Abstinance Only Education And Relation To Teen Pregnancy In Us

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1322705159' post='2342973']
in my highschool, planned parenthood swept in every year to teach contraception only....


abstinence was not in their vocabulary
[/quote]

Sad. I guess I was lucky to live in the only red district in my state.

[MissScripture]

Even at my Catholic school, we glossed over abstinence and moved on to how to use various contraceptives, all topped off with the epic slide show of various STDs. I think they considered the STD slide show part of the "abstinence" stuff.

[BG45]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1322706614' post='2342992']
Even at my Catholic school, we glossed over abstinence and moved on to how to use various contraceptives, all topped off with the epic slide show of various STDs. I think they considered the STD slide show part of the "abstinence" stuff.
[/quote]

My public school mentioned abstinence on the first day, then spent the next four of our 1-hour per day meetings on various methods. On the last day we did the STD effects slide show directly before lunch. Few people ate that day...

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1322706314' post='2342983']


Or just a Dad with a shotgun. Who knows how to use it.
[/quote]

I have a friend, we'll call her A., who has like 5 brothers and a dad. When she brought her fiancee home as a surprise, she was so excited to be engaged that she forgot it was gun cleaning night. I love her fiancee C to death, but he apparently turned white as a sheet at the sight of six future in laws with weapons.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1322708138' post='2343024']
I have a friend, we'll call her A., who has like 5 brothers and a dad. When she brought her fiancee home as a surprise, she was so excited to be engaged that she forgot it was gun cleaning night. I love her fiancee C to death, but he apparently turned white as a sheet at the sight of six future in laws with weapons.
[/quote]
I like the sound of gun cleaning night. This concept has been noted and filed for future use.

[BigJon16]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1322708138' post='2343024']

I have a friend, we'll call her A., who has like 5 brothers and a dad. When she brought her fiancee home as a surprise, she was so excited to be engaged that she forgot it was gun cleaning night. I love her fiancee C to death, but he apparently turned white as a sheet at the sight of six future in laws with weapons.
[/quote]


hahahahaha.

[BG45]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1322708452' post='2343032']
I like the sound of gun cleaning night. This concept has been noted and filed for future use.
[/quote]

Especially if you and Katy have daughters?
[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1322708483' post='2343033']
hahahahaha.
[/quote]

I laughed too, right in C's face when he told me.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1322708559' post='2343034']

Especially if you and Katy have daughters?
[/quote]
Absolutely. Although to be honest, I don't feel like I even need an excuse...

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1322703468' post='2342962']
So logically all kids should have to go through it because some parents are derelict in their duties.
[/quote]

I dont see why not. I recognize that while some parents could feasibly teach their children math and grammar, many are either incapable or over their head past a certain level, or just wont bother to do it. Except the difference between poorly educated and properly educated in math and sex ed is a little more serious, getting pregnant/STD over improperly calculating the tip.

So, kids are defaulted to a standard of learning.

in both cases i believe you can get around that if you either want to homeschool, or teach your children about sex on your own, im pretty sure that happens(though maybe not everywhere)

so what is the problem?

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1322706240' post='2342981']
What does that have to with the validity of the teaching of abstinence?
[/quote]

that post was in response to a question about whether or not parents or teachers should be teaching the kids about sex, not on abstinence.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Jesus_lol

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322716131' post='2343091']

I dont see why not. I recognize that while some parents could feasibly teach their children math and grammar, many are either incapable or over their head past a certain level, or just wont bother to do it. Except the difference between poorly educated and properly educated in math and sex ed is a little more serious, getting pregnant/STD over improperly calculating the tip.

So, kids are defaulted to a standard of learning.

in both cases i believe you can get around that if you either want to homeschool, or teach your children about sex on your own, im pretty sure that happens(though maybe not everywhere)

so what is the problem?

[/quote]

My problem is that when parents don't want their kids to be getting the sex ed that some politicians want them to get then they get punished. Not to mention that the logical conclusion of your 'parents are idiots' post is that the state ultimately decides what's best for kids, and you are going to play by their rules whether you like it or not. Is that really a good idea?

[tinytherese]

Abstinence only education tends to focus on how if you have sex you can get a disease or get pregnant, yet ignores other consequences. The very word abstinence has a negative connotation to it. Students need to be told about the beauty of saving themselves for marriage and the benefits that they can receive by practicing chastity. They also need to be taught more than simply not to have sex- but how to avoid temptation, setting boundaries, how to decide if someone is even worth going on a date with, how to stay strong in their choice, things that they can do on a date that are not sexual, etc.

In order for that to happen, there definitely needs to be a cultural revolution and right now our culture thinks that everyone is having sex and anyone who isn't is just putting it off until later in the relationship yet before the wedding. Those who wait for marriage are usually seen as freaks. People don't think that anyone, let alone teenagers are capable of controlling themselves. Our culture has mistaken notions on what love is and what freedom is (doing whatever I want whenever I want.)

