What Is So Hard To Accept About The Catholic Faith

[Anna]

Quietfire, it's so nice to have you here.
I like your name, your avatar, and your posts.
Welcome.

DairyGirl,
If all faiths were simply assumptions, then none of us would possess Truth.
One Church was founded by Jesus Christ Himself: "...upon this rock, I will build [b]My Church[/b] and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
All [i]other belief systems[/i] are based on assumptions.

And you know what happens when we [i]assume[/i]: we make an [i]ass[/i] of [i]u[/i] and [i]me[/i].

Pax Christi. <><

[IcePrincessKRS]

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='May 2 2004, 10:21 PM'] wow, likos....that was deep. and insightful.

I cant add anything, cant explain right now how I ended up here because its far too personal to discuss now.
Maybe someday when I convert... well, not convert actually. More like receive Holy communion and be confirmed.

Its still a feeling right now. I know, I KNOW this is where I'm supposed to be. Everything is falling into place.

Someday....it'll be a great story though.

Peace. [/quote]

[Crusader_4]

Eucharist and Marian devotions are very hard to except coming from a Protestant background because there is really nothing in comparison in many of hte protestants church's unless you are an anglican in Canada.

[yezad]

God Bless
Jason [/QUOTE]
Is it scary? Because I noticed like a anger come out of him like it was making him upset not in a mean way but in a fearful way.

Is there fear?
Not Fear i believe what you wiil find is that as passionate as your are about your faith he is about his when you negativily attack somones personal relationship with Christ you envoke passion not anger. These are th things wars are fought over anger dosn't fuel war passion does.

Edited May 4, 2004 by yezad

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='yezad' date='May 3 2004, 08:12 PM'] God Bless
Jason [/QUOTE]
Is it scary? Because I noticed like a anger come out of him like it was making him upset not in a mean way but in a fearful way.

Is there fear?
Not Fear i believe what you wiil find is that as passionate as your are about your faith he is about his when you negativily attack somones personal relationship with Christ you envoke passion not anger. These are th things wars are fought over anger dosn't fuel war passion does. [/quote]
Passion? [b]Hate starts wars?[/b]

[yezad]

all though yours my be a vallid opinion it is opinion that i dont believe history will bear out.
however its not on topic the topic beeing dicussed is why passion is missunderstood as fear .
protastants believe in Jesus and yes he is the same Jesus. the same passion you have for your religion is the same passion we hve for ours.

Edited May 4, 2004 by yezad

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='yezad' date='May 3 2004, 08:40 PM']all though yours my be a vallid opinion it is opinion that i dont believe history will bear out.
however its not on topic the topic beeing dicussed is why passion is missunderstood as fear .
protastants  believe in Jesus  and yes he is the same Jesus. the same passion you have for your religion is the same passion we hve for ours.[/quote]
I sense some passion here?

It's all good brother, this is a debate table we talk things out.

Yes you are right I am passionate about Christ's Catholic Church as I'm sure there are many Protestant brothers and sisters who are passionate about their teachings.

If you tell someone something that they come to find out to be true (by Gods good grace) , are you saying there is no fear there?

I don't know, I never went through that? I know I've herd stories of people going through alot coming home to the Catholic Faith, thinking somethings wouldn't work out, but God's grace said other wise!

God Bless yezad,
Post back!
Jason

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='Crusader_4' date='May 3 2004, 04:13 PM'] Eucharist and Marian devotions are very hard to except coming from a Protestant background because there is really nothing in comparison in many of hte protestants church's unless you are an anglican in Canada. [/quote]
you know, what it is so hard to accept about the eucharistic devotion is that you believe to be eating God Himself...that, to any "protestant" Christian is nothing short of blasphemy.

we also hold communion to be a very solemn and serious tradition, but we do not think that we are eating Christ in any way.

in John 6, which we have a good job of arguing over... the Catholic Church says that Christ said that He was to be eaten and drunk... and the same goes for the Last Supper.

but Christ also said "I am the door..." does this mean that Christ is literally a door?

"I am the light of the world" does this mean that He is the sun in the sky?

