Disappointment In Discernment

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='StClare_OraProNobis' timestamp='1325226247' post='2359868']
Any else here experience a lot of disappointment when the results of your discernment were not what you had hoped for? Any advice for how to move on? In particular in my circumstance I was in the convent for nearly 2 years and then had to leave for health reasons and have been told clearly that I do not have a religious vocation. Makes me wonder for what purpose I am here at all if God does not want the highest level of intimacy possible with me.
[/quote]

Clare, having had to deal with this recently, I know what you are going through. For 4 years, I had nothing but the hope of living life as a religious. I sought out the religious community that I felt attracted to, only to be turned away time and time again because of my health issues. I continued to search, though, hoping that my desires weren't in vain. The last community I visited seemed to be the one I was looking for. I still remember how peaceful I felt there. But when I asked for permission to enter, it was not given because the community believed that I did not have a vocation. I am not attracted any other orders. I have looked at all the ones I was even remotely attracted to. Being a religious does not appear to be in the cards for me and I had to make my peace with that (which I have). Believe me, it was difficult. There are still days (like yesterday) where I long to join a convent, but then I remember that God wanted me to discern for a reason. I don't yet know what that reason is, but I have an inkling. One of my most favorite saints is St. Therese. Her parents continue to be excellent role models for me and they, too, were turned away from religious life. I believe that if I had not discerned, I might not be the woman I am today. I also believe that if I get married, I will be better prepared to teach my children about religious life and the priesthood because I discerned myself! I didn't know about religious life growing up because my parents never discerned.

Please don't feel like you are any less of a beloved child of God because you cannot be in religious life. He loves you just the same. Maybe He just wants you to consider other vocations like consecrated single life (including consecrated virginity) or marriage? Pray about it and find a spiritual director to guide you. God doesn't inspire unrealizable desires (like St. Therese said). If you aspire to sanctity, the Holy Spirit will help you get there!

[StClare_OraProNobis]

Thanks all! I am feeling a bit better today about everything than I did last night when I originally posted. It seems like the sadness comes in waves. It really is the sense of being rejected by God that is the hardest when it hits. I know in one sense that God has not really rejected me, but it still feels that way. I appreciate your prayers and wise advice!

Edited December 30, 2011 by StClare_OraProNobis

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1325269567' post='2360038']
I can see why this gets confusing, because some Catholics do have a very hierarchical view of vocation that isn't helpful at all. One of my friends (an elderly nun) told me that ever since she put on the habit she has had people approaching her with regard bordering on reverence, when these same people might be quite off-hand and lukewarm with the other people in their lives. I have even caught myself doing it - going out of my way to be extra nice to someone I meet just because she is a sister. This is not how God sees us. You mustn't let other people's glorification of religious life make you feel any less beloved by God.

[/quote]

This is soooo true. Religious do have a higher calling in the sense that their vocation is nearest to the life we will live in heaven. That does not make individual religious more worthy of respect than anyone else, though. I am all for respecting them, but I totally got that ooey gooey love feeling from SO many people when I was in religious life, especially being an extern in a cloistered community (being one of the few that could physically be fawned over-- thankfully I was formed enough not to let any of it go to my head). It really is not a good message to send people, because I believe that many, many men and women feel inadequate for having chosen marriage or single life as their vocation. A very wise nun once reminded me that any mother can be a holier person than any nun, it just depends on how well the individual in any state of life is following his or her vocation. Personal holiness has nothing to do with the vocation one chooses.



[quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1325270397' post='2360045']
Perhaps disappointment is one of the ways that we can more fully die to self, and so be closer to Jesus as a result maybe you can be closer to Him through this disappointment, than even if you had become a nun. And maybe you would become a nun in the future. Have hope Trust in God's goodness, - all He does is with love, to help us become saints.
[/quote]

This is true in the sense that it really knocks you off of your idea that your life is planned out. Disappointments like these prevent us from getting too comfortable. When we get knocked out into the cold, we have to trust God in a whole new way that we never had to trust him in before. In retrospect I have really looked at my disappointment as an amazing gift, because if that had never happened, I would have never been challenged to put my life in his hands AGAIN, starting over, and I would not have had to wake up every morning and say "I know you're going to take care of me." Life would have just one on pretty smoothly without that kick in the pantaloons, and so there's a lot to be grateful for after the initial shock of a disappointment goes away.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Totus Tuus

