong. Praying that some sense and compassion enters the situation. I know that you are an attorney but does Canada have an equivalent to the US [u]Amercians with Disabilities Act [/u]that may apply?

Edited December 10, 2011 by hermanita

[she_who_is_not]

Just an FYI because this might be relevant to the pham: Religious buildings are exempt from the Americans with Disabilities Act. They may choose to voluntarily comply but they are not compelled to comply. I had to research the religious exemption for a summer job, when the non-profit firm I worked for wanted to argue that an organization was not primarily religious in purpose, and therefore, could not claim the exemption for their building.

I know that this has no relevance to Catherine's situation, however, as the ADA has been brought up on this thread a couple of times and many people are very involved in parish life, I thought it might be useful information.

[CatherineM]

Canada doesn't have an ADA, and it wouldn't apply any way. I always wonder why we even have to discuss using laws to force churches to do Christian things.