"I am the true vine" does this mean that Christ is literally a vine?

"I am the root" does this mean that Christ is underground?

this is why we have a problem with the absolute transubstantiation of the host.

God bless.

[Dave]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='May 4 2004, 01:23 PM'] you know, what it is so hard to accept about the eucharistic devotion is that you believe to be eating God Himself...that, to any "protestant" Christian is nothing short of blasphemy.

we also hold communion to be a very solemn and serious tradition, but we do not think that we are eating Christ in any way.

in John 6, which we have a good job of arguing over... the Catholic Church says that Christ said that He was to be eaten and drunk... and the same goes for the Last Supper.

but Christ also said "I am the door..." does this mean that Christ is literally a door?

"I am the light of the world" does this mean that He is the sun in the sky?

"I am the true vine" does this mean that Christ is literally a vine?

"I am the root" does this mean that Christ is underground?

this is why we have a problem with the absolute transubstantiation of the host.

God bless. [/quote]
"I am the door" and "I am the vine" make sense as metaphors because Christ is like a door—we go to heaven through him—and he is also like a vine—we get our spiritual sap through him. But Christ takes John 6:35 far beyond symbolism by saying, "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed" (John 6:55).

He continues: "As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me" (John 6:57). The Greek word used for "eats" (trogon) is very blunt and has the sense of "chewing" or "gnawing." This is not the language of metaphor.

In addition, in the language of that time, to eat one's body or drink one's blood in a figurative sense meant to slander and betray. So if Jesus were speaking figuratively, he would've been telling his audience that to have eternal life they must slander and betray Him. That's the height of absurdity!

[the lumberjack]

a commentary from Blue Letter Bible:

[quote]They strove among themselves; they whispered in each other’s ears their dissatisfaction: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Christ spoke (v. 51) of giving his flesh for us, to suffer and die; but they, without due consideration, understood it of his giving it to us, to be eaten, which gave occasion to Christ to tell them that, however what he said was otherwise intended, yet even that also of eating of his flesh was no such absurd thing (if rightly understood) as prima facie—in the first instance, they took it to be. These Jews, understand it of a corporal and carnal eating of Christ’s body, like Nicodemus, ch. 3, 4.

[b]The Lord’s supper was [u]not yet[/u] instituted, and therefore it could have no reference to that; it is a spiritual eating and drinking that is here spoken of, not a sacramental.[/b]

It is misunderstood by many ignorant carnal people, who hence infer that, if they take the sacrament when they die, they shall certainly go to heaven, which, as it makes many that are weak causelessly uneasy if they want it, so it makes many that are wicked causelessly easy if they have it.[/quote]

God bless.

[Livin_the_MASS]

Think LJ, Christ cannot lie He is Truth, when he held the bread up after He blessed it what did the Truth say, "This is my body" and the cup "This is my blood" He did not say this is bread pretend it's my body, come on LJ? He can't lie and if He ever spoke in a parables or said something symbolic He explained it right away.

Read John Chapter 6!

"This is my body" ...... "This is my blood." "Those who know the truth hear my voice"

He is Truth, It is His Body Blood Soul and Divinity in the Most Holy Eucharist

God Bless brother, but the Truth has spoken, take His words to heart like they were meant to be taken.


Jason

[the lumberjack]

still waiting, Dave.

and Jason, for the sake of charity, if I don't respond to you...don't take it to the heart.

God bless.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='May 4 2004, 02:33 PM'] still waiting, Dave.

and Jason, for the sake of charity, if I don't respond to you...don't take it to the heart.

God bless. [/quote]
Oh sorry I didn't know it was only for Dave?

If you don't respond thats ok, I just know that I gave witness to the Truth and you can't go against the Truth. Now that's the Truth.


Saying with charity, just telling the truth!

God Bless brother
Jason

[Dave]

[quote]They strove among themselves; they whispered in each other’s ears their dissatisfaction: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Christ spoke (v. 51) of giving his flesh for us, to suffer and die; but they, without due consideration, understood it of his giving it to us, to be eaten, which gave occasion to Christ to tell them that, however what he said was otherwise intended, yet even that also of eating of his flesh was no such absurd thing (if rightly understood) as prima facie—in the first instance, they took it to be. These Jews, understand it of a corporal and carnal eating of Christ’s body, like Nicodemus, ch. 3, 4.