[marigold]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1325278347' post='2360095']
This is soooo true. Religious do have a higher calling in the sense that their vocation is nearest to the life we will live in heaven. That does not make individual religious more worthy of respect than anyone else, though. I am all for respecting them, but I totally got that ooey gooey love feeling from SO many people when I was in religious life, especially being an extern in a cloistered community (being one of the few that could physically be fawned over-- thankfully I was formed enough not to let any of it go to my head). I[b]t really is not a good message to send people, because I believe that many, many men and women feel inadequate for having chosen marriage or single life as their vocation. A very wise nun once reminded me that any mother can be a holier person than any nun, it just depends on how well the individual in any state of life is following his or her vocation. Personal holiness has nothing to do with the vocation one chooses.[/b]

[/quote]


Thank you for saying this. As my friend likes to joke, 'The person who has raised six kids to adulthood is the true saint.' :-)

[MarysLittleFlower]

[quote name='StClare_OraProNobis' timestamp='1325278271' post='2360094']
Thanks all! I am feeling a bit better today about everything than I did last night when I originally posted. It seems like the sadness comes in waves. It really is the sense of being rejected by God that is the hardest when it hits. I know in one sense that God has not really rejected me, but it still feels that way. I appreciate your prayers and wise advice!
[/quote]

I know, I myself have a fear of this even though I haven't even ever applied to a community! Even though in my mind, I know that it's not at all being rejected by God. And really, it's not even though it feels that way. Even the fact that you want God, means that He wants you to be close to Him, we love because He loved us first. He loves you greatly, He loves each soul as if they were the only one. We can love Him through our intentions and wanting to follow Him, but the best way is by doing His will, even if it's not what we had planned. This quote helped me once I hope it encourages you too

"Nothing can so terrify us, as much as Jesus Christ can reassure us. Let my sins surround me, let my fears of the future accuse me, let the demons lay their snares for me. As long as I beg mercy of Jesus Christ, who is all kindness, who has loved me even until death, I cannot lose confidence; for I see myself so highly prized that a God gave Himself for me.
My Jesus, safe haven for those who seek you out in the storm; my vigilant shepherd, those who do not trust You are deceiving themselves, if only they have the will to amend their lives. That is why You said: Here I am, don't be afraid: I am He who troubles and who consoles. Sometimes I put persons in scenes of desolation that seem like hell; but then I pull them out and console them. I am your advocate; I have made your cause My own. I am your guarantor; I have come to pay your debts. I am your Lord, who redeemed you with My blood, not to abandon you, but to enrich you, having ransomed you at a great price. [b]How shall I flee from those who seek Me, when I went forth to meet those who sought to outrage Me?[/b] I did not turn away My face from those who struck Me; and shall I turn it from those who would adore Me? How can My children doubt that I love them, seeing Me in the hands of My enemies out of love for them? Whom have I ever despised that loved Me? Whom have I ever abandoned that sought my help? I go out in search even of those who do not seek Me."
John of Avila

[Sarah147]

[quote name='StClare_OraProNobis' timestamp='1325226247' post='2359868']
Any else here experience a lot of disappointment when the results of your discernment were not what you had hoped for? Any advice for how to move on? In particular in my circumstance I was in the convent for nearly 2 years and then had to leave for health reasons and have been told clearly that I do not have a religious vocation.

Makes me wonder for what purpose I am here at all if God does not want the highest level of intimacy possible with me.
[/quote]

I was very disappointed when it didn't work out with the SsEW around Sept/Oct 2011. But, now, after more soul-searching and growing and this time looking at two other orders, I've become more open to other vocations, which is a very healthy thing, and as my spiritual director said, will help me find God's will faster.

How did I move on? I went on a retreat somewhere and met some really godly men....it planted a seed and has led to much meditating and praying about marriage, to the point that I can happily picture being married and sacrifising for a family. I can picture working on a holy marriage. Now I am content with RL or marriage. Still some fears about both vocations, but I get worried about a lot of things anyway.

So, if God calls me to RL, praised be God. If to marriage, praised be God.