By telling the facts about contraception, meaning how there are health risks of using them and how they are nowhere near as affective as we tend to think they are, I don't see how a teacher, nurse, or doctor could honestly call it comprehensive sex ed unless they just plain didn't beleive that the students were capable of self-control. It would have to turn into chastity education or at least "Well if you do it before marriage you're playing with fire. Don't say we didn't warn you."

Even if the sexual education classes are excellent, they're not enough. Kids walk out of school and what do they see and hear in the media in regards to sex? It sure ain't chastity! Also, the friends and aquiantances that the kids have can have a big impact on them in regards to how they behave. Peer pressure is big and pressure can come from who the kids are dating too. That's where (hopefully) their parents come in.

It's a shame how lots of parents today just assume that schools and churches (if they attend of course) will educate their kids for them and raise them. (By churches I mean that merely dropping them off at CCD, PSR, youth group, or sunday school that their kids will automatically take their faith seriously and know it properly.) Parents are supposed to be the primary educators of their children. Is it hard to do? Definitely, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. If you want your kids to be chaste, then be chaste yourself. The example of parents and guardians sure as anything matters. So does how they raise the kids. They need to be involved in their lives. Know what kind of music they listen to, the books they read, what they watch on t.v. and in movies, who they spend time with, etc.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1322717266' post='2343095']

My problem is that when parents don't want their kids to be getting the sex ed that some politicians want them to get then they get punished. Not to mention that the logical conclusion of your 'parents are idiots' post is that the state ultimately decides what's best for kids, and you are going to play by their rules whether you like it or not. Is that really a good idea?
[/quote]


as i said before, i am pretty sure you have the option to opt out of the school's sex ed for your children. so, if that is the case, then what is the problem?

[Archaeology cat]

The sex-Ed scene in Mean Girls was only partly a parody of sex Ed in the US. I grew up in a very Baptist area, where the impression given was that sex is evil and dirty at all times, just a necessary evil within marriage. Of course we didn't buy that, so is it any wonder that it didn't work?

[MithLuin]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322719410' post='2343099']
as i said before, i am pretty sure you have the option to opt out of the school's sex ed for your children. so, if that is the case, then what is the problem?
[/quote]

This depends a lot upon which school you are talking about.

And, realistically, you can't actually opt out. Sure, you can have your kid sent to the library during that class, but then what they get is the hearsay from all their classmates, which is (obviously) an even more questionable presentation of the material.

I think that parents have a responsibility to teach their kids the meaning of sex and what it's for. Parents who are too embarrassed or too busy to have these conversations will, of course, be leaving it up to their kids to figure it out on their own. Forget the sex ed class at school; now you're reduced to TV and what their peers are saying.

I think that knowledge is important. I can discuss the different types of birth control, how they work, some of the foibles associated with them, etc....and I'm a good Catholic with no intention of ever using any of them. And if you get a bunch of moms of young children together, you *will* be discussing this, so no point in being ignorant about it. Something like 99% of women in the US use artificial birth control of one kind or another, so...not doing so is very much countercultural.

But what is needed is a cultural revolution where people are taught the value of LOVING one another...and what that actually means. I think love is one of the most abused words in the English language, so that with Inigo Montoya, I'd say, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

And yes...supervision can prevent a lot of heartache. You watch your toddlers so they don't accidentally set the house on fire or fall out the 2nd story window. Nixing the opportunity for two teens to wind up behind a locked bedroom door is part of what it means to be a parent. Lead us not into temptation and all of that.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1322701665' post='2342945']
What if someone objects morally and philosophically to a government mandated drinking age?
[/quote]
Then he should object to that unjust law and protest by doing the very thing from which he is unjustly forbidden.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1322758698' post='2343203']
Then he should object to that unjust law and protest by doing the very thing from which he is unjustly forbidden.
[/quote]
[img]http://chzbronies.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-brony-im-ok-with-this.jpg[/img]

[Amppax]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1322708138' post='2343024']
I have a friend, we'll call her A., who has like 5 brothers and a dad. When she brought her fiancee home as a surprise, she was so excited to be engaged that she forgot it was gun cleaning night. I love her fiancee C to death, but he apparently turned white as a sheet at the sight of six future in laws with weapons.
[/quote]

It's a good thing that C's future in law's didn't love him to death that night.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Amppax

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1322684376' post='2342824']
short answer: we need a whole cultural shift for abstinence only education to be effective. The hypersexualization of the West along with the banalization of sexuality has become so deeply embedded that telling kids at school not to have sex is not gonna cut it.