The Lord’s supper was not yet instituted, and therefore it could have no reference to that; it is a spiritual eating and drinking that is here spoken of, not a sacramental.

It is misunderstood by many ignorant carnal people, who hence infer that, if they take the sacrament when they die, they shall certainly go to heaven, which, as it makes many that are weak causelessly uneasy if they want it, so it makes many that are wicked causelessly easy if they have it.[/quote]

So what if the Lord's Supper hadn't been instituted at that time? Jesus was pointing to what was going to happen in the future. And the commentator who thinks Catholics believe they'll go to heaven just be receiving Holy Communion at death is just plain wrong. It's not a guarantee of heaven. Rather, in Holy Communion we receive innumerable graces, graces that we sorely need at that last moment, when Satan is doing all he can to drag us away from God one last time.

[Katholikos]

L. J. and all,

The Catholic Church was born c. A.D. 30 at Pentecost.

The first words in the New Testament concerning the Eucharist are in 1 Corinthians 10 and 11, written c. A.D. 56.

The Corinthians were not hearing these words from Paul for the first time: "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?" (1 Cor 10:16). St. Paul is asking a rhetorical question; he already knew the answer. He had taught them the doctrine of the Eucharist orally when he founded the Church at Corinth about A.D. 51. The Universal (Catholic) Church had already been offering the Holy Sacrifice and receiving the Eucharist for about a quarter of a century when these words were written.

In 1 Corinthians 11:23-30, Paul tells his converts "For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you (past tense) . . . " and he proceeds to [u]remind[/u] them of Christ's institution of the Eucharist. "This is my body . . . This is my blood." And he warns them that many of them had sickened and died because they had received the Body of the Lord unworthily. He cautioned them about eating and drinking judgement upon themselves "not discerning the Body."

The Gospel of John was written c. A.D. 90-100.

The Church did not wait 60 years to read the Gospel of John, and THEN decide to take John 6 literally. The Church had been offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and receiving the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ from the beginning of its existence in A.D. 30. Why? Because that's what Jesus Christ taught the Apostles (orally) and that's what the Apostles themselves believed and taught the Church (orally). The Apostles were the leaders and teachers of the newborn Church. [b][u]St. John had been teaching the doctrine of the Eucharist to the Church orally for 60 years before he wrote his Gospel.[/b][/u]

One has only to read Ignatius of Antioch, who was a student of St. John the Evangelist, ordained a bishop by St. Peter, and a friend of St. Paul's to know how the first Christians understood the teaching of both St. Paul and St. John. Three quotes will suffice for illustration (there are many more):

"From Eucharist and prayer they [the Donatists] hold aloof, because they do not confess that [u]the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ[/u], which suffered for our sins, and which the Father in His loving kindness raised from the dead. And so, those who question the gift of God perish in their contentiousness" [i](To the Smyrnaeans)[/i].

"Take care, then, to partake of one Eucharist; [u]for one is the Flesh of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and one the cup to unite us with His Blood . . .[/u]" [i](To the Philadelphians).[/i]

"I have no taste for corruptible food or for the delights of this life. [i]Bread of God[/i] is what I desire, that is, [u]the Flesh of Jesus Christ[/u] . . . and for my drink I desire [u]His Blood[/u] . . ." [i](to the Romans)[/i].

Now, where do you suppose St. Ignatius got the idea that the Eucharist was the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ? From his teacher and mentor, of course, the man who wrote the Gospel of John. Ignatius' letters to the Churches were written between A.D. 107 and 110, while he was being taken, under guard, to the Coliseum in Rome, to be thrown to the lions. This was only 10-15 years after the death of St. John.

Don't be like the Donatists and "perish in your contentiousness." Accept the "gift of God," His own Divine Life.

Your "Blue Letter Bible" is dead wrong.

Ave Cor Mariae, Likos