Your last sentence strikes me. God wants you TOTALLY! He wants you as His beloved SAINT! Even Saint Gemma wasn't a religious but God bestowed many graces on her! No matter your vocation, focus on growing in holiness and intimacy with Him. I know married people that are very spiritual and very close to Jesus. Expect not to meet too many people walking the narrow path. Let nothing stop you from sainthood!

Edited December 30, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='marigold' timestamp='1325279602' post='2360104']
Thank you for saying this. As my friend likes to joke, 'The person who has raised six kids to adulthood is the true saint.' :-)
[/quote]

Exactly. And likewise, a nun who did what she was supposed to do as a nun is a true saint. It's just about doing what you're supposed to be doing for your vocation. St. Josemaria would admonish women who tried to live like nuns when they had families. It's more important and holy for a woman to cook dinner for her family than to go to adoration if that means she won't have time to cook dinner.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1325291128' post='2360193']
Exactly. And likewise, a nun who did what she was supposed to do as a nun is a true saint. It's just about doing what you're supposed to be doing for your vocation. St. Josemaria would admonish women who tried to live like nuns when they had families. It's more important and holy for a woman to cook dinner for her family than to go to adoration if that means she won't have time to cook dinner.
[/quote]

Wow. I hadn't thought of it like that before, about helping the family being more important that adoration, etc. What's the proper balance according to St. Josemaria?

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1325291128' post='2360193']
Exactly. And likewise, a nun who did what she was supposed to do as a nun is a true saint. It's just about doing what you're supposed to be doing for your vocation. St. Josemaria would admonish women who tried to live like nuns when they had families. It's more important and holy for a woman to cook dinner for her family than to go to adoration if that means she won't have time to cook dinner.
[/quote]

Exactly what St Martha said to Our Lord!!




but I'm only teasing you. It is a good point, but as Jesus pointed out to her, she was worrying about many things, so I would suggest a balance. Better if things could be arranged so the woman could get some Adoration in as well as dinner... and that might mean a little rescheduling or help from others or a take-out meal one night a week, etc....

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1325292877' post='2360224']
Exactly what St Martha said to Our Lord!!




but I'm only teasing you. It is a good point, but as Jesus pointed out to her, she was worrying about many things, so I would suggest a balance. Better if things could be arranged so the woman could get some Adoration in as well as dinner... and that might mean a little rescheduling or help from others or a take-out meal one night a week, etc....
[/quote]

If you think I'm suggesting something other than balance, you misread what I said. My point is precisely that doing things that are outside of our vocation at the moment we are meant to be doing them causes a lack of balance. I never said that she should be at home cooking every single night. Everyone needs prayer time. But moms are certainly not called -under almost any circumstances- to pray as much as nuns. [i]that[/i] was my point.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1325292274' post='2360216']
Wow. I hadn't thought of it like that before, about helping the family being more important that adoration, etc. What's the proper balance according to St. Josemaria?
[/quote]
[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1325293038' post='2360228']
If you think I'm suggesting something other than balance, you misread what I said. My point is precisely that doing things that are outside of our vocation at the moment we are meant to be doing them causes a lack of balance. I never said that she should be at home cooking every single night. Everyone needs prayer time. But moms are certainly not called -under almost any circumstances- to pray as much as nuns. [i]that[/i] was my point.
[/quote]

As you can see from JL's post quoted above yours, she also wanted to make sure that you meant balance. Sometimes a person can carry anything to extreme and think it is a good thing, but as Our Lord explained to St Martha, sometimes what seems like the right thing isn't the right thing (at least for someone else), so as long as we understand that, there's no problem. Someone might think a mother was being neglectful if she felt she just had to go off to Adoration at a particular time instead of making dinner one night... it would be good if we never judged each other of course, but it does happen, just look at St Martha... and she was a saint!

No offence intended.