Sometimes people will ask "well I know you don't want kids having sex, but if they DO don't you want them to be as safe as possible?" And my answer to that is I don't want people being objectified whether they consent to being used or not. It's unhealthy for the individual and society. I also don't think throwing a condom on = safe sex. In fact now they're calling it "safer sex" because they concede a condom can't even protect you from everything physically, much less psychologically/emotionally.

To me the question is like asking "well we know you don't want people driving drunk, but if they DO wouldn't you rather them wear a seatbelt?" I get where you're coming from stevil but I think you have such an opposing viewpoint that I don't know how much fruitful discussion can happen here.

Typically Catholics advocate self-control, which is laughed at in an instant-gratification society.
[/quote]
Good response.

Where media, peers, and society-at-large are constantly bombarding kids 24-7 with a message of hedonism and and that sex-sex-sex! is the be-all and end-all of everything, and that if you aren't busy fornicating, it means you're either a loser or gay, one school class saying "don't do it," isn't likely to have that much of an impact.

Strong, healthy families and community where there is strong Faith and sense of morality can and does have an impact.

Personally, I think all classroom "sex ed" tends to be at best a waste of time and taxpayer dollars.

(And it should also be remembered that as Catholics, we don't regard the primary reason for chastity/abstinence before marriage to be avoidance of pregnancy.)

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322698919' post='2342932']
Well as soon as it starts working, let us know.
[/quote]
[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322699128' post='2342934']

Abstinence never fails. But teaching it sure seems to fail pretty hard.


which is probably why, in machine shops they put guards over things instead of just saying, dont put your hand near there.
[/quote]
Where I work, quite a bit of time and effort is spent teaching safe practices.


Before the Pill and the sexual revolution of the '60s, there was not mandatory sex ed in most schools, nor any massive campaign to make rubbers and contraceptives available to kids everywhere, yet rates of teen pregnancy were much lower than they are today.
The difference was that society was not quite so hyper-sexualized, and more people, and society in general tended to believe in and reinforce "traditional" Christian morality.

And, no, I'm not claiming that that period in history was a perfect utopia without sin, simply that belief in Christian sexual morality and mores is far more effective than bombarding kids with condoms and instruction in their use. The easy availability of contraceptives in our society was followed by a massive increase in fornication, STDs, and abortions.


To use an example closer to home, neither myself, nor the community of conservative Catholic families I grew up with had any kind of formal classroom sex-ed, yet among this group, teen were (and are) extremely rare, and STDs unheard of. This is in contrast to the local public schools, where teen pregnancy is rampant.

There was likewise very little extra-marital pregnancy in the orthodox Catholic college I attended, where sexual morality was generally taken seriously by both students and administration.

I'm sure posting this will draw mockery from some, but the fact remains that when virtue and morality are taught and taken seriously, it does have an effect on behavior, and is more effective at reducing teen pregnancy and STDs than promoting condoms and contraceptives (whose use hardly requires a classroom course anyway).

[Socrates]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1322702115' post='2342946']
I don't understand why it is the government's job to teach kids about sex, and not the parents'.
[/quote]
Didn't you know that one of the main jobs of government is to ensure responsibility-free sexual hedonism for the citizenry?

Kids need to be given condoms and instructed in their use so they will be able to fornicate with promiscuous abandon without getting pregnant. Then, in the event that the rubber breaks, fails, or is forgotten, the state needs to ensure easy access to subsidized abortions, so they won't be punished with a baby. And if heterosexual intercourse ain't your thing, the state must give legal benefits to "gay marriage" so you won't feel left out.

[stevil]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1322701172' post='2342943']
So perhaps we might consider a compromise for the public square: sex is OK, but you can't actually buy any condoms until you're 18/21/45/whatever, and you'll get busted/fined if you provide them to minors. That way all parties involved will be disgruntled and unhappy. Huzzah for compromise!
[/quote]
Hmmm, this seems like a faulty analogy.

Condoms are not like alcohol. Alcohol is what get a person drunk, sperm is what gets a girl pregnant (not condoms). You could try to outlaw sperm but that would be difficult given that most males naturally have the ability to produce the stuff. If you believe there is a god and that god designed the human body and if you believe that humans shouldn't have children until marriage then this ability to produce sperm outside of marriage seems like a serious design flaw. Maybe the designer wasn't think ahead during creation?

Anyway, the problem is not condoms, it is sperm and getting that into a woman, whereby she can get pregnant. But if this were the problem, then why is the Catholic church against masturbation or gay sex, or oral sex. It just doesn't make any sense.

Sex education is a means to inform people. Inform them of options and to inform them about the success and risk inherent on those options.
If you teach a person that condoms can fail, that a certain percentage of the time pregnancies can happen, don't you think this would be good information for adolescent children going through the confusing time in their life where they are becoming sexually attracted to the opposite sex.

[CatherineM]

We had really good sex education in Catholic school starting in 5th grade. The nuns wanted to make sure we all knew exactly what it was that we were supposed to be doing.