[beatitude]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1325292274' post='2360216']
Wow. I hadn't thought of it like that before, about helping the family being more important that adoration, etc. What's the proper balance according to St. Josemaria?
[/quote]

It's not something you can work out mathematically. You just have to try and think as Jesus thought: he always did what was most needed at that point in time. He worked in the carpentry shop, spent time with his family, healed sick people, taught the faith in busy places, and withdrew into the wilderness to pray. It wasn't, "Which thing is most important overall, and how do I plan them on my calendar?" but, "What is needed now?" Perfect faithfulness to the present moment and the God we find there - that is prayer.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1325293842' post='2360246']
It's not something you can work out mathematically. You just have to try and think as Jesus thought: he always did what was most needed at that point in time. He worked in the carpentry shop, spent time with his family, healed sick people, taught the faith in busy places, and withdrew into the wilderness to pray. It wasn't, "Which thing is most important overall, and how do I plan them on my calendar?" but, "What is needed now?" Perfect faithfulness to the present moment and the God we find there - that is prayer.
[/quote]

This. I think the balance is different for every mom. It's not just the amount of children she has, but also her health and what she can handle that dictate what she does in her daily life.

[StClare_OraProNobis]

Since leaving the convent I feel like my prayer life has been stripped away from me. (I do still pray, but not like I was able to before.) I think this in one reason I can not imagine getting married. It seems like then I would have even less of a chance for prayer.

Thanks to all for your responses!

Edited December 31, 2011 by StClare_OraProNobis

[Nunsense]

[quote name='StClare_OraProNobis' timestamp='1325294261' post='2360259']
Since leaving the convent I feel like my prayer life has been stripped away from me. (I do still pray, but not like I was able to before.) I think this in one reason I can not imagine getting married. It seems like then I would have even less of a chance for prayer.

Thanks to all for your responses!
[/quote]

I don't necessarily think that trying to make this decision right now is a good idea. Since you still have to process the grief and other feelings that are overwhelming you right now, leave all thoughts of possible life states to another time. This might be a time when you do need a lot of prayer to deal with what has happened, but there may come a time when you feel you are ready to interact more with others again and then marriage might actually seem appealing to you.

Just take it one step at a time. I know that I needed an intensive period of prayer recently, but after eight months of it, I got a job at a hostel for the elderly and really found myself enjoying all the interactions with staff and residents. I didn't feel the loss of prayer then because working was a type of prayer.

Be gentle with yourself right now.

[Nunsense]

I use the words 'right now' too much.

[MithLuin]

[quote name='StClare_OraProNobis' timestamp='1325294261' post='2360259'] Since leaving the convent I feel like my prayer life has been stripped away from me. (I do still pray, but not like I was able to before.) I think this in one reason I can not imagine getting married. It seems like then I would have even less of a chance for prayer. Thanks to all for your responses! [/quote]

This is very true. I mean no disrespect to the faithful Catholic moms out there, but it is really much harder to pray when you are caring for babies/toddlers every time you go to mass. Depending on how whiny/disruptive they are being, you could very well 'miss' the consecration! I'm not saying this is an every week occurrence, but I do think that single people sometimes take for granted their ability to go to mass and [i]just focus on the mass[/i]. And yes, you may find a way to work rosaries into your busy day, but you're not exactly going to sit down and recite morning and evening prayer if you're supposed to be feeding your kids at that time (which you are). So, your prayer life turns into much more of the 'popcorn' prayer variety, shooting off little prayers throughout your day when/where you have a chance to.

Likewise, going from religious life to single life, I could see how it would feel as though your days are just too hectic and 'busy' to squeeze all that prayer time in that you took for granted in the convent. And so, naturally...your prayer life changes. Different does not have to be less fruitful, though, so the goal is to find a 'way' that works for you, in this time and place in your life...even if you are still acutely longing for what you had before. In this way, you can transform your current life.

A slim little book I would recommend for you would be Br. Lawrence's [url=http://www.practicegodspresence.com/brotherlawrence/index.html]The Practice of the Presence of God[/url]. It's a very good reminder that 'true' prayer and doing mundane everyday tasks are by no means an either/or venture. Finding God while doing the dishes or driving to work happens too!

[Sarah147]

My RCIA instructor, an older woman that had 5 children and worked as a teacher in a Catholic high school....she said about bringing children to Mass, that you should wait until they are old enough to behave quietly in Church. So, I guess have hubby watch the children at home while you go to Mass, and then switch so he can go to Mass. Or have a relative or babysitter watch them at home.

[andibc]

[quote]Any else here experience a lot of disappointment[/quote]
Yes, thirty years ago [img]http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/b9d357ce413ce5d070e55aa99f28f218c2ec28c.gif[/img]
[quote]...if God does not want the highest level of intimacy possible with me.[/quote]
You cannot imagine the great joy and union with Him that He has planned for you in this life and for all eternity if you stay close to Him!!! Fr. Dubay spoke in his books and on his EWTN show about how we are all called to the heights of contemplative prayer and that he knows of many, many lay people who are in the sixth and seventh mansion. My own spiritual director once told me the same thing.

You have gotten so many lovely responses to your post. There will be sadness and it may come back every once in awhile, but that is just our nature resisting our call. Living a life devoted to Christ on your own is wonderful, just because of the unique challenges of loving Him without the constant support of a community. All people are called to daily prayer and Mass and adoration as often as possible. Don't let anyone discourage you from including those things in your life because they are what will bring you to that deep intimacy in Christ that both you and our Blessed Lord desire.

Throw yourself into whatever vocation you are called to, and if it is married life never for an instant deprive your children of knowing and loving our Lord. Pay no heed to those who tell you not to be a nun in the world. That's not what you will be doing by taking them to daily Mass and adoration. Yes, children can learn to sit quietly from a very young age. With God anything is possible. I see at least a dozen young mothers doing this daily right now and my own children went with me from infancy. If they are noisy, you take them out for a bit. They learn to sit quietly because they do that gradually at home when you pray part or all of the rosary with them. If they are especially disruptive, you leave the older ones in church and stand outside one of the windows to listen, going in for Communion. You can't imagine how terribly romantic that is until you've done it in the snow You will receive an abundance of actual grace for bringing your children to Mass and they will be consoled and taught by the Holy Spirit in their little souls even while you think they are just mindlessly staring at the stained glass windows.

If you are called to motherhood, you will know great consolation in getting up an hour before the children to say the office and meditate. You will also know dryness and disruptions in your prayer, as do those in religious life. When you are discouraged, you will know Christ's presence when you wake yet again to care for your baby or a sick child and you will offer up the fatigue for the religious that you know are up at the same time offering their prayers for the universal church and for you. You will live Matthew 25:31-46 [i]Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you...[/i]" and John 17 will be given to you[i] "And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one..."[/i] You'll learn to turn off the TV and limit phone time so that you have time for spiritual reading after the children are in bed. You will create your own rule and will faithfully follow it without support or encouragement from others because you will be as desperately in love with Jesus as you are right now. Your children will be your flowers to present to Him. They will help you with chores and you'll make use of the crockpot and simple meals so that you all can enjoy Mass, adoration, walks to enjoy God's glorious creation. It's all in how you think about it. They will think like you think.

I have a half dozen or more friends who longed to be a sister or a nun when they were younger. Some have stayed in the single life, more have become mothers. All have consecrated themselves through the de Montfort prayer (consecration means set apart for sacred purposes and is not limited to religious orders) or with the third orders they joined. Many of us have been blessed to see our children enter religious life and the priesthood. One such friend has seven children, three are nuns, one will soon be ordained and the other still has a few years left before ordination. If you are to have children, they will see your deep faith and passionate love of Christ and will want that for themselves.

And regardless of your vocation, or even if you are to be without a spiritual director for awhile, God will constantly provide for your spiritual needs. The Holy Spirit will form you, You will hear something in one of the readings or homily that teaches you just what you need to know to continue on your path to holiness. You'll stumble upon a religious book that will be just what you need to take you a step closer to Our Lord. When you go through very dark times, you'll pull out the writings of St. John of the Cross and you'll discover that you actually understand much of it.

If you haven't done so already, start a novena to recognize what direction our Lord wants you to now take. Set a rule for yourself- daily Mass as often as possible, weekly adoration and confession monthly or more often. Try to find a spiritual director and if you are not able to do so, continue reading the spiritual classics. If you haven't read St. John of the Cross yet, buy Fr. Dubay's book "Fire Within" and start reading at Chapter 3. (the first two chapters are biographies and are more appealing after you've read the book. You life will be on fire with love for God, so continue on your journey with confidence in his merciful love and the knowledge that your life will be filled with the adventure of intimately knowing, loving and serving Him.

[Sarah147]

andibc!!!! Wow! Very spiritual post and great advice! Please post more often.

Edited December 31, 2011 by JoyfulLife